[Nareik]

 Hi.

So I have spent a whole lot of my life in the wilderness navigating with map and compass. I always find my way. I am very confident in reading the topography of the maps and comparing it with my visual surroundings. However sometimes there are no visuals, snow, fog heavy rain etc. I also sometimes have a GPS to control my position if I get insecure, escpecially in the wintee. But I have never ever gotten lost. But if the earth is flat, does that mean that my maps are fake? And how does the compass work? Its a bit confusing to me.

Thanks for clarification.

[Mysfit]

Maps for relatively small areas should be the same for both earths. Larger distances are where the problem lies. Your compass is also fine.

[TomFoolery]

Hi.

So I have spent a whole lot of my life in the wilderness navigating with map and compass. I always find my way. I am very confident in reading the topography of the maps and comparing it with my visual surroundings. However sometimes there are no visuals, snow, fog heavy rain etc. I also sometimes have a GPS to control my position if I get insecure, escpecially in the wintee. But I have never ever gotten lost. But if the earth is flat, does that mean that my maps are fake? And how does the compass work? Its a bit confusing to me.

Thanks for clarification.

Yeah, a magnetic compass works fine on a flat earth and works with the map so you'd be just fine all over the world with a map and compass.

[Nareik]

Hi.

So I have spent a whole lot of my life in the wilderness navigating with map and compass. I always find my way. I am very confident in reading the topography of the maps and comparing it with my visual surroundings. However sometimes there are no visuals, snow, fog heavy rain etc. I also sometimes have a GPS to control my position if I get insecure, escpecially in the wintee. But I have never ever gotten lost. But if the earth is flat, does that mean that my maps are fake? And how does the compass work? Its a bit confusing to me.

Thanks for clarification.

Yeah, a magnetic compass works fine on a flat earth and works with the map so you'd be just fine all over the world with a map and compass.

Well, a magnetic compass (wich we use) needs a magnetic North and South pole to work. How would you explain this? Am I mistanken?

Also a map is more then a topographical drawing. It's creates through a geographical survey. With a map and compass I can pinpoint my location and get the more or less exact cordinates. This I can confirm with my GPS. How is this?

[TomFoolery]

Hi.

So I have spent a whole lot of my life in the wilderness navigating with map and compass. I always find my way. I am very confident in reading the topography of the maps and comparing it with my visual surroundings. However sometimes there are no visuals, snow, fog heavy rain etc. I also sometimes have a GPS to control my position if I get insecure, escpecially in the wintee. But I have never ever gotten lost. But if the earth is flat, does that mean that my maps are fake? And how does the compass work? Its a bit confusing to me.

Thanks for clarification.

Yeah, a magnetic compass works fine on a flat earth and works with the map so you'd be just fine all over the world with a map and compass.

Well, a magnetic compass (wich we use) needs a magnetic North and South pole to work. How would you explain this? Am I mistanken?

Also a map is more then a topographical drawing. It's creates through a geographical survey. With a map and compass I can pinpoint my location and get the more or less exact cordinates. This I can confirm with my GPS. How is this?

I've shown with an experiment that a radially oriented magnetic field would work fine on a flat earth.

It works just like any other map would. The compass always points between north (center) and south (the nearest point of the ice wall / edge.)

[Nareik]

Hi.

So I have spent a whole lot of my life in the wilderness navigating with map and compass. I always find my way. I am very confident in reading the topography of the maps and comparing it with my visual surroundings. However sometimes there are no visuals, snow, fog heavy rain etc. I also sometimes have a GPS to control my position if I get insecure, escpecially in the wintee. But I have never ever gotten lost. But if the earth is flat, does that mean that my maps are fake? And how does the compass work? Its a bit confusing to me.

Thanks for clarification.

Yeah, a magnetic compass works fine on a flat earth and works with the map so you'd be just fine all over the world with a map and compass.

Well, a magnetic compass (wich we use) needs a magnetic North and South pole to work. How would you explain this? Am I mistanken?

Also a map is more then a topographical drawing. It's creates through a geographical survey. With a map and compass I can pinpoint my location and get the more or less exact cordinates. This I can confirm with my GPS. How is this?

