ShootingStar

Earthquake wave shadow zones
« on: December 21, 2018, 01:04:29 PM »
The point where an earthquake occurs is known as the epi-centre.  From this point two types of waves spread out away from the epi-centre. P or pressure waves pass through the Earth and return to the surface at distance away from the epi-centre point. However there is a zone between 103 and 150 degrees away from the epi-centre where the P waves are not detected.  The other type of wave, the S or shock wave also spread out from the epi-centre. However the shadow zone for S waves is much larger since S waves do not pass through the core of the Earth at all.


How does FET theory explain these patterns given that FE believers cannot acknowledge a 'core' as such if their model of the Earth is only made up of layers.  I beleive it was Tom who commented about a 'molten layer' instead of a molten core.

Doesn't appear to be any mention at all of earthquakes in FE Wiki. Does that mean they don't happen in FE theory?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 01:18:57 PM by ShootingStar »

Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2018, 02:11:36 PM »
Seismic waves prove the Earth is flat:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg956136#msg956136

Doesn't appear to be any mention at all of earthquakes in FE Wiki.

There are plenty of other things/experiments which are not mentioned in the FEW and which would debunk immediately any other FE model; as an example, the FEW does not mention the orbital Sagnac effect which proves that the Earth is stationary (does not rotate or travel upwards).

Offline JCM

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Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2018, 02:50:17 PM »
Seismic waves prove the Earth is flat:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg956136#msg956136

Doesn't appear to be any mention at all of earthquakes in FE Wiki.

There are plenty of other things/experiments which are not mentioned in the FEW and which would debunk immediately any other FE model; as an example, the FEW does not mention the orbital Sagnac effect which proves that the Earth is stationary (does not rotate or travel upwards).

Sandokhan, your link provides no evidence of anything.  Just because some people dig holes and found interesting things or not what was expected by an individual do you ignore the earthquake readings indicating a spherical Earth.  No where in your diatribe did you speak of the way the energy moves around the planet, which happens to only work on a sphere.   How do you have molten layers on a flat Earth?  Why are they molten and why wouldn’t they just fall out the sides? The second post you made there was about Nibiru aka the Moon in front of the Sun, total complete nonsense which no one will defend on this site. 

ShootingStar

Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2018, 04:12:24 PM »
Come on Tom, as the 'spokesperson' for FET I want to know how you explain these patterns in the earthquake waves. While I wait for your answer I will try to come up with a concept in my mind of how these patterns could possibly be replicated on a flat Earth.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2018, 04:44:26 PM »
You don't need my involvement in every discussion. Debate yourself if no one is posting. Take one of those diagrams of the waves reflecting off of the inside of the Earth's interior and then stretch it out flat to see what the reflectivity patterns would look like.

ShootingStar

Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2018, 05:25:41 PM »
Reflection has nothing to with it Tom.  This is all about refraction and the fact that shock waves cannot pass through the molten outer core of the Earth.

You are the fan of demonstrations Tom so since you brought it up, demonstrate to us how the same pattern can be created for a flat surface.  The RE version diagram is produced on loads of websites but I cannot find a single one which shows how earthquake wave patterns work over a flat surface. 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 05:31:34 PM by ShootingStar »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2018, 03:16:48 AM »
If the waves did go through the core and directly to the other side of the earth, that would be good evidence for a Round Earth.

The fact that it doesn't can be interpreted as evidence for a flat one.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2018, 03:39:19 AM »
Take one of those diagrams of the waves reflecting off of the inside of the Earth's interior and then stretch it out flat to see what the reflectivity patterns would look like.
What the patterns look like would depend greatly on the thickness of the various layers of the flat earth.  An accurate map of the flat earth would also be necessary in order to properly triangulate the epicenter of the origin point of the seismic waves and the subsequent propagation of those waves.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2018, 05:10:17 AM »
There are plenty of other things/experiments which are not mentioned in the FEW and which would debunk immediately any other FE model; as an example, the FEW does not mention the orbital Sagnac effect which proves that the Earth is stationary (does not rotate or travel upwards).

Sandokan, look into the vertical michelson-morley experiments.

Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2018, 08:39:52 AM »
look into the vertical michelson-morley experiments.

You must understand that the MMX interferometer = the SGX interferometer, they are equivalent.

This much was proven by one of the greatest experts on the Sagnac experiment of the 20th century, E.J. Post.

E. J. Post, A joint description of the Michelson Morley and Sagnac experiments.
Proceedings of the International Conference Galileo Back in Italy II, Bologna 1999,
Andromeda, Bologna 2000, p. 62

E. J. Post is the only person to notice the substantial identity  between the 1925 experiment and that of 1887:

"To avoid possible confusion, it may be  remarked that the beam path in the more well-known Michelson-Morley interferometer, which was mounted on a turntable, does not enclose a finite surface area; therefore no fringe shift can be expected as a result of a uniform rotation of the latter".

