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Offline Tintagel

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Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« on: February 01, 2014, 01:41:05 AM »
We needed another one of these threads, and the upper fora need more FET focused content.  Ask, and I shall endeavor to enlighten.

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Offline Lemon

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 10:49:42 AM »
When did you first question the shape of the Earth, and for what particular reason, if any?
NOTHING TO SEE HERE. IGNORE RAMA SET.

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2014, 12:22:01 PM »
When did you first question the shape of the Earth, and for what particular reason, if any?

I suppose we all do, early in life, but the time that counts, it was actually when I found the old Flat Earth Society website.  Like most noobs, at first I laughed.  I didn't make an account or post on the site.  Rather I lurked anonymously for nearly two years, reading the arguments, browsing the wiki.  My amusement quickly turned to fascination.  I couldn't learn enough about this stuff.

I believe it was a post by Pongo on the old site that caused my lightbulb moment.  I don't remember exactly what it was about, but the gist of his point was "But how do you know?  How do you really know?".  This was also around the time that I Want To Believe had only just joined, so I got to see another person slowly opening to the idea.

At that point, I opened my mind to the idea and really started to question the things that before I had taken for granted.  I'd already familiarized myself with the models, so most of my initial questions already had plausible answers.  The more I thought about it, once I allowed myself to really consider it, the more reasonable it became.  I started doodling sketches of light's curvature, and the more I observed the world around me the more it all made sense.  I made an account, posted an introduction that expressed my fascination, and from there it was really just a matter of weeks before I was truly a convert.

Offline Socker

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2014, 06:51:16 PM »
How many upper level people would need to be aware of the Conspiracy over the years,  and how is that not too many people to keep a secret?

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 06:54:04 PM »
How many upper level people would need to be aware of the Conspiracy over the years,  and how is that not too many people to keep a secret?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, so I can't answer that exactly.  I'm of the opinion that the majority of people doing the actual work aren't part of the conspiracy; they're just mistaken.  However, at the levels we're talking about, if someone needed to keep a secret, I have no doubt that said secrecy could be easily enforced.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2014, 11:48:28 PM »
You believe the Earth to be an Infinite Plane, correct? Do you have any speculation as to what might lie beyond Antarctica? Another curious question: How is it no one's gone to find out?

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 01:38:08 AM »
You believe the Earth to be an Infinite Plane, correct? Do you have any speculation as to what might lie beyond Antarctica? Another curious question: How is it no one's gone to find out?
I suspect that it might be, but I can't explain why.  Strange that something finite should be harder to grasp than something infinite, but there it is. 

As for speculation as to what lies beyond antarctica, it's anyone's guess.  I have my theories as to the nature of the planar earth, and to be honest I'm making an effort to stay out of the realm of the theoretical for a while, but since you asked, I'll answer.

One possible scenario, among many (to be taken with a grain of salt):  It's long been an argument from round earth thinkers that there is spatial distortion in the southern hemiplane of our flat earth map.  I've asked myself, "Well, what if they're right, and there literally are spatial distortions?"  This was a thought experiment I put together, in which the spatial dimensions themselves decompress as we get closer to the southern polar rim.  In this case, it may be physically impossible to venture too far out into the antarctic plane as the spatial dimensions get increasingly distorted.  Expeditions "across" antarctica that have happened in the past can easily be mapped as a simple journey around the rim, and it seems like something forces these expeditions to turn around and begin heading north again.  Spatial distortion could account for this behavior, and in regards to the infinite plane, as spatial relationships get may get stretched out ever more, increasing exponentially the farther out you go beyond the pole, infinity (paradoxically) may not be very far.

But - that's all purely hypothetical, not to mention rather esoteric, and isn't good for much but rhetoric.  As I mentioned before, I'm making an effort not to dwell in the theoretical overmuch, and to focus on the zetetic disciplines that led me to belief in a flat earth to begin with.  These ideas are fun to think about, but that's about it for me.  All I know for sure is that I don't know what's out there.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 01:49:41 AM »
So that kind of answers my next question, why hasn't anyone gone to find out? Anyone who tried would be pushed back North. So why is the Earth an infinite plane, rather than a round disc or a flat square? & what leads you to believe in the Infinite Plane model?

