#### proponent

• 51
##### I'd like to consult you about something
« on: June 23, 2019, 05:29:24 AM »
Here's the thing:
If the surface of the earth were a sphere, sunrise and sunset would be the rise and fall of the sun from the horizon in view.
So at sunrise or sunset, when a mountain is above the horizon, do the shadows of the mountains have a chance to be cast on some of the clouds behind them that are higher than the mountains?
Because mountains are higher than the horizon, and the sun is below the horizon, this is likely to happen if the surface of the earth is really a sphere.
But if the surface of the earth was flat, and the sun was just circling in the sky, that would never happen, because the sun is always higher than the mountains(Here are the mountains lower than the sun.).
Or, to put it another way, does the sun, at sunrise or sunset, not once illuminate the underside of the clouds and cast shadows over them?It's the same thing as before.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 05:38:01 AM by proponent »

#### Tumeni

• 1887
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2019, 09:49:46 AM »
Here's the thing:
If the surface of the earth were a sphere, sunrise and sunset would be the rise and fall of the sun from the horizon in view.
So at sunrise or sunset, when a mountain is above the horizon, do the shadows of the mountains have a chance to be cast on some of the clouds behind them that are higher than the mountains?

Tumeni says - Yes, you can find pictures of this all over the internut

Because mountains are higher than the horizon, and the sun is below the horizon, this is likely to happen if the surface of the earth is really a sphere.

It does. People have photographed it.

Similar instance occurs when you, the observer, are in darkness, and you see a satellite that is still in sunlight against your night sky...
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2019, 10:39:29 AM »
Here's the thing:
If the surface of the earth were a sphere, sunrise and sunset would be the rise and fall of the sun from the horizon in view.
So at sunrise or sunset, when a mountain is above the horizon, do the shadows of the mountains have a chance to be cast on some of the clouds behind them that are higher than the mountains?

Tumeni says - Yes, you can find pictures of this all over the internut

<<<<<<no,i can't ,if u can ,show it to me plz.

Because mountains are higher than the horizon, and the sun is below the horizon, this is likely to happen if the surface of the earth is really a sphere.

It does. People have photographed it.

Similar instance occurs when you, the observer, are in darkness, and you see a satellite that is still in sunlight against your night sky...
<<<<It's sunset time for me.But the shadows of the eastern clouds are all below. Why?

#### Tumeni

• 1887
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2019, 02:43:35 PM »
It's sunset time for me.But the shadows of the eastern clouds are all below. Why?

Depends on where you are, surely? Are you on high ground? At a coast?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2019, 04:54:36 PM »
It's sunset time for me.But the shadows of the eastern clouds are all below. Why?

Depends on where you are, surely? Are you on high ground? At a coast?
<<<<<You may have misunderstood what I said before, because of the translation software.
What I want to tell you is that I've never seen the sun lighting up the bottom of clouds and casting shadows over them at sunset, in any direction.Even when the sun seems to be shining up from the edge of the clouds in the west, the bottom of those clouds is still a dark shadow state.
What does it matter where I am? Have you seen for yourself a moment when the sun illuminates all the clouds below without darkening them?If so, please show me the photos.If not, isn't there much to say?Right?
I'm just saying things.
------Or I could say, let's say on a mountain top lower than the sun, there's a big table, and nothing covers the bottom of the panel.So at sunrise or sunset, if the surface of the earth is a sphere, and the sun is below the horizon, then there must be a chance for the sun to shine on the bottom of the table, and if it hasn't, then the sun has never been below the horizon.Isn't it?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 05:53:32 PM by proponent »

#### ICanScienceThat

• 328
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2019, 11:29:05 PM »
It's sunset time for me.But the shadows of the eastern clouds are all below. Why?

Depends on where you are, surely? Are you on high ground? At a coast?
<<<<<You may have misunderstood what I said before, because of the translation software.
What I want to tell you is that I've never seen the sun lighting up the bottom of clouds and casting shadows over them at sunset, in any direction.Even when the sun seems to be shining up from the edge of the clouds in the west, the bottom of those clouds is still a dark shadow state.
What does it matter where I am? Have you seen for yourself a moment when the sun illuminates all the clouds below without darkening them?If so, please show me the photos.If not, isn't there much to say?Right?
I'm just saying things.
------Or I could say, let's say on a mountain top lower than the sun, there's a big table, and nothing covers the bottom of the panel.So at sunrise or sunset, if the surface of the earth is a sphere, and the sun is below the horizon, then there must be a chance for the sun to shine on the bottom of the table, and if it hasn't, then the sun has never been below the horizon.Isn't it?
I did a quick image search... here you go.

