Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« on: July 21, 2019, 06:45:12 PM »
Lots of coverage of the 50th anniversary of the first moon landing. This caught my eye and wondered if there were any FE thoughts

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-49001181

What I thought interesting about this it’s a team in the UK who were tracking a Russian craft in orbit around the moon and listening in to the Apollo 11 astronauts.

This is a team independent of NASA and the Russian space agency and verifying the work of both.

Any thoughts?

If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2019, 12:18:39 AM »
Skies have been blue and clear for almost a week. Yesterday we get announcement of rain middle next week. Chemtrails appear. They will be spraying like crazy next few days. The world is fake fake fake for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2019, 12:04:56 PM »
I don't see how that's a reply to anything I posted.
Here are the quotes from the article:

Quote
Back on Earth, four scientists at Jodrell Bank Observatory in Cheshire were keeping a close ear on events unfolding on the lunar surface - and with good reason.
The Apollo 11 crew were not alone.
Sir Bernard Lovell and his team were officially tracking an unmanned Russian space probe in orbit around the Moon at the same time.
Bob Pritchard, an engineer at Jodrell who was monitoring transmissions, believed the Russians were making a late dash in the space race.
With the giant Lovell radio telescope also tuning in to communications with Apollo 11, Mr Pritchard said they could hear every word.
"You had the voices of the astronauts as they talked to Ground Control and they re-transmitted the voices of Ground Control talking to the astronauts, so we could hear both sides of the conversation."
Mr Pritchard said he did not immediately appreciate the significance of what the team had heard.
"I think it finally struck home when one saw the pictures on television of the astronauts returning to Earth," he said.
"And then you walked out of your house and looked up into the night sky and saw the Moon and said 'Human beings have walked on that Moon' and then you think 'I picked up the signals from them'."

These aren't NASA employees. They don't work for the Russian space agency either.
So are these guys lying? Are they "in on it"?
Or have they been fooled along with the rest of us saps?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2019, 06:46:22 AM »
I have doubts in that story.

Firstly, it was 1969 technology, I have doubts that a smaller UK observatory had too much technical possibilities during that time.

And further, the telemetry data that went back and forth was readable by everybody with the right equipment that wanted to listen to it anyway. I doubt that being in a moon orbit would have given them any advantage.


Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 12:30:51 PM »
think of who profits from this- the Russians, the Brits and the Americans, or more specifically those countries governments. Together they can use these lies to keep their citizens under control.
I don't know how the chaps at Jodrell Bank monitoring a Russian probe or the Apollo manned mission in any way keeps me under control.
What does that mean?
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2019, 12:56:56 PM »
think of who profits from this- the Russians, the Brits and the Americans, or more specifically those countries governments. Together they can use these lies to keep their citizens under control.
I don't know how the chaps at Jodrell Bank monitoring a Russian probe or the Apollo manned mission in any way keeps me under control.
What does that mean?
Maybe it means you are on a flat earth website arguing your point, for what you believe should be readily apparent and indisputable to the masses?

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2019, 01:16:40 PM »
think of who profits from this- the Russians, the Brits and the Americans, or more specifically those countries governments. Together they can use these lies to keep their citizens under control.
I don't know how the chaps at Jodrell Bank monitoring a Russian probe or the Apollo manned mission in any way keeps me under control.
What does that mean?
Maybe it means you are on a flat earth website arguing your point, for what you believe should be readily apparent and indisputable to the masses?
It is indisputable to the masses. flat earthers make up tiny fraction while them very vast majority of people have accepted the earth is a spheroid. The tiny fraction of people that do dispute it really have little to no impact on the masses.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2019, 09:28:50 AM »
The masses have been conditioned , from childhood , to accept the globe earth model without question . We are not presented with any alternative . Truth isn't determined through democracy .

50 years ago it was easy to get to the moon - now we can't get out of low earth orbit . Alarm bells should be ringing .


Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2019, 10:28:13 AM »
think of who profits from this- the Russians, the Brits and the Americans, or more specifically those countries governments. Together they can use these lies to keep their citizens under control.
I don't know how the chaps at Jodrell Bank monitoring a Russian probe or the Apollo manned mission in any way keeps me under control.
What does that mean?
Maybe it means you are on a flat earth website arguing your point, for what you believe should be readily apparent and indisputable to the masses?
It is indisputable to the masses. flat earthers make up tiny fraction while them very vast majority of people have accepted the earth is a spheroid. The tiny fraction of people that do dispute it really have little to no impact on the masses.
Why be on a FET website arguing for something so apparent and indisputable, is the point.

Some might argue that indicates some form of treatment is called for...others might argue that being on call to argue the readily apparent and indisputable point is a clear indication of being under the control of something.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 10:47:58 AM by totallackey »

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2019, 11:48:43 AM »
think of who profits from this- the Russians, the Brits and the Americans, or more specifically those countries governments. Together they can use these lies to keep their citizens under control.
I don't know how the chaps at Jodrell Bank monitoring a Russian probe or the Apollo manned mission in any way keeps me under control.
What does that mean?
Maybe it means you are on a flat earth website arguing your point, for what you believe should be readily apparent and indisputable to the masses?
It is indisputable to the masses. flat earthers make up tiny fraction while them very vast majority of people have accepted the earth is a spheroid. The tiny fraction of people that do dispute it really have little to no impact on the masses.
Why be on a FET website arguing for something so apparent and indisputable, is the point.