I've shown with an experiment that a radially oriented magnetic field would work fine on a flat earth.

It works just like any other map would. The compass always points between north (center) and south (the nearest point of the ice wall / edge.)

So North is always in the centre of the world and "South" is the closest point of the ice wall? Wouldn't that make it a bit complicated to communicate cordinates? And how does GPS fit on this modell?

[TomFoolery]

So North is always in the centre of the world and "South" is the closest point of the ice wall? Wouldn't that make it a bit complicated to communicate cordinates? And how does GPS fit on this modell?

I don't see anything complicated about polar coordinates.

I'm having a difficult time imaging you spending a lot of your life in the wilderness with  a map and a compass. The questions you're asking seem out of place for such a person.

What shape are the maps you were using? Flat. They work fine with the earth, obviously because it's flat.

Can you give any example where you're trekking around in the wilderness and the map and compass would fail you on a flat earth?

[Nareik]

So North is always in the centre of the world and "South" is the closest point of the ice wall? Wouldn't that make it a bit complicated to communicate cordinates? And how does GPS fit on this modell?

I don't see anything complicated about polar coordinates.

I'm having a difficult time imaging you spending a lot of your life in the wilderness with  a map and a compass. The questions you're asking seem out of place for such a person.

What shape are the maps you were using? Flat. They work fine with the earth, obviously because it's flat.

Can you give any example where you're trekking around in the wilderness and the map and compass would fail you on a flat earth?

Why the aggressive tone? I am simply trying to understand. I am aking questions, not claiming anything. The map is flat yes, but the longitude and latitude on the maps is created for a spherical globe right? Or is the system appliable for a flat earth too?

I live in Norway, been hiking, hunting, fishing all my life. Do you want photographic evidence?

And what about GPS?

[TomFoolery]

So North is always in the centre of the world and "South" is the closest point of the ice wall? Wouldn't that make it a bit complicated to communicate cordinates? And how does GPS fit on this modell?

I don't see anything complicated about polar coordinates.

I'm having a difficult time imaging you spending a lot of your life in the wilderness with  a map and a compass. The questions you're asking seem out of place for such a person.

What shape are the maps you were using? Flat. They work fine with the earth, obviously because it's flat.

Can you give any example where you're trekking around in the wilderness and the map and compass would fail you on a flat earth?

Why the aggressive tone? I am simply trying to understand. I am aking questions, not claiming anything. The map is flat yes, but the longitude and latitude on the maps is created for a spherical globe right? Or is the system appliable for a flat earth too?

I live in Norway, been hiking, hunting, fishing all my life. Do you want photographic evidence?

And what about GPS?

I certainly didn't mean to express any aggressive tone.

But you did ask how the compass and map could work on a flat earth, and if communicating coordinates would be complicated on a flat earth.
I cannot think of any situations where that would be true, but if you can think of any then I would be delighted to consider them.
If neither of us can think of any, then there's probably not a problem. 

A photo would be wonderful!

[Mysfit]

Tom isn’t being aggressive... Unless they’re typing very hard.

Longitude and latitude works fine on the small scale you need it to.

What about GPS?... err... it exists and works. Some consider it a hoax or supported by other means, stratelites and radio towers and such.
Anyway, you’re still allowed to use GPS. Belief or no.

[TomFoolery]

And what about GPS?

Oh yes I forgot to respond to your question about GPS.

We all agree that GPS is repeatable -- that means that if you take a GPS reading of a certain spot, you or any one else can go back with the same or another GPS to the same spot later and it'll give essentially the same reading.

Most of us agree that it is accurate on civilized land masses, in other words, that the GPS will tell you that it's 45 miles between two points and if you drive that route it'll be very close to 45 miles.

People even seem to be reporting that in Australia, which spans 3 time zones, that the GPS tells them it's around a 2400 mile drive, and the odometers on their cars tell them the same thing.
(This is a challenge for me because the flat earth map shows Australia 4000 miles long, which it has to be to span 3 time zones..)
So there's some disturbing conundrum there which we haven't figured out yet.
There some among us who do believe that Australia really is 4000 miles long and that everybody who claims to have driven it is lying about the time and distance.
(And as a consequence the jetliners flying from end to end in Astralia would have to be flying above the speed of sound.)

