FEM
« on: April 08, 2019, 11:19:00 AM »
Flat Earth Media is a reasonable idea for a part of this site but, IMO it is poorly executed.

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"The purpose of this board is to create a community-driven repository of media relating to the Flat Earth Society or Flat Earth Theory."

Gotcha

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Please note that this board is generally not intended for in-depth discussion of the materials linked. If you'd like to engage in more than a brief exchange, please create a thread in the appropriate board

Hmm. But...it's in a section of the forum called "Flat Earth Discussion Boards"
You see how that could confuse a stupid person? I can't see the point in a section of the forum where things can be posted but not debated, it doesn't make sense to have to create an effectively duplicate thread in another section for that discussion.

Also, at the moment some discussion of the video is allowed but some gets moved to AR when it isn't either A or R, it's just discussion.
The moderation around this is not consistent.

I think the FEM section is fine but discussion about the videos posted should be allowed. If the video is deemed to be of sufficient quality/usefulness to be thought worthy of adding to a library/repository of FEM then that should be done but that repository should be elsewhere. I'd have thought the Wiki would be a more appropriate place than any of the forums.

At the moment there is no way of distinguishing FEM from any of the other fora yet it's said to be for a different purpose. A lot of people are finding this confusing. I believe my suggestion would help.

Discuss.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Online Pete Svarrior

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Re: FEM
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2019, 01:26:01 PM »
The point of FEM in its current form is to provide a working repository while keeping staff effort manageable. It's no secret that there are more things that need to be done than there are things that actually get done, and while I'd like to think that we prioritise things fairly well and keep things running smoothly, adding more to that pile would not help. A Wiki repository or something external would suffer from the same issue. That is, of course, unless someone new was going to take this on as a personal project and maintain it.

You don't have to like it, or agree with it. You have the simple option of not using it. As it stands, it appears to be (correctly) used by quite a few posters, so I have to surmise it's a useful feature.

To my observation, the vast majority of posters have found the right balance of commentary, and thread splits are relatively rare. Yes, it's not ideal, but it will sort itself out over time. If anything, it's the posters who struggle to differentiate between FEI (question authority, primarily RET) and FET (question FET) that pose a real problem. I worry that your alternative would simply provide these people with yet another board to repeatedly post "if the Earth is flat then why is it round????" in, while effectively killing a useful media repo.

I see your point about FEM (and FEP) being in the "discussion boards" category when they are not intended as discussion boards - that's silly. I'd be in favour of creating a separate category to hopefully enhance clarity of purpose.

AR and CN are the garbage dumpster. If you think of it as anything else, stop doing that. I will not waste my time on you crying about the fact that you'd rather have your posts moved to the food waste bin than general refuse.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 01:36:58 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: FEM
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2019, 08:52:02 PM »
You don't have to like it, or agree with it. You have the simple option of not using it.

Sure, but the raison d'etre of this section is to make suggestions, so I'm making one. A response of "well if you don't like it then you don't have to use it" is not a helpful response.

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As it stands, it appears to be (correctly) used by quite a few posters, so I have to surmise it's a useful feature.

Is it, though? Just looking at the first page of that board right now, 6 of the topics have been moved, another 3 don't contain any links to a video and thus don't even belong in that section. 2 recent threads in AR are there because you felt the need to split or move FEM posts.
I'd suggest the section is not consistently used for the purpose you intend.

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I worry that your alternative would simply provide these people with yet another board to repeatedly post "if the Earth is flat then why is it round????" in, while effectively killing a useful media repo.

Possibly, but if you're going to open up this place to us globetards then that comes with the territory.

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I see your point about FEM (and FEP) being in the "discussion boards" category when they are not intended as discussion boards - that's silly. I'd be in favour of creating a separate category to hopefully enhance clarity of purpose.

That sounds sensible.

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AR and CN are the garbage dumpster. If you think of it as anything else, stop doing that. I will not waste my time on you crying about the fact that you'd rather have your posts moved to the food waste bin than general refuse.
Oh bad luck. You were so close to a whole post without you being a dick but, there it is.
I'm not "crying" about anything although while we're in S&C, maybe a 3rd "waste bin" called, well maybe that is what it should be called would make sense.
I like AR a lot. But IMO it should be used for...well AR, and not used as catch all for anything you don't think belongs in the upper fora. I don't care much about that, but if I ruled the world, which strangely I don't, then that's what I'd do.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Re: FEM
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2019, 10:58:08 PM »
A response of "well if you don't like it then you don't have to use it" is not a helpful response.
Yes, from your perspective it probably isn't, because it doesn't give you what you want. Nonetheless, the rationale stands, and the obvious solution of "if you, unlike others, don't like it, you don't have to use it" is the only one available.

