Saddam Hussein

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #200 on: June 16, 2014, 05:06:21 AM »
Nobody ever promised any Stoneheart this season!  Lena Headey's probably just read the books, or maybe they're already talking to the cast about the next season.

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #201 on: June 16, 2014, 05:29:06 AM »
Wow, apparently they didn't include Tysha. Holy fucking shit. I don't mind changes at all but that was a huge part of Tyrion's character, it added depth to his relationship with Jaime and gave him the reason to kill his father and Shae. Just wow.

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #202 on: June 16, 2014, 07:21:34 AM »
Game of Cut Off Penises
I stopped going to the gym because of Trump. Now I can't open jars

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #203 on: June 16, 2014, 09:21:47 AM »
Yep, they fucked the Tysha thing. Tyrion and Jaime go off as best friends, Tywin didn't drop the absolutely amazing "where whores go" line. Besides fucking up Tyrion, solid episode.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #204 on: June 16, 2014, 02:51:17 PM »
Wow, apparently they didn't include Tysha. Holy fucking shit. I don't mind changes at all but that was a huge part of Tyrion's character, it added depth to his relationship with Jaime and gave him the reason to kill his father and Shae. Just wow.

He had more than enough motivation to kill them both, what with them basically selling him out at his trial.  All the crap about Tysha was too convoluted, too twisted, and too difficult to relate with to bother including.

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #205 on: June 16, 2014, 04:57:43 PM »
Wow, apparently they didn't include Tysha. Holy fucking shit. I don't mind changes at all but that was a huge part of Tyrion's character, it added depth to his relationship with Jaime and gave him the reason to kill his father and Shae. Just wow.

He had more than enough motivation to kill them both, what with them basically selling him out at his trial.  All the crap about Tysha was too convoluted, too twisted, and too difficult to relate with to bother including.

Did he, though? He was angry at Tywin and Shae, but in the book he had just been told that one of the major experiences in his life was a lie. In the book, Shae defends herself by saying Cersei more or less forced her to testify, but in the show she pulls a damn knife. Book Tyrion went in there fucking pissed at Tywin, whereas show Tywin said little to anger Tyrion. Afterall, the reason he killed Tywin is because he was a stubborn cunt right until the end, "wherever whores go". It's just weird that Tyrion cares enough about Shae to get mad at her being called a whore, when he had called her that in the past.

Then there's the things Tyrion said to Jaime as a result of his participation in the Tysha stuff. After that, Jaime grows further from Cersei whereas there's nothing there right now in the show that will have the same effect. And of course the missing "wherever whores go" line that haunts Tyrion for the next 2 books.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #206 on: June 16, 2014, 05:00:45 PM »
I'm with Vindictus on this one, they should have left it. But maybe they thought it was too complicated a story for the show. There are probably few people who really remember what happened with Tyrion and Tysha.

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #207 on: June 16, 2014, 05:15:55 PM »
Lazy writing. I don't mind departures from the book at all, and this episode had some great things like Jon & Melisandre, Stannis' arrival, Brienne & Arya, etc. But they could have made Tysha a part of the season in some way, and done it easily. Tyrion had a bunch of scenes talking to people in prison, slip it in there.

Apparently she was included in season 1, so pulling it out of the blue may have been weird. Still better than Tyrion just going and killing people because reasons.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #208 on: June 16, 2014, 05:43:15 PM »
Apparently she was included in season 1, so pulling it out of the blue may have been weird.
Yep and that was it. They definitely should have re-introduced that story while he was in prison.

DAMN YOU HBO!! AND DAMN YOU FOR LEAVING OUT JORAH/DANY SEXUAL TENSION! /fangirl

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Offline Sean

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #209 on: June 16, 2014, 05:47:50 PM »
Lazy writing. I don't mind departures from the book at all, and this episode had some great things like Jon & Melisandre, Stannis' arrival, Brienne & Arya, etc. But they could have made Tysha a part of the season in some way, and done it easily. Tyrion had a bunch of scenes talking to people in prison, slip it in there.

Apparently she was included in season 1, so pulling it out of the blue may have been weird. Still better than Tyrion just going and killing people because reasons.

??? His father has treated him like an outsider his whole life, was ashamed of him, sentenced him to die knowing his innocence. Those aren't legitimate motives?
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Offline rooster

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #210 on: June 16, 2014, 05:51:28 PM »
Lazy writing. I don't mind departures from the book at all, and this episode had some great things like Jon & Melisandre, Stannis' arrival, Brienne & Arya, etc. But they could have made Tysha a part of the season in some way, and done it easily. Tyrion had a bunch of scenes talking to people in prison, slip it in there.

Apparently she was included in season 1, so pulling it out of the blue may have been weird. Still better than Tyrion just going and killing people because reasons.

??? His father has treated him like an outsider his whole life, was ashamed of him, sentenced him to die knowing his innocence. Those aren't legitimate motives?
That's enough of a reason for a volatile person, but Tyrion is really mild mannered and intelligent. He's not one to kill people and I feel like there should be a lot of really good reasons to make him snap.