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2019, 04:50:26 AM »
It's sunset time for me.But the shadows of the eastern clouds are all below. Why?

Depends on where you are, surely? Are you on high ground? At a coast?
<<<<<You may have misunderstood what I said before, because of the translation software.
What I want to tell you is that I've never seen the sun lighting up the bottom of clouds and casting shadows over them at sunset, in any direction.Even when the sun seems to be shining up from the edge of the clouds in the west, the bottom of those clouds is still a dark shadow state.
What does it matter where I am? Have you seen for yourself a moment when the sun illuminates all the clouds below without darkening them?If so, please show me the photos.If not, isn't there much to say?Right?
I'm just saying things.
------Or I could say, let's say on a mountain top lower than the sun, there's a big table, and nothing covers the bottom of the panel.So at sunrise or sunset, if the surface of the earth is a sphere, and the sun is below the horizon, then there must be a chance for the sun to shine on the bottom of the table, and if it hasn't, then the sun has never been below the horizon.Isn't it?
I did a quick image search... here you go.

Thank you for these photos, but you obviously don't know what the problem is, I need to make it clear to you.
The pictures you take are not at the top of the mountain, but somewhere far behind it.
In the case of a distant object that appears to shrink, even a parallel or downward shadow will appear to form an upturned shape.Like the edges of some clouds, the sunlight looks like it's coming up but there's a shadow area at the bottom of the cloud.Because they were not taken at the top of the mountain, they are worthless.
This is what it looks like to people on the ground when an aeroplane is flying at a fairly steady altitude and flying far away: a course that is getting closer and closer to the horizon looks like a downward line.The fact that distant objects seem to shrink is easy to understand, but easy to overlook.

In the second image, it is difficult to tell exactly where the shadows are in the clouds, which are as intricate as a zebra's pattern.So it's not convincing enough.

What I saw with my own eyes yesterday was that the clouds in the sky were very large, floating individually in the sky, so it was easy to tell the shadows from the clouds at the bottom of the clouds at sunset.Even clouds in the east.

Also, don't ignore the hilltop table irradiation experiment. Can the bottom of its table really be illuminated at sunrise or sunset?
You may not be able to see where the shadows of the clouds are on the ground at sunset, or to see them from an airplane.But the mountain top and the table, two conditions, or easy to meet it.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 05:16:03 AM by proponent »

#### ICanScienceThat

• 328
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2019, 05:28:43 AM »
I cannot say I fully understand you.
I thought you were asking about clouds lit from underneath. It is commonly said that this is only possible on a globe, and not possible on a flat Earth.
Here's a time-lapse of one
https://dissolve.com/video/Timelapse-footage-mountain-wave-clouds-lit-below-royalty-free-stock-video-footage/001-D30-27-072
Here's one from shutter stock
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/clouds-lit-orange-hole-punch-cloud-1196345539
Here's one from another photographer
https://chrisbriggs.photoshelter.com/image/I0000fYif4D3XCWw

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking for, but here are some timelapses of sunsets casting shadows on mountains. Watch as the shadow climbs up the mountain. Why is that?
https://www.videoblocks.com/video/time-lapse-of-a-shadow-covering-a-snowy-mountain-peak-during-a-sunset-top-in-austrian-alps-nqahnv6
https://www.videoblocks.com/video/sunset-casting-shadow-on-utah-desert-mountain-bkftzekoliyxmdkib
https://app.nimia.com/video/134967/timelapse-of-evening-glow-amp-casting-shadows-over
And this one is Mt. Everest - the tallest mountain in the world. Ask yourself, what is tall enough to cast a shadow onto Mt. Everest? Doesn't this mean the Sun is somewhere BELOW Mt. Everest? How does that work?
https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/89114972/everest-peak-sunset-himalayas-mountains-time-lapse-zoom-4k.html

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2019, 05:40:48 AM »
I cannot say I fully understand you.
I thought you were asking about clouds lit from underneath. It is commonly said that this is only possible on a globe, and not possible on a flat Earth.
Here's a time-lapse of one
https://dissolve.com/video/Timelapse-footage-mountain-wave-clouds-lit-below-royalty-free-stock-video-footage/001-D30-27-072
Here's one from shutter stock
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/clouds-lit-orange-hole-punch-cloud-1196345539
Here's one from another photographer
https://chrisbriggs.photoshelter.com/image/I0000fYif4D3XCWw