Some might argue that indicates some form of treatment is called for...others might argue that being on call to argue the readily apparent and indisputable point is a clear indication of being under the control of something.
Information, curiosity, amusement. I'm not the one disputing the earth's shape, FES is. I am basically 100% certain the earth is spheroid and believe it or not, this website only helped me confirm that certainty. I came, I saw what FES had to say, I disagree with FES's position. I stick around because I find it interesting.

Think of it this way, if a champion boxer is up 30 wins and 0 losses in his career, just because 30 people tried to step up and beat him doesn't mean his championship is questionable. He is still the champion. I see FES as one of the challengers.You tried but you lost. You can continue to argue how you won the fight but if you did, you'd be the champion. That is to say, if FES were right and it all made sense then by god, everyone would be agreeing with you.

Of course I'm still of the opinion that the champion can be beat. there is always that very slight chance however impossible it may seem that the world is actually a big flat disk and that the moon landings didn't happen and space travel isn't real or possible. I think it's more probably that we live in the matrix...
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2019, 12:11:32 PM »
The masses have been conditioned , from childhood , to accept the globe earth model without question . We are not presented with any alternative
Why should we be presented with an alternative? When I was at school I learned that Australia was a continent in the southern hemisphere. I was told that light bends as it goes from air to glass.
I wasn't presented with an "alternative". Why should I be? There is no serious debate about these things. This isn't "conditioning", it's just presenting truth and actually when it come to the thing about light bending I remember us doing an experiment to prove it. When there are areas in science where there is some debate then alternatives are presented. When you have satellites sending back photos of the globe earth, an ISS orbiting it and hundreds of people who have seen it for themselves then no, the matter is settled so no alternative is presented.
Nor should it be.

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Truth isn't determined through democracy

Nor should it be. Truth is truth, you don't get to vote on it.

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50 years ago it was easy to get to the moon - now we can't get out of low earth orbit . Alarm bells should be ringing.

Firstly, it was never easy. Secondly, the space race and the moon landings were the culmination of a decade or so long battle with the Russians. The Russians scored a lot of initial points, first satellite, first dog, for man in space. The Americans then started pumping a LOT of money in to catch up and ultimately overtook them. Here's the NASA budget over time as a percentage of budget.



Absolutely no-one in the US would put up with 4.5% of the government's budget being spent on NASA now, once the first couple of moon landings had been done there was a lot of pressure for NASA to scale back, the last 2 Apollo missions ended up being cancelled. There was huge political will to get this done in the 60s and they spent an astonishing amount to achieve it:
And there were consequences for the astronauts:

https://www.space.com/33571-apollo-astronauts-heart-risk-deep-space-travel.html

So yeah, I can understand there being cautious about going through the Van Allen belts again and with the budget now they're not going to achieve things so quickly. But unmanned probes have been sent out by many nations. India currently have a probe orbiting the moon:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-49404019
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2019, 12:18:23 PM »
Of course, there's an alternative explanation for why NASA is being rapidly scaled down, and why they make less and less big news. Retiring it to obscurity is probably the best move at this point.
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Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2019, 12:45:15 PM »
Think of it this way, if a champion boxer is up 30 wins and 0 losses in his career, just because 30 people tried to step up and beat him doesn't mean his championship is questionable. He is still the champion. I see FES as one of the challengers.You tried but you lost. You can continue to argue how you won the fight but if you did, you'd be the champion. That is to say, if FES were right and it all made sense then by god, everyone would be agreeing with you.
One thing I can't get my head around is someone wanting to check things out for themselves.
(In itself a reasonable, even commendable thing)
The person doing an experiment in which they can, say, see lower than you'd expect on a globe earth.
And instead of thinking "maybe there's some atmospheric effect" or "maybe I miscalculated" or "maybe I suck at doing experiments" thinking "holy shit, the earth is flat!"
That's quite a leap and the implications of it are massive. It involves the finest minds in the last millennium all being wrong and huge conspiracies to fake space travel and therefore somehow presumably fake all the technologies which work because of satellites like GPS and satellite TV to name just two.

To add to the OP, the Australians were "in on it" too.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/apollo-11-50-years-on-a-look-at-australias-role-in-the-moon-landing/
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2019, 01:53:25 PM »
It was incredibly easy to get men to the moon and even easier to bring them back . Did nasa ever do a trial run - launching a rocket from the moon to rendezvous with an orbiting spacecraft ? Nah -no need .

They didn't have to , it was so easy . It called scifi nowadays.

You can't change physical laws to enable rocket engines to produce thrust in a vacuum .



So why is it so hard to put man above earth orbit now ?

Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2019, 01:56:53 PM »
Of course, there's an alternative explanation for why NASA is being rapidly scaled down

Their budget has increased by 22% since 2014.

FY 2014 - $17.6 billion.
FY 2015 - $18.0 billion.
FY 2016 - $19.3 billion
FY 2017 - $19.2 billion.
FY 2018 - $19.5 billion.
FY 2019 - $20.7 billion.

(source https://www.thebalance.com/nasa-budget-current-funding-and-history-3306321)

That was after a few years of cutbacks, admittedly. There's certainly no evidence that it's being rapidly scaled down though in terms of their budget.
My graph was to contrast the level of investment in the 60s when the space race was at its height and investment since that.
Although private companies are sniffing around, SpaceX have been winning contracts to deploy satellites, so there may be less investment in NASA.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2019, 03:00:26 PM »
It was incredibly easy to get men to the moon and even easier to bring them back.
Well no, it wasn't. The first American in space was in 1961, the first man on the moon was 1969. That's 8 years of work with a LOT of money thrown at it, as I showed above it was around 4.5% of the budget of the the entire country at its peak.

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Did nasa ever do a trial run

Yes. They did loads of trial runs.
It was Apollo 11 which went to the moon. Before Apollo there were the Gemini and Mercury programmes.
The other Apollo missions were used to practice all kinds of things needed to get to the moon and yes, including rendezvous.
A whole list here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Apollo_missions#Unmanned_test_missions

Loads of unmanned missions to test the rocket.
Apollo 8 went to the moon.
Apollo 9 tested rendezvous and docking
Apollo 10 tested the same thing but this time at the moon - the LM descended to 8.4 miles from the surface before coming back and docking.
Apollo 11 landed.

So yes, you can see in that list that in incremental stages they tested every thing they could practically test.
On earth they spent hours and hours in simulators testing every conceivable scenario and malfunction.
They spent time practising landing in a device which had rockets which fired to make the craft act as though it was in one 6th gravity. Armstrong famously crashed one, ejecting not long before he did so.
 
So yes. They did lots of trial runs. It wasn't easy.

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You can't change physical laws to enable rocket engines to produce thrust in a vacuum

You don't have to change any physical laws.
https://www.livescience.com/34475-how-do-space-rockets-work-without-air.html

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So why is it so hard to put man above earth orbit now?

It was always hard. And I posted a link above showing the effect of the Apollo missions on the astronauts.
A combination of budget cuts compared with the 1960s, a lack of political will to go back to the moon and a lack of public interest meant the focus has been on other things like unmanned probes, the Shuttle programme and building the ISS. The focus seems to be switching back to the moon again and I'd be very excited if they did go back as there hasn't been a manned mission in my lifetime, and I'm not that young.

Quite honestly, your arguments are a mix of incredulity and ignorance. Read "A Man On The Moon" by Andrew Chaikin if you want to learn more about the Apollo missions.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2019, 03:00:49 PM »
The masses have been conditioned , from childhood , to accept the globe earth model without question . We are not presented with any alternative . Truth isn't determined through democracy .

50 years ago it was easy to get to the moon - now we can't get out of low earth orbit . Alarm bells should be ringing .

Tell that to the folks that deploy geostationary satellites.  Getting to the moon this time will be so much easier than it was in the 60's.   We don't have to invent every single thing this time. 
I don't have to go to the gym, I get all my exercise jumping to conclusions.-sandokhan

Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2019, 03:13:13 PM »
You can't change physical laws to enable rocket engines to produce thrust in a vacuum .

Just to add to my previous post about Newton's Third Law
Here's a video showing this works:

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2019, 03:22:06 PM »
It was incredibly easy to get men to the moon and even easier to bring them back . Did nasa ever do a trial run - launching a rocket from the moon to rendezvous with an orbiting spacecraft ? Nah -no need .

AllAround answered some of this but there is more.   You say it was easy?   Did you know the computers ran programs that were hard-wired.   The wire would pass through a gate to be a One and out of the gate to be a zero.  Does that sound easy?


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You can't change physical laws to enable rocket engines to produce thrust in a vacuum .

This is the crux of the problem with many Flearthers.  A fundamental lack of science comprehension.  How old were you when you first heard that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction?



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So why is it so hard to put man above earth orbit now ?

Orbit is not hard, it's expensive.  The STS shuttle system was a huge mistake and set NASA back decades and 100's of billions.   The US Airforce demanded specifications and features that made the system cost so much more.   Cost overruns and delays that made the system complex and the reusability was too expensive.  Now with private industry that has money to burn we are seeing huge strides in launch vehicles.  Reusable components are a big part of making orbit cost-effective.  There's an old saying "if you get to orbit you are halfway to anywhere". 

The physics behind space flight are pretty simple. 


I don't have to go to the gym, I get all my exercise jumping to conclusions.-sandokhan

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Moon Landing 50th Anniversary.
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2019, 03:31:16 PM »
Their budget has increased by 22% since 2014.
[...]
Sounds like you're describing inflation.
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