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #211 on: June 16, 2014, 08:11:18 PM »
Lazy writing. I don't mind departures from the book at all, and this episode had some great things like Jon & Melisandre, Stannis' arrival, Brienne & Arya, etc. But they could have made Tysha a part of the season in some way, and done it easily. Tyrion had a bunch of scenes talking to people in prison, slip it in there.

Apparently she was included in season 1, so pulling it out of the blue may have been weird. Still better than Tyrion just going and killing people because reasons.

??? His father has treated him like an outsider his whole life, was ashamed of him, sentenced him to die knowing his innocence. Those aren't legitimate motives?

Just about everyone treated him like that. He's a dwarf, he's used to it.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #212 on: June 16, 2014, 08:12:13 PM »
Part of the reason why the next two books are so weak in comparison to the rest of the series is that the characters spend so much time brooding and dwelling on the past that they have very little time to actually do things and advance the story.  Even if all that angst had been done well in the books - and it wasn't - it would be impossible to translate to screen.

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Offline Sean

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #213 on: June 16, 2014, 08:20:39 PM »
Lazy writing. I don't mind departures from the book at all, and this episode had some great things like Jon & Melisandre, Stannis' arrival, Brienne & Arya, etc. But they could have made Tysha a part of the season in some way, and done it easily. Tyrion had a bunch of scenes talking to people in prison, slip it in there.

Apparently she was included in season 1, so pulling it out of the blue may have been weird. Still better than Tyrion just going and killing people because reasons.

??? His father has treated him like an outsider his whole life, was ashamed of him, sentenced him to die knowing his innocence. Those aren't legitimate motives?

Just about everyone treated him like that. He's a dwarf, he's used to it.

Yeah, but only one of those people is his father.
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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #214 on: June 16, 2014, 08:23:45 PM »
Part of the reason why the next two books are so weak in comparison to the rest of the series is that the characters spend so much time brooding and dwelling on the past that they have very little time to actually do things and advance the story.  Even if all that angst had been done well in the books - and it wasn't - it would be impossible to translate to screen.

Christ there's been enough brooding already.

There must be about 30+ characters in this show, and I reckon only 5 of them actually did anything noteworthy this season.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #215 on: June 19, 2014, 09:05:33 PM »
I totally want the next season to have more of this:


Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #216 on: June 19, 2014, 09:21:05 PM »
I never perceived an increase in brooding in books 4&5. An increase in boring chapters that don't really go anywhere, sure, but not brooding.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #217 on: June 20, 2014, 03:07:00 AM »
I never perceived an increase in brooding in books 4&5. An increase in boring chapters that don't really go anywhere, sure, but not brooding.

Yeah, that was a new idea to me, too.  I'll agree that Cersei's out-of-nowhere motivation for hating Tyrion was stupid, and maybe Dany spent a little too much time regretting the way things had gone after all the things she had done (but I kind of love her character for that too).  Other than that I really don't see it.

What's weird to me about the way Martin suddenly seemed to be drawing out the story is that it really wasn't necessary for him to do so.  It was supposed to be, what, four books at first?  He was the one who decided to expand it like this.  He has no one to blame for being bored with the story but himself.

Oh, the lack of Tywin saying "Wherever whores go" was a bit disappointing to me too.  That background with Tysha is such an important part of Tyrion's character arc I am a bit surprised they left it entirely out, and that is a killer line.  I was kind of hoping they would end the whole episode on Tyrion killing Tywin and fleeing King's Landing, but ending it on Arya setting sail for Braavos makes sense too.

On another note, I downloaded Roges on my Kindle, obviously mostly for the new George RR Martin "story", and what a disappointment that was.  It reads more like a history book than a real story, and it's not even really about the "rogue" (Daemon Targaryen) that would make its inclusion in this collection make sense, it's more about his brother (Viserys, obviously not Dany's brother) and the Targaeryans of the era as a whole, and it expressly leaves a lot of what was supposed to make Daemon interesting out.  And worst of all, if I read right it's an excerpt of that big history of Westeros Martin has coming out later this year, so buying it solely for new George RR Martin is entirely unnecessary if you intend to get that book.  It was also way too short.  Even the introduction Martin wrote for the book is lazy.  If it weren't for the new Gaiman and Lansdale stories that are also in it I would declare it a complete waste of money.

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Saddam Hussein

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #218 on: June 20, 2014, 05:20:38 AM »
Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree about Tysha.  I don't think they could have effectively built up the reveal with dialogue, and springing it on us at the last second as a deus angst machina (I really need to stop reading TV Tropes) would have been even worse.  Bear in mind that even when Tyrion talked about it in the first season, the writers omitted the part where his father then made him rape her as well.  And there's a good reason they cut that detail out - it's completely fucked-up, and nobody in the world could possibly sympathize with or relate to it.  Those kinds of twisted backstories belong in books, if they indeed belong anywhere at all.  It just doesn't translate.

Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #219 on: June 20, 2014, 09:07:02 AM »
I don't think there's any justification at all for leaving it out, they're just too lazy to make it work.