Gravity

TodaysPythagoras · « **on:** April 28, 2019, 07:31:17 AM »

If the earth is constantly accelerating upwards at 9.8 meters per second squared, then how come planes are able to take off or helicopters able to hover? Genuinely curious.

Dr David Thork · « **Reply #1 on:** April 28, 2019, 12:12:20 PM »

For the same reason that if the earth is spinning at 1000mph, planes and helicopters aren't instantly supersonic the moment they leave the surface.

TodaysPythagoras · « **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2019, 02:13:56 PM »

"When you jump, your upward velocity is for a moment, greater than the Earth's so you rise above it. But after a few moments, the Earth's increasing velocity due to its acceleration eventually catches up." This would mean once a plane levels out at 36,000 ft, the Earth would eventually catch up to it. The plane never tilts up after its leveled out to compensate for the upward momentum of Earth. Therefore, according to the Flat Earth Society logic, the Earth would catch up to the plane.

Dr David Thork · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2019, 02:17:20 PM »

Again, the air surrounding the aircraft is moving WITH the earth.

TodaysPythagoras · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2019, 02:19:46 PM »

Then the same logic should apply when I jump. The air should be moving with the earth and I shouldn't hit the ground.

QED · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2019, 03:01:07 PM »

Yes, and now we are back to the point in the conversation where Tom and I left off.

An accelerating plane does not recreate the conditions we observe every day on a rotating globe.

TodaysPythagoras · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2019, 03:06:35 PM »

Exactly. Logic dictates, by their own explanation, that a plane would be hit by the earth's upward momentum.

Dr David Thork · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2019, 03:29:50 PM »

Quote from: TodaysPythagoras on April 28, 2019, 02:19:46 PM

Then the same logic should apply when I jump. The air should be moving with the earth and I shouldn't hit the ground.

So you are the same as an aircraft? You have wings?

The reason you fall to earth is that you fall THROUGH the air that travels with the earth. An aircraft does not. It flies.

Quote from: TodaysPythagoras on April 28, 2019, 03:06:35 PM

Exactly. Logic dictates, by their own explanation, that a plane would be hit by the earth's upward momentum.

Logic? Don't confuse your poor powers of reasoning with an irrefutable paradigm like logic. Logic means that all the relevant information is known to form a conclusion. You don't know your arse from your elbow. Junk in, junk out.

TodaysPythagoras · « **Reply #8 on:** April 28, 2019, 03:35:37 PM »

That is not what the flat earth society website says. I quote, "When you jump, your upward velocity is for a moment, greater than the Earth's so you rise above it. But after a few moments, the Earth's increasing velocity due to its acceleration eventually catches up." This doesn't say I fall through the air. It says the earth catches up to me.

Dr David Thork · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2019, 03:50:19 PM »

Because you don't travel up with the earth and the air. An aircraft is designed to hold its altitude above the earth using those large things sicking out of either side. Aerospace professionals call them wings.

TodaysPythagoras · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2019, 03:53:08 PM »

They use the wings to maintain flight in a horizontal manner. Air travels under the wings to generate lift. This would mean they would need to adjust the plane upwards to compensate for the rising earth which they do not.

Dr David Thork · « **Reply #11 on:** April 28, 2019, 04:06:42 PM »

No, because the earth pushes the air up with it. This stops the earth leaving the air behind. If the air didn't get pushed up, all the air would be on the ground and you'd need to put your nose on the floor to breathe.

Again, the air is accelerating up at 9.8m/s as it is being pushed up by the earth. When stood on the ground, you are also being pushed up by the earth. But ... you are heavier than air, and so you fall through the air back to the ground when you leave it. This is because you are not a bird and buoyancy is a bitch.

Aircraft have wings. I can't believe I have had to write that 4 times already. And that means they have a way to maintain their altitude. But you do not have wings and you fall out of the sky. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to dumb this down any more for you, so put your finger on the screen and run it under the words saying them out loudly to give yourself a better chance of understanding.

TodaysPythagoras · « **Reply #12 on:** April 28, 2019, 04:15:14 PM »

If the earth is pushing the air up with it, then the air would all come down to the earth. If the air doesn't have it's own natural acceleration, then it cannot remain above the earth. If you wave your hand up air falls down the sides of it. This is what would happen in the scenario you just described.

TodaysPythagoras · « **Reply #13 on:** April 28, 2019, 04:17:35 PM »

If the air isn't pushing down on the Earth, then there is no force holding us to the ground. The air force down would be what holds us to the ground in your theory, but it can't if it's all moving up.

Dr David Thork · « **Reply #14 on:** April 28, 2019, 04:22:49 PM »

So why is the sea, not all squashed on the sea bed?

Oh, because a partial of sea water sits on another and on another and on another all the way from the sea floor to the surface. This means high pressure on the sea floor and lower pressure as you go up. The atmosphere is the same. Air is a fluid (hence why aerodynamics study fluid dynamics). Air sits on air sits on air with the air at the surface being at the highest pressure ... 1 atmosphere.

But you weigh more than air. You sink. You weigh less than sea water ... you float. If I put you on the sea bed, your rancid corpse would travel upwards. If I filled you full of helium and blew you up to about 20 meters across, you'd float upwards in the air.

Hot air balloons float. Lead weights do not. Aircraft have wings. They push air downwards and because of Newton's theory, therefore they go up.

TodaysPythagoras · « **Reply #15 on:** April 28, 2019, 04:41:37 PM »

If you are correct, then you need to contact the people who run the Flat Earth Society website because that isn't explained. Back to your argument anyways. Then an equivalent constant downward force around a sphere could hold the air on it without squishing water. In fact everything would remain as you described it.

TodaysPythagoras · « **Reply #16 on:** April 28, 2019, 04:44:30 PM »

The force of that gravitational pull would be able to hold everything around a sphere down until the force of the gravity is weakest. Once you've exited the gravitational pull from the spherical earth your in space.

Dr David Thork · « **Reply #17 on:** April 28, 2019, 04:50:00 PM »

One of two things happened there.

Either you have just written the most intelligent and brilliant thing ever uttered and I am not smart enough to understand it. Or we have plunged to new depths and I would be able to garner a more intelligent conversation from an ocean sponge. Either way, I am unable to adjust my IQ by the full 100 points in either direction required to be able to assist you any further.

rodriados · « **Reply #18 on:** April 28, 2019, 04:51:20 PM »

This "rising up" Earth is totally non-sense, honestly. If we were, indeed, accelerating upwards, then we would experience constant winds coming down from above.

It's as simple as this, and TodaysPythagoras mentioned it. If you need to create exceptions to your rules without an explanation to do so, then your model is fluked.

Dr David Thork · « **Reply #19 on:** April 28, 2019, 04:53:14 PM »

Quote from: rodriados on April 28, 2019, 04:51:20 PM

This "rising up" Earth is totally non-sense, honestly. If we were, indeed, accelerating upwards, then we would experience constant winds coming down from above.

This is exactly like saying "if the earth is spinning at 1000mph, we would be unable to stand in the supersonic crosswinds.

As I said in my very first reply. You can't apply double standards. If its good for the goose, it is good for the gander.