Is it, though? Just looking at the first page of that board right now, 6 of the topics have been moved, another 3 don't contain any links to a video and thus don't even belong in that section. 2 recent threads in AR are there because you felt the need to split or move FEM posts.
5* threads moved in a quarter of a year is nothing compared to the rest of the forum - if anything, this substantiates my point succinctly.

We can take this one step further by actually looking at the threads. We have:
So, let's summarise. We've got three newbies making mistakes, one regular who made a mistake but had a hunch that this might be the case (not a problem, we'll happily re-jig threads around when necessary), and one thread which didn't belong in FEM for reasons that are difficult to formally legislate ("no mentally-ill trolls with large followings allowed"?). I fail to see the problem here. The amount of time you've wasted here has already exceeded the workload of maintaining that board for those 3 months.

Also, thank you for pointing out that manicminer has been misbehaving again. Next time, please use the mod report function instead of hoping that I'll notice an off-hand remark in a thread.

Possibly, but if you're going to open up this place to us globetards then that comes with the territory.
No, it doesn't. And that's exactly why FEM should stay the way it is right now. Thank you, however, for admitting that this is exactly what you were after. Now we know not to treat this suggestion too seriously.

Would it be helpful if we revoked your ability to post in that board, or even to view it altogether? Clearly, the issue is not with people you so derogatorily call "globetards", but with you. Normally I only extend this offer to CN/AR when its existence offends people's sensibilities, but I'm sure we can pull some strings to make it happen.

Oh bad luck. You were so close to a whole post without you being a dick but, there it is.
A friendly reminder that you're currently posting in the upper fora. Since you're currently sitting on a final warning, I'm going to ask you very politely, and extremely unofficially, to behave.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 11:25:46 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: FEM
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2019, 08:12:04 AM »
A friendly reminder that you're currently posting in the upper fora. Since you're currently sitting on a final warning, I'm going to ask you very politely, and extremely unofficially, to behave.
Noted, but your tone really is awful and, frankly, unmodlike. If that's a word.

I see FEM as an issue for the reasons I've outlined. It's in a section of the forum which encourages people to debate the videos posted. And the moderation around how much debate you allow about submissions is not consistent. And actually yes, I do want to debate the videos posted because this is a forum. If people think the video posted is full of nonsense argument and things which are just plain incorrect then yes, I do think they have a right to say that - so long a they explain why and the post isn't just a "nuh-uh".

This was a friendly suggestion made in the spirit of making this place better. You don't have to action it but your hostile, suspicious tone is unhelpful.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Re: FEM
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2019, 01:03:50 PM »
It's in a section of the forum which encourages people to debate the videos posted.
Purely by your own interpretation, and, from the evidence you proposed, it does not look like people are actually confused by this. Nonetheless, shuffling FEM and FEP to a separate category could be a reasonable move. I'll add it to my lowest-of-low-priority list.

If people think the video posted is full of nonsense argument and things which are just plain incorrect then yes, I do think they have a right to say that - so long a they explain why and the post isn't just a "nuh-uh".
They do, and the steps towards doing so correctly are outlined in READ BEFORE POSTING: Welcome to Flat Earth Media!

And the moderation around how much debate you allow about submissions is not consistent.
You said this multiple times now, but only as an off-hand remark. It sounds like your perception of moderation is the actual crux of the issue here. Of course, you haven't considered the possibility that we are being consistent, and that you simply didn't understand the criteria (we've seen evidence to that effect before). So, perhaps instead of making sneaky accusations, you could simply ask me a question, preferably via PM since I doubt this merits a thread.

You also mistake me stating things as a matter of fact for hostility. You've shown yourself to struggle to understand why things work they way they do around here. You mistake explanations for hostility, and when you don't get what you want, you engage in a tirade of obtuse behaviour and time-wasting. This thread is an excellent example - I disproved your claims by actually looking at the threads you brought up, so you're ignoring that claim and instead focusing on a whole new approach. Anything to keep the non-issue alive, anything to pretend there's something to discuss here.

This is an observation, and not one intended as an insult. If you do not want to be perceived in this way, you can consider no longer doing that.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 01:07:02 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Re: FEM
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2019, 03:12:14 PM »
Is there any way you can automatically lock the threads in that section the moment they are created?
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Re: FEM
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2019, 03:40:06 PM »
Yes, we could disable the ability to respond to threads entirely. But isn't that a bit heavy-handed? It sounds like people are looking for a solution to a problem which doesn't exist - a tiny handful of posts getting moved over an extended period of time.
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