What we don't know is whether GPS accurately reports distances correctly when it comes to long journeys over the open oceans.

Obviously if it is reporting that correctly then there's no point in having a flat earth society, so we maintain that the GPSs do not correctly report the distance on transatlantic flights, because we have no way to verify those.
We believe that somehow the data is skewed to make the  earth seem like a globe when in fact it's flat.

This basically requires that if you're flying in a jet with a GPS receiver in your lap, that it's indicating correct speed and distance traveled while you're over land, but as the plane leaves land, the gps gradually shifts into reading high or low as the jet simultaneously speeds up or slows down in order to make the flight take the correct number of hours as if the earth was a globe.

Hope that makes sense.

[Nareik]

And what about GPS?

Oh yes I forgot to respond to your question about GPS.

We all agree that GPS is repeatable -- that means that if you take a GPS reading of a certain spot, you or any one else can go back with the same or another GPS to the same spot later and it'll give essentially the same reading.

Most of us agree that it is accurate on civilized land masses, in other words, that the GPS will tell you that it's 45 miles between two points and if you drive that route it'll be very close to 45 miles.

People even seem to be reporting that in Australia, which spans 3 time zones, that the GPS tells them it's around a 2400 mile drive, and the odometers on their cars tell them the same thing.
(This is a challenge for me because the flat earth map shows Australia 4000 miles long, which it has to be to span 3 time zones..)
So there's some disturbing conundrum there which we haven't figured out yet.
There some among us who do believe that Australia really is 4000 miles long and that everybody who claims to have driven it is lying about the time and distance.
(And as a consequence the jetliners flying from end to end in Astralia would have to be flying above the speed of sound.)

What we don't know is whether GPS accurately reports distances correctly when it comes to long journeys over the open oceans.

Obviously if it is reporting that correctly then there's no point in having a flat earth society, so we maintain that the GPSs do not correctly report the distance on transatlantic flights, because we have no way to verify those.
We believe that somehow the data is skewed to make the  earth seem like a globe when in fact it's flat.

This basically requires that if you're flying in a jet with a GPS receiver in your lap, that it's indicating correct speed and distance traveled while you're over land, but as the plane leaves land, the gps gradually shifts into reading high or low as the jet simultaneously speeds up or slows down in order to make the flight take the correct number of hours as if the earth was a globe.

Hope that makes sense.

Well, it did seem quite aggressive when you questioned my honesty.  However I am merely trying to wrap my head around the idea of a flat earth. Trying to post a picture, but don't realize how, I'm on a phone. Tips?
 

So if I understand you right. North is the center of our world. And a compass would behave the same way as it would in a spherical scenario, i.e not at all close to the magnetic North pole? It will just spin. Once you pass the pole, the N compass needle will turn as the pole is always North. Continuing in the same direction you are then heading South? (as on a sphere). But when you then hit the wall, where are you? South? Cause if I go straight South from the N. Pole I will also hit the southern wall, right? But it is not the same location? I guess this probably seems stupid to you, but believe me if your not accustumed to the idea of a flat earth its not so easy to understand.

Trying to process the GPS theory, but no it dosen't make immediate sense. It seems speculative and paranoid. But I will try my best to understand.

The whole ice wall is what puts me off. Cause I know a few people that have been to Antartica. Both scientists and explorers. And its definitely not impossible to do. Its just very very expensive. Heck you  can do cruises there these days. One Norwegian explorer, Borge Ousland crossed it in 1997. He was also the first to do the NW and NE passage in a sailship, actually circumnavigating the North Pole. Also check out Jarle Andhoy. A world sailer, he went to the South pole without any permits. He got into a shitload of trouble, but he didn't get shot. However his sailship with to people on board dissapeared in a storm while he was on his way back from the pole. It pissed of the New Zealanders cause they had to put on a huge s&r.