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2014, 03:42:15 AM »
So that kind of answers my next question, why hasn't anyone gone to find out? Anyone who tried would be pushed back North. So why is the Earth an infinite plane, rather than a round disc or a flat square? & what leads you to believe in the Infinite Plane model?
Nothing, other than it just makes more sense to me.  I could always be wrong, but I can't shake the idea that there isn't a "Truman Show" style edge to our home, otherwise someone would have at least glimpsed it.  The earth, therefore, must be either infinite, or extend farther than any human has even gone (and returned, anyway).

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2014, 04:42:54 AM »
I see your point. Now, what can you tell me about Antarctica?

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2014, 04:49:58 AM »
I see your point. Now, what can you tell me about Antarctica?
Very little with any authority, as I've never been there.  I gather it's cold, and inhospitable. 

Offline Socker

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2014, 05:10:25 AM »
What in your opinion is the weakest part of FET, if anything? It could be anything that might be explained better with RET. (Coriolis Effect,  sunsets,  satellites,  etc.)

Saddam Hussein

Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2014, 06:07:12 AM »
Do you have any thoughts on what John Davis has been saying back on the old site since his most recent hiatus?  I know that's a really broad question, and I should probably post some specific links to help give you an idea of what to respond to, but off the top of your head, is there anything he's said that's resonated with you?  Or at least anything that you could understand?

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2014, 02:21:11 PM »
What in your opinion is the weakest part of FET, if anything? It could be anything that might be explained better with RET. (Coriolis Effect,  sunsets,  satellites,  etc.)
I'm not sure there's anything that is explained "better" with RET - they're just explained differently, necessarily because the perceived shape of the earth is different.  The weakest part of FET is the fact that its adherents are too few (and now split to even fewer) to really pursue the kind of experimental verifications that I know we could with a more unified membership, or even just a little intellectual curiosity on the part of RET folks.  The key to a strong FET is a strong FES, and while this one's already better defined and organized than the old one, we still have a long way to go to establish our own legitimacy and draw a following.  Still, things are happening, and that's good to see.

Do you have any thoughts on what John Davis has been saying back on the old site since his most recent hiatus?  I know that's a really broad question, and I should probably post some specific links to help give you an idea of what to respond to, but off the top of your head, is there anything he's said that's resonated with you?  Or at least anything that you could understand?

Yeah, you'll have to point out specifics.  I'm only peripherally aware of the other site lately.  I did give it a glance, but didn't immediately see what you were talking about. 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 02:46:07 PM »
I've seen John Davis' name pop up a few times lately. Who is he, & why is he relevant? What experiment or activity could conclusively prove the Earth to be flat & resolve some or all of the outstanding questions as to whether its a disc, an infinite plane, etc?

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2014, 02:57:17 PM »
I've seen John Davis' name pop up a few times lately. Who is he, & why is he relevant? What experiment or activity could conclusively prove the Earth to be flat & resolve some or all of the outstanding questions as to whether its a disc, an infinite plane, etc?
Disc with indeterminate radius seems most likely, though the only way to really test this would involve knowing where the edge, if one exists, is.  John Davis is a theorist who used to be quite active on the other site, and claimed to be writing a book on his new, all-encompassing version of FET.  As far as I know nothing ever came of it.  His model uses the strange map that renders antarctica as a distinct continent while wrapping the lines of latitude bizarrely around the disc.


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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2014, 07:27:35 PM »
His ideas of simultaneity about contradictory models seemed to be prevalent in recent times as well.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2014, 07:30:58 PM »
I assume, Tintagel, the map to which you refer is the so-called bi-polar map? Rama Set, what do you mean exactly? Please elucidate.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2014, 07:35:30 PM »
John Davis would often say that two models can exist simultaneously until there was a paradox created between them. For example: a FE could be based on a south polar projection and a northern polar projection, both being simultaneously true except where they conflicted. It always struck me as some metaphysical tap-dancing to make this a valid world view, but I did enjoy his appeal to the fluidity of human perception. Let me know how little sense I made.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: Ask a Flat Earth Theorist Anything
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2014, 07:37:29 PM »
Wow! You made sense in terms of reporting his idea, but the idea makes no sense!