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Offline crutonius

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #540 on: May 04, 2019, 07:13:09 PM »

[image that ironically sums up exactly what was wrong with episode 3]

Oh I'm still going to watch the rest of it. And I'm still enjoying it. But it's a little like watching the matrix sequels.

I put part of the blame on Martin. The way he set things up are much better for telling a story than it is for finishing that story.

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Offline honk

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #541 on: May 05, 2019, 04:38:47 AM »
https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/game-of-thrones-season-8-what-is-plot-armor

This is a dumb article. Well, not entirely. I more or less agree with this general sentiment:

Quote
But the rise of "plot armor" in describing Game of Thrones, along with the equally irritating and sexist use of "Mary Sue," feels like it's part of a larger, more insidious trend in pop culture writing of ceding the linguistic ground to a specific strand of pedantic, know-it-all fandom. Many of the storytelling tics cataloged on a site like TV Tropes are fun to identify and joke about among friends -- the shorthand can also be useful in calling out harmful stereotypes and lazy narrative shortcuts -- but merely being able to identify a resemblance to other classic stories does not necessarily mean the story is doing something "wrong." Over eight seasons, you'd think Game of Thrones would've earned some critical wiggle room, and it's frustrating to see the show get dinged for the type of "sins" you'd find in one of those terminally unfunny and performatively savvy YouTube videos like "Everything Wrong with Star Wars: The Last Jedi" or "10 Dumbest Harry Potter Plot Holes."

There's more to the criticism of "plot armor" than just the main characters happening to survive, and it's disingenuous to summarize it as that. The problem, as I've heard echoed all over the Internet, is that the episode kept dropping the mains into situations where they seemed to be about to die and inexplicably cutting back to them later doing fine. It's not like this complaint has been a constant refrain throughout the show. Remember "The Watchers on the Wall," the big battle from the fourth season? Sam survived that battle, and I don't recall there being a backlash about him having plot armor, because the episode gave a satisfactory account of how he managed to pull through it. He ran, he hid, he and Gilly watched each other's backs, he used his environment effectively, and so on. In this episode, he was in the thick of things, constantly surrounded by aggressive enemies, more competent soldiers being overpowered and killed in mere seconds on either side of him, and the show doesn't bother giving an explanation as to how he survived beyond the fact that he apparently just did. That's lazy. I get that in the limited time they had they couldn't give every character a compelling subplot about how they survived the battle, but if they weren't able to do Sam justice, then they shouldn't have included him. They could have put him in the crypt and let him talk to Tyrion and Sansa.

I put part of the blame on Martin. The way he set things up are much better for telling a story than it is for finishing that story.

It's not helped by his last two books padding out the storyline and introducing new subplots instead of advancing the story significantly. I can't imagine him being able to provide a satisfactory conclusion in just two more books, and at this point I doubt he's even particularly interested in finishing the series.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 12:43:26 AM by honk »
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #542 on: May 05, 2019, 04:29:55 PM »
There were probably better solutions for Sam, but there might also be reasons why he had to be in the battle that haven’t been revealed yet. My memory is foggy, but didn’t a bunch of people die to save Sam too?
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #543 on: May 05, 2019, 06:44:51 PM »
[image that ironically sums up exactly what Internet fanboys think was wrong with episode 3]

This is why I hate fandom.

Fixed
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #544 on: May 06, 2019, 12:18:13 AM »
Sam survived that battle, and I don't recall there being a backlash about him having plot armor, because the episode gave a satisfactory account of how he managed to pull through it

I've always had a problem with Sam, though I'm not sure if I've had this discussion with anyone here or not. He's a character that was tossed into many, many situations which should have killed him, and don't, because the miracle of Sam. He's a character who manages to trek for miles and miles and miles in a frozen wasteland and still remain the fattest character on the show. He survived a whitewalker attack the first time, because I guess it looked at him and felt too much pity to kill him. He survived a whitewalker attack the second time by charging up to him and stabbing him, despite whitewalkers normally showing much more combat finesse than just allowing someone to run up to them to stab them. (Even Arya, a trained super-assassin who can magically look like other people couldn't sneak up on a whitewalker). He survived the Long Night by literally sitting in one spot and crying nearly half the episode.

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Offline honk

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #545 on: May 06, 2019, 12:46:16 AM »
Sam still being so fat is arguably the least believable part of the show.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #546 on: May 06, 2019, 03:01:59 AM »
Spoiler for episode played on May 5th

ayy lmao imagine you're flying on your dragon thousands of feet in the air and you miss ENORMOUS BLACK SHIPS WITH GIANT CROSSBOWS ATTACHED TO THEM WITH A DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT TO YOU

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Offline honk

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #547 on: May 06, 2019, 04:35:40 AM »
Yeah, for the first half of the episode I was thinking this was a pretty big improvement on the last one, and then that moment happened so abruptly and nonsensically that they might as well have played a comedic record scratch and a laugh track over it. This show is a fucking parody of itself by now, and it's becoming increasingly clear that D&D have very little creative talent of their own, having simply lucked into showrunning a series with three terrific novels providing their story for the first few seasons. Take that safety blanket away, and this is just a glossy prestige show written by idiots.
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Offline crutonius

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #548 on: May 06, 2019, 05:10:00 AM »
Issues...


So as has been mentioned there's the total inability of Danaerys to appreciate that there's anti dragon weaponry.  Fly at night.  Fly out of range.  Send a scouting party ahead of time.  This is just basic stuff here.

The biggest problem is that.  Okay so it's time to kill Cersei.  Now would have been a great time for Aria to bring up, "oh yeah, I forgot to mentioned.  I'm an unstoppable assassin.  I was actually on my way to murder her before I got distracted."  These people have serious communication problems.