If the ice wall surrounds our entire world and is guarded by soldiers I find it surprising there is not a single whistleblower. Generally with the whole FE theory I find this interesting, there must have been quite a lot of people in on the secret. However this is a different discussion.

In a few years I am going to citumnavigate the world with my 43ft Colin Archer sailship, I will search for the wall!

I appreciate your answers.

[TomFoolery]

Well, it did seem quite aggressive when you questioned my honesty.

Apologies for that. We get a lot of people who come through here boasting great things about their experience but it turns out they are just making stuff up so make themselves sound believable.
I too have spent considerable time in the wilderness over the years but only as a hobby, so I've used a map and compass some too, but not nearly as much as you,
Your questions just didn't make sense to me considering your experience, that's all. But maybe you hadn't realized that our map was flat with a north pole in the center.

However I am merely trying to wrap my head around the idea of a flat earth. Trying to post a picture, but don't realize how, I'm on a phone. Tips?

Oh yeah pictures have to be under 128kbytes. You could get an app that lets you resize it, or if you email me the photo to the following address I can resize it for you and send it back.
t f s o f l a t @ g m a i l . c o m
(Just delete all the spaces, I don't want a million spam bots to pick it up.)

So if I understand you right. North is the center of our world. And a compass would behave the same way as it would in a spherical scenario, i.e not at all close to the magnetic North pole? It will just spin. Once you pass the pole, the N compass needle will turn as the pole is always North. Continuing in the same direction you are then heading South? (as on a sphere).

If I understand what you're trying to explain, yes. You're on a flat disk about 24000 miles in diameter. The north pole is in the center. The compass will always point there.
If you are someplace and going north, you will arrive at the north pole, and if you keep going straight the compass will swing around because the north poll will now be receding behind you.

But when you then hit the wall, where are you? South?

Exactly. "South" is an ice wall - a perimeter - all the way around the flat earth. That's the "south pole." even though it's a ring, not a pole. It is the magnetic south pole. (Magnets can have a ring for a pole, as my videos above showed.)

Cause if I go straight South from the N. Pole I will also hit the southern wall, right?

Yes, you will hit the southern wall.

But it is not the same location?

The southern wall is very long. There are many places you could hit it that are not all the same location.
If the flat earth is 24000 miles in diameter, it is about 75000 miles in circumference. About 121,000km in circumference.
So there is a lot of area there to explore.

I guess this probably seems stupid to you, but believe me if your not accustumed to the idea of a flat earth its not so easy to understand.

Fair enough.

Trying to process the GPS theory, but no it dosen't make immediate sense. It seems speculative and paranoid. But I will try my best to understand.

Exactly. Speculative and paranoid is not a invalid description.
It is also absolutely vital to the survival of the flat earth theory.
We are all speculative and paranoid in some ways. I mean, you wouldn't go in a car ride with a stranger who stopped you at a cross walk. Not that he ever did anything to you before, but you just don't know who he is or what he's up to, so yeah, you're speculative and paranoid about what he might be up to.
It just happens that the flat earth community is very speculative and paranoid about anything that creates a difficulty for the flat earth belief.

The whole ice wall is what puts me off. Cause I know a few people that have been to Antartica. Both scientists and explorers. And its definitely not impossible to do.

Our response to that is that yeah you can go to near the wall, and their navigational systems may have told them that they were at the geographic north pole, but in reality they weren't actually there. They were still hundreds of miles off from the ice wall.

Its just very very expensive. Heck you  can do cruises there these days. One Norwegian explorer, Borge Ousland crossed it in 1997. He was also the first to do the NW and NE passage in a sailship, actually circumnavigating the North Pole. Also check out Jarle Andhoy. A world sailer, he went to the South pole without any permits. He got into a shitload of trouble, but he didn't get shot. However his sailship with to people on board dissapeared in a storm while he was on his way back from the pole. It pissed of the New Zealanders cause they had to put on a huge s&r.

If the ice wall surrounds our entire world and is guarded by soldiers I find it surprising there is not a single whistleblower. Generally with the whole FE theory I find this interesting, there must have been quite a lot of people in on the secret. However this is a different discussion.

yeah it is quite a feat they have pulled off guarding the edge.

