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Offline Jeppspace

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Re: NASA's misinformation
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2019, 08:49:24 PM »
I don't think anyone here thinks they're "actors"... liars yes, but even scientists can lie.

Take for example, Nasa.

Proof of these lies, please... merely saying they CAN lie is not proof of a lie.

I suggest you browse the forums for that data.

If any government wishes to order a court summons for voicing this opinion, I suggest they print it on flat paper.
Anyone who would pay Richard Branson hundreds of thousands of dollars for the visual confirmation that we are all doomed to the unforgiving abyss of space, definitely deserves to know that.

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Offline ChrisTP

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Re: NASA's misinformation
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2019, 08:49:56 AM »
I don't think anyone here thinks they're "actors"... liars yes, but even scientists can lie.

Take for example, Nasa.

Proof of these lies, please... merely saying they CAN lie is not proof of a lie.

I suggest you browse the forums for that data.

If any government wishes to order a court summons for voicing this opinion, I suggest they print it on flat paper.
That 'data' you refer to is some people on the internet saying that astronauts are clearly in water or it's all clearly cgi, or there's clearly a harness holding them up yet when I see these videos and photos they refer to I don't see any of that... Not even remotely. The only thing I've seen is the claim of cgi 'glitches' which are just lossy compression videos and photos.

One photo in particular where flat earthers claimed nasa photoshopped in a moon just so happened to have been edited which was explicitly stated on the nasa website that they just added some brightness to make the photo a little clearer and pleasing... Yet you have people like Tom creaming that it is obvious that they photoshopped in a moon (despite that same website having the original photo as well as the edited one). Another photo where nasa supposedly photoshopped in a moon just so happens to be an edited photo from the internet using a NASA photo as the source, so it wasn't even nasa, just trolls.

You have people here claiming astronauts are held up by cables yet point to videos where there are no cables. You get people here pointing to 'bubbles flying about during space walks' as if it's impossible for little bits to be floating around in space. People here claim that zero gravity is just on a plane diving down to earth, as if they could make a 50 minute video exploring the ISS with no cuts or transitions to the video on a <1 minute plane dive. Heck there are even people that outright deny the ISS exists despite the fact you can see it with your own eyes. People here claim the moon landings are faked just because they don't trust nasa, not because there's any actual evidence of fakery. Even the Tesla car that got launched into space recently people claimed fake because "you can see the studio they were filming in seconds before the cgi space background appears", which couldn't possibly have been the car sitting inside the rocket, right? NASA training their astronauts in pools is also not evidence of fakery either, in case anyone throws that in. Let's not forget how people also think that Curiosity is actually on earth, even though no one has ever ventured out to the part of the world they think NASA are filming on with the rover. Funny how no one has come across NASA actually doing that here on earth secretly, despite being out in the open.


Anyway you get my point. You have every right to not trust NASA and every right to be sceptical of all other space agencies if you want but your lack of trust is not equal to evidence that NASA lie. This is why above I quoted someone and said "allegedly". because all these claims that NASA are liars are just all opinion based, not factual. I'd suggest before claiming anyone are liars, claim with hard evidence otherwise that claim makes you the liar. Flat earthers most certainly do have an agenda, they NEED NASA to be fake if they're to believe the earth is flat. wanting NASA to be fake doesn't make them fake though.

Of all my time here the only people I've seen giving misinformation are flat earthers.

Re: NASA's misinformation
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2019, 09:42:38 AM »
These sorts of conversations usually go:

RE: NASA have just done ...
FE: Faaake!
RE: Do you have any evidence of fakery?
FE: The burden of proof is on NASA, not us!

And the last point is sorta true, if I claim to have done something extrodinary then it is up to me to evidence that. I guess NASA - and other space agencies - don't really feel the need to do anything beyond the endless photos and video they've taken from space, the fact that now hundreds of people have been to space and witnessed it for themselves and rockets demonstrably exist. That is the evidence for what they've done. What else can they reasonably do? Yes, of course all this could be faked, all the astronauts could be liars. But surely if there was fraud on this scale there would be some evidence of that. The best "evidence" you get are vague assertions about "bubbles" or "wires" which are certainly not definitive and the assertions are always made by people with a conspiracy theory mindset who have no expertise in photo and video analysis.

The assertion seems to be that NASA are simultaneously competent enough to fake these things with sufficient quality to fool the majority of the population and incompetent enough that the fakery can be spotted by amateurs with no training in photo or video analysis.

And, of course, NASA may be the poster boys for space travel but there are multiple space agencies across the globe now and private companies launching stuff into space. Plus there's the ISS which is visible from earth, technologies like GPS and satellite TV which demonstrably work, weather satellites etc etc. The idea that none of this technology really exists and is all being faked somehow is ludicrous. But it pretty much has to be if you're going to maintain belief in a FE.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline QED

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Re: NASA's misinformation
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2019, 11:41:01 AM »
I believe NASA has met their burden of proof. It is of course up to the individual to reject NASA’s evidence.

However, if some one makes a positive claim, such as: NASA’s evidence is FAKE, then they do have a burden to prove this. All positive claims have a burden of proof.

Hence, it is logically erroneous to state that all evidence is fake/fraudulent until proven otherwise. You can dismiss the evidence as unconvincing to YOU, but you don’t get a free pass to just claim anything is fake by default.

I am basing these statements on the rules of inductive, deductive, propositional, and syllogistic logic, as well as the standards of soundness, validity, and argumentation used in science.
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

Tom Bishop

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Offline Jeppspace

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Re: NASA's misinformation
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2019, 01:11:36 PM »
Interesting points all round there.

I guess I am a little sensitive, but this is a Flat Earth forum, where people like myself who believe something quite contrary to the television, come to feel appreciated amongst like minded people who all quite naturally share the same opinion.

I don't personally expect the world to suddenly drop everything they are doing and shout "the world is flat", but neither do I expect the world to just spin blindly into a black hole of indoctrinated terror.

Whilst I don't believe the word of God was penned by the hand of a four armed elephant, in regards to my religious rights, my shoulders are likewise straight, with no burden upon them.

Tidings.
Anyone who would pay Richard Branson hundreds of thousands of dollars for the visual confirmation that we are all doomed to the unforgiving abyss of space, definitely deserves to know that.

: Infinite ¥ : Szion = : Plane