Who started the lie?
« on: February 11, 2019, 12:13:34 PM »
Hi I was just wondering who started this whole lie about the earth being round and why? Why would 99% of people run with it? Who keeps it running today? Who is the master mind?

I thank you for your thoughts in before hand  ;)

Re: Who started the lie?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2019, 04:05:22 PM »
Who started the lie? The theory of the shape of the earth went through a ton of iterations, and dates back at least 3,000 years. Before then, there was not a lot written, and if anyone had theorized such a concept, it would have never been recorded.

One of the most common responses given by flat Earth believers to the FAQ 'Why do you believe the Earth is flat?' is because it looks flat. I believe that Tom once answered this question along the lines of

"If I emerged from my cave for the very first time and looked at the mammoths cavorting on a broad expanse of tundra, I surely wouldn't quickly assume I was standing on a sphere"

I quite agree with that comment. I am pretty sure many of the present day indiginous tribes of remote parts of the world who have never travelled more than a few miles away from their settlements would agree too if the question was put to them.  They have not been educated with any skills and knowledge beyond what they need to survive day to day and year to year. As long as those people can catch food, have shelter and can live their lives in relative safety and comfort I am sure it doesn't matter to them what shape or size the planet they live on is.

As hunters and gatherers, who would really care? But after a long day of just trying to survive, at night, many probably looked up at the stars and began to ponder. Pretty much every culture in history (and independently mind you), looked up at the cosmos, and began to ponder their placement in it, and attempted to explain it as best as they could understand it. This usually involved stories, past on by word of mouth. Some of it fairy tales, some of it religious doctrine, but all tried to comprehend the very universal questions of the present, past and future; Who are we? Where did we come from? Where are we going? These answers are debated to be unanswerable, but we continually quest to know. This fundamental process of observing and theorizing is what it is all about, and is in part of the answer of "Where did we come from?"

But with other human inventions freeing up our time, we progressed from the hunting and gathering and became more "civilized." Come now to ancient Greece. Living in the wild being no longer a common day to day life, many people spent more time "thinking." One of these "thinkers" was Aristotle, who observed the ships disappearing over the horizon, and began to wonder how?

There is no real evidence for the ball earth. Aristotile's proofs for a globe based on sinking ships and lunar eclipses are unsupportable.

Tom is absolutely right! Aristotle's observations (not "proofs") were just hypothetical questions. During this time many people were simply thinking, because they were observing something that went against their understanding of the world around them and wanted to know why. For example, many students of the Greek Academy, knew the Greek myths and legends and the constellations in the sky. But when they looked up at the sky a simple question crossed their minds. If the stars are Gods, why are some fixed and some move (planets). And even of the ones that move, because we have been documenting it, we can now predict their patterns. A God would not contain themselves to predictable patterns!

On the topic of the earth's shape, Aristotle just threw the question out there. A hundred and some odd years would need to pass before another Greek, Eratosthenes (who is largely associated with being the inventor of Geography), said, hey it is not good enough to observe and question the earth's shape, I wanna prove it! And basically he did. He began the traditional way, by observing and questioning. He knew that on midday of the summer solstice, a well in Syene, Egypt had no shadow in it. Legend goes that on this particular day with this knowledge already known, and living in Alexandria ~670 miles north of Syene, he looked in a well and saw that a shadow was cast. This could not be correct! If the earth were flat, there should be no shadow! But he needed to remove the variables, he needed to test it! So he measured the shadow cast using a pole in Alexandria. Using this information, he did a little trigonometry. The only way a shadow could be cast in this fashion would be if the surface was curved, not flat. This led to a theory that the earth was round.

Best part about this, its an experiment that can be replicated. Video chat with a friend who lives in Alaska, and you in California. At the same time of day go outside and compare each others shadow. Get a lamp and place two action figures on a board. Try and replicate the shadow. Experiment with the placement of the lamp, experiment with different surfaces.

The story continues for another 2,500 years. And the pursuit continues. But the rules really haven't.

So who started the lie? I guess Aristotle will get the historical blame. But if it were to be a lie, it would be a spectacular lie, put forth by a true genius! For this to be a lie, NASA would have had to invent this very elaborate history, and somehow have it check with the laws of nature. Anyone who has that level of genius, I can only applaud them.

Re: Who started the lie?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2019, 02:21:52 AM »
Hi I was just wondering who started this whole lie about the earth being round and why? Why would 99% of people run with it? Who keeps it running today? Who is the master mind?

I thank you for your thoughts in before hand  ;)

Nobody "started" the lie
First, the Earth was assumed to be flat. Everybody thought it was flat because there was no reason to think it was not.
Afterwards, Erathostenes made a simple experiment and figured out it was in fact not flat, but a sphere (you can read about it here https://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html you'll understand it if you passed 6th grade math)
Then some centuries later, a group of people decided the previous three thousand yers of cience and knowdlege were wrong and started telling people the earth was flat.

There is no mastermind, and 99% of people "run" it because it is verifiable and truthful science. The other 1% lacks basic cognoscitive skills or refuses the truth to feel special

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Offline BillO

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Re: Who started the lie?
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2019, 01:57:10 PM »
There is no real evidence for the ball earth. Aristotile's proofs for a globe based on sinking ships and lunar eclipses are unsupportable.

Tom is absolutely right! Aristotle's observations (not "proofs") were just hypothetical questions.
I have it disagree.

1) Sinking ships and lunar eclipses are what is predicted by a ball earth.

2) These observations are repeatable by any and all.

3) These observations are counter indicated on a flat earth.

4) Personal peeve here:  I get a little tired of seeing people (Tom is the worst offender, but the behavior is pervasive in the FE community) claim science does not 'prove' this or that and using the term 'prove' as you would in philosophy or mathematics.  Science does not seek to 'prove' anything in that way.  Science seeks an understanding of the universe by building models of it that provide useful predictions of it's behavior.  Note the term 'useful' - not exact!  If science constructs a model, and that model predicts observation within the stipulated acceptable error, then that model is 'proven' to make useful predictions.

In this case, the concept of a ball earth predicts ships sinking over the horizon and the nature of lunar eclipses and these things are observed as predicted.  Therefore the ball earth concept is shown to provide useful predictions and is colloquially described as being 'proven' within acceptable error to be a useful concept for these purposes as a result.  This adds to the evidence for a ball earth.

The concept of a flat earth predicts that neither of these observation will be as we actually observe, therefore it is colloquially described as being 'proven' within acceptable error to be a useless concept for these purposes as a result.  This adds to the evidence against a flat earth.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 02:05:37 PM by BillO »
Here a quack, there a quack, everywhere a quack quack.

Quote from: Tom Bishop - Zetetic Council Member
The moon's orbital path has a diameter of 768,000 km. That is almost one million miles.

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Offline WellRoundedIndividual

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Re: Who started the lie?
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2019, 08:23:13 PM »
Correct. Science does not prove things with 100% certainty and accuracy.  If that were true, I would be able to build a 24VDC power supply based on the principles of basic electrical design, and say with 100% certainty and accuracy that the output of  that 24VDC power supply will give me exactly 24VDC at its output.  Not true. It will be close. And to measure it, as well, will not give me exactly 24VDC. But it will be close. Will my PLC and associated 24VDC devices still work even though its not exactly 24VDC? Yup.
BobLawBlah.

Offline retlaw

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Re: Who started the lie?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 06:58:28 PM »
Jesuits



They also created the world first telescope and the first observatory and club.
They also have the worlds largest telescope nick named Lucifer build on top a mtn in the southern USA on top of an Indian burial ground.