In a few years I am going to citumnavigate the world with my 43ft Colin Archer sailship, I will search for the wall!

I appreciate your answers.

Splendid, I wish you all the best, and I look forward to photos of the ice wall when you return!

[Nareik]

Well, it did seem quite aggressive when you questioned my honesty.

Apologies for that. We get a lot of people who come through here boasting great things about their experience but it turns out they are just making stuff up so make themselves sound believable.
I too have spent considerable time in the wilderness over the years but only as a hobby, so I've used a map and compass some too, but not nearly as much as you,
Your questions just didn't make sense to me considering your experience, that's all. But maybe you hadn't realized that our map was flat with a north pole in the center.

However I am merely trying to wrap my head around the idea of a flat earth. Trying to post a picture, but don't realize how, I'm on a phone. Tips?

Oh yeah pictures have to be under 128kbytes. You could get an app that lets you resize it, or if you email me the photo to the following address I can resize it for you and send it back.
t f s o f l a t @ g m a i l . c o m
(Just delete all the spaces, I don't want a million spam bots to pick it up.)

So if I understand you right. North is the center of our world. And a compass would behave the same way as it would in a spherical scenario, i.e not at all close to the magnetic North pole? It will just spin. Once you pass the pole, the N compass needle will turn as the pole is always North. Continuing in the same direction you are then heading South? (as on a sphere).

If I understand what you're trying to explain, yes. You're on a flat disk about 24000 miles in diameter. The north pole is in the center. The compass will always point there.
If you are someplace and going north, you will arrive at the north pole, and if you keep going straight the compass will swing around because the north poll will now be receding behind you.

But when you then hit the wall, where are you? South?

Exactly. "South" is an ice wall - a perimeter - all the way around the flat earth. That's the "south pole." even though it's a ring, not a pole. It is the magnetic south pole. (Magnets can have a ring for a pole, as my videos above showed.)

Cause if I go straight South from the N. Pole I will also hit the southern wall, right?

Yes, you will hit the southern wall.

But it is not the same location?

The southern wall is very long. There are many places you could hit it that are not all the same location.
If the flat earth is 24000 miles in diameter, it is about 75000 miles in circumference. About 121,000km in circumference.
So there is a lot of area there to explore.

I guess this probably seems stupid to you, but believe me if your not accustumed to the idea of a flat earth its not so easy to understand.

Fair enough.

Trying to process the GPS theory, but no it dosen't make immediate sense. It seems speculative and paranoid. But I will try my best to understand.

Exactly. Speculative and paranoid is not a invalid description.
It is also absolutely vital to the survival of the flat earth theory.
We are all speculative and paranoid in some ways. I mean, you wouldn't go in a car ride with a stranger who stopped you at a cross walk. Not that he ever did anything to you before, but you just don't know who he is or what he's up to, so yeah, you're speculative and paranoid about what he might be up to.
It just happens that the flat earth community is very speculative and paranoid about anything that creates a difficulty for the flat earth belief.

The whole ice wall is what puts me off. Cause I know a few people that have been to Antartica. Both scientists and explorers. And its definitely not impossible to do.

Our response to that is that yeah you can go to near the wall, and their navigational systems may have told them that they were at the geographic north pole, but in reality they weren't actually there. They were still hundreds of miles off from the ice wall.

Its just very very expensive. Heck you  can do cruises there these days. One Norwegian explorer, Borge Ousland crossed it in 1997. He was also the first to do the NW and NE passage in a sailship, actually circumnavigating the North Pole. Also check out Jarle Andhoy. A world sailer, he went to the South pole without any permits. He got into a shitload of trouble, but he didn't get shot. However his sailship with to people on board dissapeared in a storm while he was on his way back from the pole. It pissed of the New Zealanders cause they had to put on a huge s&r.

If the ice wall surrounds our entire world and is guarded by soldiers I find it surprising there is not a single whistleblower. Generally with the whole FE theory I find this interesting, there must have been quite a lot of people in on the secret. However this is a different discussion.

yeah it is quite a feat they have pulled off guarding the edge.