Also, I figured out what Bran was doing spaced out during the entire battle last episode.  He's basically a teenage that can peer through space and time.  So he's definitely spending the vast majority of his time watching famous people fuck.  It's about the only reason why someone with clairvoyance can be so tactically useless.




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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #549 on: May 06, 2019, 07:12:21 AM »
At this point I'm just looking forward to the Mountain/Hound fight. I don't think they can fuck up a good old fashioned sword fight.
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Offline StapleBattery

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #550 on: May 06, 2019, 12:35:19 PM »
At this point I'm just looking forward to the Mountain/Hound fight. I don't think they can fuck up a good old fashioned sword fight.
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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #551 on: May 06, 2019, 01:35:38 PM »
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

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Offline StapleBattery

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #552 on: May 06, 2019, 02:46:06 PM »
Issues...


So as has been mentioned there's the total inability of Danaerys to appreciate that there's anti dragon weaponry.  Fly at night.  Fly out of range.  Send a scouting party ahead of time.  This is just basic stuff here.

The biggest problem is that.  Okay so it's time to kill Cersei.  Now would have been a great time for Aria to bring up, "oh yeah, I forgot to mentioned.  I'm an unstoppable assassin.  I was actually on my way to murder her before I got distracted."  These people have serious communication problems.

Also, I figured out what Bran was doing spaced out during the entire battle last episode.  He's basically a teenage that can peer through space and time.  So he's definitely spending the vast majority of his time watching famous people fuck.  It's about the only reason why someone with clairvoyance can be so tactically useless.



You can't even spell the names of the characters right. Begone, fake fan. >o<
You just made my list, buddy.  >:(
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Offline crutonius

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #553 on: May 06, 2019, 02:49:08 PM »
Issues...


So as has been mentioned there's the total inability of Danaerys to appreciate that there's anti dragon weaponry.  Fly at night.  Fly out of range.  Send a scouting party ahead of time.  This is just basic stuff here.

The biggest problem is that.  Okay so it's time to kill Cersei.  Now would have been a great time for Aria to bring up, "oh yeah, I forgot to mentioned.  I'm an unstoppable assassin.  I was actually on my way to murder her before I got distracted."  These people have serious communication problems.

Also, I figured out what Bran was doing spaced out during the entire battle last episode.  He's basically a teenage that can peer through space and time.  So he's definitely spending the vast majority of his time watching famous people fuck.  It's about the only reason why someone with clairvoyance can be so tactically useless.



You can't even spell the names of the characters right. Begone, fake fan. >o<

The wreters have botchered the storry so badly that they do not even dserve criticism speled correctly!

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #554 on: May 06, 2019, 02:50:34 PM »


Are these dragons considered mature? Asking for a friend.
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Offline crutonius

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #555 on: May 06, 2019, 02:53:01 PM »


Are these dragons considered mature? Asking for a friend.

I believe so, judging by the size of the dragon skulls in King's Landing.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #556 on: May 06, 2019, 02:53:43 PM »
Oh yeah. And that was the biggest dragon evah.
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Offline crutonius

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #557 on: May 06, 2019, 03:02:07 PM »
Now that you bring it up I don't know. Maybe size isn't a perfect indicator.

It doesn't really matter though since the writers seem to think that the good guys have invulnerable superweapons would make for a boring finale.

I would think that having a guaranteed victory for Dany would open up other story telling opportunities more in line with the character of Dany and the series in general. It could have focused on the dilemma of having to burn tens of thousands of innocent people to win and if she's even the good guy after that.

Nope. We're getting R rated Lord of the Rings.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #558 on: May 06, 2019, 04:01:24 PM »
We're getting R rated Lord of the Rings.

Not even that, because not one time has Emilia Clarke's clothes been burned off this season.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Game of Thrones
« Reply #559 on: May 06, 2019, 05:55:05 PM »
<garygreen> Rushy: on the notion of abandoning ghost
<Rushy> garygreen: "fuck off, ghost" -Jon
<garygreen> i love that ghost has spent his whole life south of the wall in summer, and now it's like too hot or something?
<garygreen> well i guess not his whole life since he was with jon north of the wall, too
<garygreen> but you get the idea
<Rushy> I like how Dany and Drogon are clearly in range of the 1000 crossbows Cersei has mounted on a fucking wall
<garygreen> yeah that shit was nonsense
<Rushy> the same crossbows that Euron had mounted on his ships, could shoot thousands of feet into the air and still do damage, and could shoot straight through other warships
<Rushy> but that dragon that's only about half or 3/4 a mile out? Nah, leave it be
<Rushy> like what was the point of that anyway
<Rushy> shouldn't they know by now that Cersei isn't going to surrender
<Rushy> did they all really just show up there for Missandei who was captured via magic
<Rushy> how is only half her armies dead when we saw everyone get obliterated during episode 3?
<Rushy> Is dany summoning more troops via a portal that hasn't been mentioned on screen?
<garygreen> i srsly don't get how missandei was captured in the first place
<Rushy> m a g i c
<garygreen> or how euron would even know who she was
<garygreen> or cersei for that matter
<garygreen> like how have they even heard of her
<Rushy> they saw her at that get-together right
<Rushy> where they're like "cersei my dude, there's zombies and shit"
<garygreen> oh yeah i forgot about that
<Rushy> "can you like, not be such a bitch" and she's like "no"
<garygreen> lol
<Rushy> I like how the fact that Dany is Jon's aunt bothers him a lot but Dany doesn't give a shit
<Rushy> I'd be so pissed if I were Jon, all the time