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking for, but here are some timelapses of sunsets casting shadows on mountains. Watch as the shadow climbs up the mountain. Why is that?
https://www.videoblocks.com/video/time-lapse-of-a-shadow-covering-a-snowy-mountain-peak-during-a-sunset-top-in-austrian-alps-nqahnv6
https://www.videoblocks.com/video/sunset-casting-shadow-on-utah-desert-mountain-bkftzekoliyxmdkib
https://app.nimia.com/video/134967/timelapse-of-evening-glow-amp-casting-shadows-over
And this one is Mt. Everest - the tallest mountain in the world. Ask yourself, what is tall enough to cast a shadow onto Mt. Everest? Doesn't this mean the Sun is somewhere BELOW Mt. Everest? How does that work?
<<<<<<That means you're a good thinker, but it can be explained.In the very far north, there are mountains much higher than Mount Qomolangma. They go round the world, and the highest one is as high as the sun.In the center of the world, there is a very tall mountain, which is twice as high as the sun.The world is bigger than you think.
What happens when the sun goes around the center of the world, to the north, when the mountains block out the sun.

https://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/89114972/everest-peak-sunset-himalayas-mountains-time-lapse-zoom-4k.html
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 05:55:23 AM by proponent »

#### ICanScienceThat

• 328
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2019, 04:22:15 PM »
The moderators didn't appreciate my previous response, so I'll post it again in long form.
proponent had posted, "In the very far north, there are mountains much higher than Mount Qomolangma. They go round the world, and the highest one is as high as the sun.In the center of the world, there is a very tall mountain, which is twice as high as the sun.The world is bigger than you think. What happens when the sun goes around the center of the world, to the north, when the mountains block out the sun."

My original response was 100% on topic and extremely concise. I stand by it. Allow me to elaborate.

proponent, your post is interesting (cool), but I do not consider this to be factual (it's a story). I have never heard of a mountain twice as high as the Sun. That would be truly incredible. I believe I would require some evidence of that, but so far you haven't provided anything that I would count as evidence. My intuition tells me that having a deeper, rational discussion with you on this topic would likely be fruitless. Therefore, I am going to wish you well, and disengage semi-politely. I choose not to use any profanity or disparage you directly, but I wish to imply that I consider this line of reasoning to be unsound. I want to make it clear to you that while I respect you as a person, I do not think your logical reasoning techniques are valid (Bro).

As always, if you have an actual question that you'd like an actual answer to, I would be happy to answer it. If you want to delve into fantasy land, enjoy the ride, but I cannot help you there.

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2019, 05:50:42 PM »
The moderators didn't appreciate my previous response, so I'll post it again in long form.
proponent had posted, "In the very far north, there are mountains much higher than Mount Qomolangma. They go round the world, and the highest one is as high as the sun.In the center of the world, there is a very tall mountain, which is twice as high as the sun.The world is bigger than you think. What happens when the sun goes around the center of the world, to the north, when the mountains block out the sun."

My original response was 100% on topic and extremely concise. I stand by it. Allow me to elaborate.

proponent, your post is interesting (cool), but I do not consider this to be factual (it's a story). I have never heard of a mountain twice as high as the Sun. That would be truly incredible. I believe I would require some evidence of that, but so far you haven't provided anything that I would count as evidence. My intuition tells me that having a deeper, rational discussion with you on this topic would likely be fruitless. Therefore, I am going to wish you well, and disengage semi-politely. I choose not to use any profanity or disparage you directly, but I wish to imply that I consider this line of reasoning to be unsound. I want to make it clear to you that while I respect you as a person, I do not think your logical reasoning techniques are valid (Bro).

As always, if you have an actual question that you'd like an actual answer to, I would be happy to answer it. If you want to delve into fantasy land, enjoy the ride, but I cannot help you there.
I fully understand how you feel, and I thought about it before I said it, but I'm just answering your question, and based on what I know, I'm sure not many people are going to tell you this, and I may even be the first person you say you know.
I can't give you your deposition because that's what I read in the book, and the rest of the book, which I've personally proven to be true, so I choose to believe that it's true, and it answers your question, and that's why I'm relaying it to you.
I don't expect you to believe this. I'm sure you don't know that some of the facts I know exist and are not legends.
You may wonder why these mountains in the north, or even in the center of the world, are so high that you can't see them because they are so far away.Their remoteness, in your words, is beyond your imagination.
But it seems to me that you are not unable to imagine, and to say so is to underestimate your imagination.It's just something you've probably never heard of in your life.
If I tell you that the sun and the moon are both cubes, the sun is about 571.2km long, wide and high, and the moon is about 548.8km long, wide and high, they are both about 470400km high.What do you think?
What if I told you that the sun was moving south or north 15 times faster than the moon?
I know you won't trust me easily, and it's the right thing to do.But I just want to tell you what I know, because for me you don't know this, I believe you are a person who wants to know more.
The only reason I can answer your question about shadowing "the highest mountain" knowing you won't believe it easily and that you're right is because I've seen the answer, and it's not what you know it to be.
I showed you that there's no problem if you don't believe me.But if I don't show it, chances are, no one will show it to you or anyone else.That's why I'm telling you at the risk of being labeled a gibberish.
I will respect your opinion and not continue these discussions.My goal of showing you something you haven't heard of has been achieved.Thank you for your participation.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 06:11:54 PM by proponent »

