I want to ask some questions.
« on: February 09, 2019, 08:28:10 PM »
I want to preface this by saying I'm not a troll I'm genuinely interested in your responses;

Firstly, say we use Gleason's map (https://fedora.digitalcommonwealth.org/fedora/objects/commonwealth:7h149v867/datastreams/access800/content) and assumed up is north then if you went east from America you would reach the Arctic border, so why don't you?

Finally, the sun is a huge star emitting light onto our earth, so why can't you see it from everywhere at the same time if it's above us all?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: I want to ask some questions.
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2019, 10:03:06 PM »
1. I assume that you mean the Antarctic border. The answer is that if you went East from America you would travel in a circle around the North Pole, since the compass points North, and East and West are always at right angles to North.

2. The matter is summarized by the following:

     a. The atmosphere is opaque with distance and limits our vision. We cannot see forever across the earth.
     b. The sun close to the earth and manifests as a projection upon the atmolayer.

When the border of the sun's area of light intersects your circle of vision, sunrise occurs.

See: https://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 10:08:18 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: I want to ask some questions.
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2019, 10:27:07 PM »
1. I assume that you mean the Antarctic border. The answer is that if you went East from America you would travel in a circle around the North Pole, since the compass points North, and East and West are always at right angles to North.

2. The matter is summarized by the following:

     a. The atmosphere is opaque with distance and limits our vision. We cannot see forever across the earth.
     b. The sun close to the earth and manifests as a projection upon the atmolayer.

When the border of the sun's area of light intersects your circle of vision, sunrise occurs.

See: https://wiki.tfes.org/Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset
Diagram for 2b please to explain in more detail.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: I want to ask some questions.
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2019, 11:08:59 PM »
Rowbotham has a diagram of the sun projecting on the atmolayer on Chapter 10 here:



Line AB is where the sun projects onto the atmolayer. It seems like it might also be interpreted as a "dome" of atmosphere rather than an line of atmolayer, since the opacity of the atmolayer is all around us in three dimensions.

We should probably make an article about question number 2, "Why can't we see the sun at all times," specifically.

My interpretation of the larger scene would be a large circle representing the circle of the earth, with a smaller circle or oval of the sun's area of light pivoting around its center. The observer's vision is pretty limited, we can only see maybe 25 miles away depending on conditions? Basically a dot. When the border of the sun's area of light intersects the observer's circle of vision sunrise occurs.

Visualization ideas are appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 11:29:26 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: I want to ask some questions.
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2019, 11:58:55 PM »
Rowbotham has a diagram of the sun projecting on the atmolayer on Chapter 10 here:



Line AB is where the sun projects onto the atmolayer. It seems like it might also be interpreted as a "dome" of atmosphere rather than an line of atmolayer, since the opacity of the atmolayer is all around us in three dimensions.

We should probably make an article about question number 2, "Why can't we see the sun at all times," specifically.

My interpretation of the larger scene would be a large circle representing the circle of the earth, with a smaller circle or oval of the sun's area of light pivoting around its center. The observer's vision is pretty limited, we can only see maybe 25 miles away depending on conditions? Basically a dot. When the border of the sun's area of light intersects the observer's circle of vision sunrise occurs.

Visualization ideas are appreciated.
Sadly, not consistent with measurements of the angle of the sun from different locations at different times of day.  Unless you can provide some examples.

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Offline TomFoolery

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Re: I want to ask some questions.
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2019, 05:21:10 AM »
Rowbotham has a diagram of the sun projecting on the atmolayer on Chapter 10 here:



Line AB is where the sun projects onto the atmolayer. It seems like it might also be interpreted as a "dome" of atmosphere rather than an line of atmolayer, since the opacity of the atmolayer is all around us in three dimensions.

We should probably make an article about question number 2, "Why can't we see the sun at all times," specifically.

My interpretation of the larger scene would be a large circle representing the circle of the earth, with a smaller circle or oval of the sun's area of light pivoting around its center. The observer's vision is pretty limited, we can only see maybe 25 miles away depending on conditions? Basically a dot. When the border of the sun's area of light intersects the observer's circle of vision sunrise occurs.

Visualization ideas are appreciated.

I'm trying to understand this 25 mile limit to vision. We can often see mountains that are 75 to 100 miles away.
And during Australia's longest day of the year, the sun is like 10,000 miles away when it sets because that's just how far it has to move in the 7 hours after high solar noon.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: I want to ask some questions.
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2019, 01:32:10 PM »
Rowbotham has a diagram of the sun projecting on the atmolayer on Chapter 10 here:

Line AB is where the sun projects onto the atmolayer. It seems like it might also be interpreted as a "dome" of atmosphere rather than an line of atmolayer, since the opacity of the atmolayer is all around us in three dimensions.

 ... but the projections differ in size. We don't observe any such variation in sun size. Get a solar filter, photograph it throughout the day, and you will see no variation.

Which sorta suggests Rowbottom to be ... wrong.
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