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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Update: Earth-Moon-Sun Trajectory equations
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2019, 02:46:12 AM »
A random source? Perhaps random for you, but not for us. The derivations and discussions contained therein are canonical. You can find them in just about every physics course and every textbook. The fact that they strike you as random underlines your naivety in this area, I suppose. The equations make a working heliocentric model in every appearance they make. That is their function.

Please quote for us where it has been used to make a working system.

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Offline QED

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Re: Update: Earth-Moon-Sun Trajectory equations
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2019, 02:53:01 AM »
A random source? Perhaps random for you, but not for us. The derivations and discussions contained therein are canonical. You can find them in just about every physics course and every textbook. The fact that they strike you as random underlines your naivety in this area, I suppose. The equations make a working heliocentric model in every appearance they make. That is their function.

Please quote for us where it has been used to make a working system.

Every graphing calculator that has ever plotted them. Try it. Don’t have one? They have em online - free to use.
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

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Offline QED

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Re: Update: Earth-Moon-Sun Trajectory equations
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2019, 12:34:15 PM »
For those FEers who care to see these equations in action, and do not want to bother learning anything, I found someone who programmed this all using BASIC, and hard coded the numbers needed to see it.

Now you can just run the code.

https://stjarnhimlen.se/comp/tutorial.html

Tom - I’ve made it as easy as possible for you, so no more absurd deflections or denials from you today.

We call this the end of the rope, mate.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2019, 11:25:58 PM by QED »
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

- Pete Svarrior

Re: Update: Earth-Moon-Sun Trajectory equations
« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2019, 03:56:04 PM »
Quote
You have made reference to literally nothing which says or suggests that the three body sun-earth-moon problem can exist as a stable system.
Can you just clarify what you mean by a stable system?  The Moon has been orbiting the Earth and the Earth orbiting the Sun for billions of years.  Is that not evidence of a stable system?

You can see that the Moon is in orbit around the Earth just by observing it with your own eyes. As the Moon moves eastwards against the stars and the phase pattern matches the increasing and then decreasing angular elongation between the Sun and the Moon during the course of a month so natural and logical conclusion to come to is that the Moon is in orbit around the Earth. 

It might be the case that the 3 body problem has never been solved on a piece of paper but it sure seems to be working in the sky. So long as we can predict exactly where the Moon and Sun are going to be at any one moment during any year then why is it significant if an unsolved 3 body problem an issue to you?  You want evidence.  The sky is your source of evidence.  You can see what I and everyone else can see. If ancient astronomers could figure it out using nothing more than their own eyes then I'm sure we can give it a go as well.

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Offline EarthNotFlat

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Re: Update: Earth-Moon-Sun Trajectory equations
« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2019, 04:27:31 PM »
Quote
You have made reference to literally nothing which says or suggests that the three body sun-earth-moon problem can exist as a stable system.
Can you just clarify what you mean by a stable system?  The Moon has been orbiting the Earth and the Earth orbiting the Sun for billions of years.  Is that not evidence of a stable system?

You can see that the Moon is in orbit around the Earth just by observing it with your own eyes. As the Moon moves eastwards against the stars and the phase pattern matches the increasing and then decreasing angular elongation between the Sun and the Moon during the course of a month so natural and logical conclusion to come to is that the Moon is in orbit around the Earth. 

It might be the case that the 3 body problem has never been solved on a piece of paper but it sure seems to be working in the sky. So long as we can predict exactly where the Moon and Sun are going to be at any one moment during any year then why is it significant if an unsolved 3 body problem an issue to you?  You want evidence.  The sky is your source of evidence.  You can see what I and everyone else can see. If ancient astronomers could figure it out using nothing more than their own eyes then I'm sure we can give it a go as well.

Even tho Im a round earther, I have to be fair about this, the fact that ancient astronomers could figure it out isnt totally true, Ptolemy, for example, believed in the geocentric model.

I do agree on all of your other points tho
Earth is not flat.

Re: Update: Earth-Moon-Sun Trajectory equations
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2019, 08:03:37 PM »
To clarify my point about ancient astronomers. I mean the likes of Aristarchus who did a pretty good job for their time at working out things such as the Moon being a lot nearer and a lot smaller than the Sun. He deduced that from observing the position of the Moon relative to the Sun at the time of the first quarter Moon for example.

With the limited knowledge that existed during classical times it was not unreasonable that there would be various theories and models about the nature of the heavens. Ptolemys geocentric ideas were based on the 'seeing is believing' approach as he watched the heavens moving and not apparently the Earth itself. Subsequent observations by the likes of Galileo and others provided the direct evidence that the Earth was not in fact stationary.