#### Tumeni

• 1887
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2019, 10:35:18 PM »
If I tell you that the sun and the moon are both cubes, the sun is about 571.2km long, wide and high, and the moon is about 548.8km long, wide and high, they are both about 470400km high. What do you think?

Doesn't fit with ANY of the available evidence. Therefore, I think your claim should be rejected. The evidence includes the observations of astronomers, the experiences of those who have taken manned craft around and onto the Moon, the data relayed from unmanned craft which have orbited it and landed upon it, etc. etc.

I just want to tell you what I know, because for me you don't know this, I believe you are a person who wants to know more.

I really don't think you "know" this.

.... I've seen the answer, and it's not what you know it to be.

Yeah, right.

My goal of showing you something you haven't heard of has been achieved.

.. but you haven't SHOWN anything. All you've done is make written claims. No evidence, no 'show'.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2019, 04:02:07 AM »
If I tell you that the sun and the moon are both cubes, the sun is about 571.2km long, wide and high, and the moon is about 548.8km long, wide and high, they are both about 470400km high. What do you think?

Doesn't fit with ANY of the available evidence. Therefore, I think your claim should be rejected. The evidence includes the observations of astronomers, the experiences of those who have taken manned craft around and onto the Moon, the data relayed from unmanned craft which have orbited it and landed upon it, etc. etc.
<<<<<<Yes, it's obviously different from what you know.Of course I know this, but I still choose to relay it to you.They look too far away, which causes them to look round.
There's nothing wrong with you not accepting it. I'm just Posting it to you. It doesn't matter if you make any comments.But others may do the research.

I just want to tell you what I know, because for me you don't know this, I believe you are a person who wants to know more.

I really don't think you "know" this.
<<<<<<Doesn't the same thing happen to you?Don't you choose to believe what others tell you?Don't tell me that you have been to the moon or the sun in your life. Lying has bad results.And I know ordinary people can't go.If I don't “know”, then neither do you.

.... I've seen the answer, and it's not what you know it to be.

Yeah, right.

My goal of showing you something you haven't heard of has been achieved.

.. but you haven't SHOWN anything. All you've done is make written claims. No evidence, no 'show'.
<<<<<<Paraphrase is probably a better word
I've seen some of the more detailed descriptions of the sun, the moon, the earth, the world, and there's even a detailed description of the size of the distance, and it fits the description that the earth is flat, so I paraphrasted it.It could even answer your mountain shadow question, theoretically.
So it serves as a reference.It is the same unproven theory as the idea that the earth is a ball until it is thoroughly investigated by oneself.
Let's leave it at that.thank you.

#### ICanScienceThat

• 328
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2019, 04:28:16 AM »
Tonight I had to go out to the store. It was right around 8pm, and the Sun was setting. I looked up, and there was Mt. Wilson, already in shadow. Right above the mountain, the clouds were still lit. The clouds over Mt. Wilson were pinkish this evening. Out to the West, the clouds were bright yellow and under-lit.

After shopping, I came back out, and the Sun was fully set. And yet, some of the clouds were still bright pink. Not all of them - just some. The HIGH clouds were still lit, but the ones below them were dark. It was beautiful and amazing. Right there in the evening sky was all the evidence you should ever need. The clouds nearest me were dark, the clouds higher up were bright, and the Sun was hidden behind the horizon.

I was struck by just how easy it is to go out and see these things for yourself. All you have to do is look.

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2019, 04:45:18 AM »
Tonight I had to go out to the store. It was right around 8pm, and the Sun was setting. I looked up, and there was Mt. Wilson, already in shadow. Right above the mountain, the clouds were still lit. The clouds over Mt. Wilson were pinkish this evening. Out to the West, the clouds were bright yellow and under-lit.