In a few years I am going to citumnavigate the world with my 43ft Colin Archer sailship, I will search for the wall!

I appreciate your answers.

Splendid, I wish you all the best, and I look forward to photos of the ice wall when you return!

Thank you for taking the time to answer me. I understand more now. I get your scepticism. I see you all get a lot of hate, that is truly not my intentions. There is too much hatred and polarization going on out there.

[Mysfit]

It’s a hard-knock life.
I recommend the wiki or the forum’s search feature if you need any further answers. You’ll have to bare (rarrgh) in mind that there is no unified theory, though. So, if one flat person says something, it is not gospel for all.
Hell, Tom brought up the wall and that’s not in some theories. My favourite non-wall one is the infinite-repeating plane.

[TomFoolery]

It’s a hard-knock life.
I recommend the wiki or the forum’s search feature if you need any further answers. You’ll have to bare (rarrgh) in mind that there is no unified theory, though. So, if one flat person says something, it is not gospel for all.
Hell, Tom brought up the wall and that’s not in some theories. My favourite non-wall one is the infinite-repeating plane.

The wiki however even confuses the tarzan out of me sometimes. So don't feel bad if you can't make sense of something.

For example, we read about the Equinox:

A Flat Earth Equinox

Q. How can the sun rise from even within two degrees of Due East in the Flat Earth model?

A. This is a popular topic point, but is based on a common misconception. The top down views of the Flat Earth sun models might imply that the observer can see infinitely across the earth, and see the sun at all times. However, we cannot see infinitely into the distance. The distance to the our horizon is limited to a very finite circle around us. We cannot see that far. The distance to the horizon is limited by the thickness of the atmolayer. The atmolayer is not perfectly transparent. At night when we look out at where the sun would be across the plane of the earth we are looking into hundreds of miles of fog, and thus the sun is dark and unseen.
(https://wiki.tfes.org/Equinox)

And yet, in Australia, there are 14 hours of sunlight during their longest days.
That means they can see the sun for 7 hours after high noon.
The sun is believed to basically go in a circle around the equatorial line once every 24 hours.
So 7 hours after high noon, when Australians can still see the sun, it is over 10,000 miles away, and still visible. And yet the wiki says we can't see the sun when it's hundreds of miles away.
To add to the confusion, during the peak of Australia's longest days, at sunset, the sun is actually closer to Alaska (USA, the north pole) than it is to Australia.
So theoretically, northern Alaska would have sun during the time Australia is seeing the sun set during their summer.
The problem? Northern Alaska just happens to be going through 69 days of darkness, because it's the shortest days of winter there.

I've been asking about this and so far nobody is helping me understand.

I say all this to say the wiki isn't exactly coherent or unified or fully aware of some of observable reality.

Below is my diagram of the problem with the sun I'm talking about.

[stack]

Just to add on to what TFool and Mysfit said, I'm aware of I guess what I would consider the three main FE models:

- AE Mono-pole, centered on the North Pole, with an ice wall, sometimes with a dome, sometimes not
- Bi-polar, with Antarctica as a distinct continent like in the RE model. I think with an ice wall (unsure), never seen a dome mentioned
- Infinite plane, how it's configured continent-wise, unsure

As for image posting, I use IMGUR. It's dead simple. Upload your image no matter the file size. You can edit the physical size afterwards if you like. Then just copy the BB Code provided into your post. No file size issues. 

[AlwaysTheSceptic]

If the ice wall surrounds our entire world and is guarded by soldiers I find it surprising there is not a single whistleblower. Generally with the whole FE theory I find this interesting, there must have been quite a lot of people in on the secret. However this is a different discussion.

Actually, it is the beating heart of the flat Earth notion; a huge conspiracy theory.

[Mysfit]

The wiki however even confuses the tarzan out of me sometimes. So don't feel bad if you can't make sense of something.

The wiki isn’t perfect. I have tried to help, with the wiki, on the projects board and been met with distrust. But, until it is perfect, the forum is here.