After shopping, I came back out, and the Sun was fully set. And yet, some of the clouds were still bright pink. Not all of them - just some. The HIGH clouds were still lit, but the ones below them were dark. It was beautiful and amazing. Right there in the evening sky was all the evidence you should ever need. The clouds nearest me were dark, the clouds higher up were bright, and the Sun was hidden behind the horizon.

I was struck by just how easy it is to go out and see these things for yourself. All you have to do is look.
<<<<<<I suggest you look at it more often, and as you look at it, remember that things that are far away have been shrunk.In any Angle.
And then maybe one day, you'll have a fresh perspective.

#### ICanScienceThat

• 328
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2019, 04:59:05 AM »
Hey this is the Flat Earth Society, so if you want to believe it's flat, I won't tell you different.
On the other hand, when you're ready to learn how perspective works, I'm here for you.

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2019, 05:11:48 AM »
Hey this is the Flat Earth Society, so if you want to believe it's flat, I won't tell you different.
On the other hand, when you're ready to learn how perspective works, I'm here for you.
thank you ~But maybe you just expect to see perspective in a horizontal direction, not in all directions, which is possible.
It's also possible that you're looking at these sunsets and clouds without thinking about them.
Perspective isn't complicated, it's just easy to ignore.
I'm ready to wrap up all the discussion. Thank you for your participation.

#### Tumeni

• 1887
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2019, 07:05:04 AM »
Yes, it's obviously different from what you know.

So what evidence do you have that might support what you say?

Of course I know this, but I still choose to relay it to you.

You know... what?

They look too far away, which causes them to look round.

They "look round" because they ARE round. When you look at them with the naked eye, when you look at them with binoculars or telescopes, when someone sends a remote spacecraft to orbit or land, when someone sends a manned craft, or places a satellite within viewing range...

There's nothing wrong with you not accepting it. I'm just Posting it to you. It doesn't matter if you make any comments.But others may do the research.

Research into WHAT?  Exactly what research have YOU done into square planets?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

#### proponent

• 51
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2019, 07:34:11 AM »
Yes, it's obviously different from what you know.

So what evidence do you have that might support what you say?
<<<<<<I have said that I have no proof, that I am paraphrasing a book, that some of the book's content that I personally experienced is true, so I choose to believe that it may be true and paraphrase it.

Of course I know this, but I still choose to relay it to you.

You know... what?
<<<<<<I mean I know the status of your reply.

They look too far away, which causes them to look round.

They "look round" because they ARE round. When you look at them with the naked eye, when you look at them with binoculars or telescopes, when someone sends a remote spacecraft to orbit or land, when someone sends a manned craft, or places a satellite within viewing range...
<<<<<<I can give you an example to help you understand why a cube looks like a circle from a distance.
All you have to do is look at a distant cube from a mountaintop,or somewhere else. in proportion to the size of the cube I gave you.
If what you see is not a circle, or it may not be as big as the sun or moon you see on the ground.then I am happy to admit that I am wrong and you are right.

The cube has length, width and height of 51, or 49.Look at it at a distance of 42,000.According to this ratio.

There's nothing wrong with you not accepting it. I'm just Posting it to you. It doesn't matter if you make any comments.But others may do the research.

Research into WHAT?  Exactly what research have YOU done into square planets?
<<<<<<The purpose of my paraphrase is to serve as a reference for those who would like to explore the heights and shapes of the sun and moon.
Just because you might not do something doesn't mean someone else won't do it.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 08:04:03 AM by proponent »

#### Bikini Polaris

• 142
##### Re: I'd like to consult you about something
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2019, 08:15:48 AM »
<<<<<<I can give you an example to help you understand why a cube looks like a circle from a distance.
All you have to do is look at a distant cube from a mountaintop,or somewhere else. in proportion to the size of the cube I gave you.
If what you see is not a circle, or it may not be as big as the sun or moon you see on the ground.then I am happy to admit that I am wrong and you are right.

The cube has length, width and height of 51, or 49.Look at it at a distance of 42,000.According to this ratio.

Proponent I think it isn't so difficult to reproduce what you're saying at home (or in your garden). If you could also do a small showcase of the perspective of shadows, it would be really really great. REs are boring people and lazy asses, so unfortunately it's up to you to put forward the experiments. But those being good, I'm sure they'll be included in the wiki.
Quote from: Pete Svarrior
these waves of smug RE'ers are temporary. Every now and then they flood us for a year or two in response to some media attention, and eventually they peter out. In my view, it's a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".