E. J. Post, Reviews of Modern Physics. Vol. 39, n. 2, April 1967

What, then, did Michelson and Morley actually measure?

A. Michelson and E. Morley SIMPLY MEASURED THE CORIOLIS EFFECT OF THE ETHER DRIFT. Since they did not use a phase-conjugate mirror or a fiber optic equipment, the Coriolis force effects ("attractive" and "repulsive") upon the light offset each other.

The positive (slight deviations) from the null result are due to a residual surface enclosed by the multiple path beam (the Coriolis effect registered by a Sagnac interferometer). Dayton Miller also measured the Coriolis effect of the ether drift in his experiment (Mount Wilson, 1921-1924 and 1925-1926, and Cleveland, 1922-1924).

Dr. Patrick Cornille (Essays on the Formal Aspects of Electromagnetic Theory, pg. 141):



Dr. Patrick Cornille (Advanced Electromagnetism and Vacuum Physics, 2003, pg. 150-157) has provided a thorough examination of the fact that the Michelson-Morley interferometer is actually a Sagnac interferometer with zero area.




Here is your vertical SGX experiment:



The technology used in Doug Marrett's vertical Sagnac interferometer is the most advanced so far.

It uses a fiber-optic gyroscope (FOG).

http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/Sagnac/SagnacEarth.html

The experiment detected the CORIOLIS EFFECT, just like Michelson and Gale did.

BUT NOT THE SAGNAC EFFECT.

The vertical MMX or SGX does not record the SAGNAC EFFECT AT ALL.

Two very different formulas.

Here is the Coriolis effect formula:

Δt = 4AΩ/c^2

It is a physical effect, and it is directly proportional to the area of the interferometer.

By contrast, the Sagnac effect formula is an electromagnetic effect, and is directly proportional to the velocity.



Here is the correct derivation of the Sagnac effect formula for an interferometer whose center of rotation does not coincide with its geometrical center:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2117351#msg2117351


Therefore, all vertical MMX/SGX interferometer only measure the Coriolis effect, but not the Sagnac effect.

This means that the Earth does not move in a vertical direction at all.

Here is another experiment, performed by two of the greatest physicists in the world today:

The other question one might ask is at what level curvature is important--if it is circular motion which causes the Sagnac effect as Ashby claims, how much does the path have to deviate from a straight line to cause the effect? At Los Angeles the earth rotates about 27 meters during the nominal 70 millisecond transit time of the signal from satellite to receiver. The deviation of the 27 meter movement from the straight line chord distance is only 35 microns at its largest point. It certainly seems incredible that a 35 micron deviation from a straight line could induce a 27 meter change in the measured range.


As a final proof that it is movement of the receiver which is significant--not whether that movement is in a curved or straight line path--a test was run using the highly precise differential carrier phase solution. The reference site was stationary on the earth and assumed to properly apply the Sagnac effect. However, at the remote site the antenna was moved up and down 32 centimeters (at Los Angeles) over an eight second interval. The result of the height movement was that the remote receiver followed a straight line path with respect to the center of the earth.

The Sagnac effect was still applied at the remote receiver. The result was solved for position that simply moved up and down in height the 32 centimeters with rms residuals
which were unchanged (i.e. a few millimeters). If a straight line path did not need the Sagnac adjustment to the ranges the rms residuals should have increased to multiple meters. This shows again that it is any motion--not just circular motion which causes the Sagnac effect.

http://web.stcloudstate.edu/ruwang/ION58PROCEEDINGS.pdf

(Conducting a Crucial Experiment of the Constancy of the Speed of Light Using GPS, R. Wang/R. Hatch)


The Universe has an edge; a direct proof using the DARK FLOW data:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1936995#msg1936995

Therefore, your precious UAFE must have an elliptical orbit, and not a straight vertical path.

How does the UAFE accelerator know where the edge of the universe is located, thus having the capacity to modify its trajectory/eccentricity accordingly?



As for the seismic waves debate, again, here is the direct proof that these types of waves are possible only on a flat earth:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg956136#msg956136
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 09:38:59 AM by sandokhan »

ShootingStar

Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2018, 09:23:15 AM »
Quote
If the waves did go through the core and directly to the other side of the earth, that would be good evidence for a Round Earth.

That's exactly what P wave do Tom. Surely you checked that first. They pass through the core (after undergoing a certain amount of refraction as they pass through the core) and are then detected on the other side of the world. Just do a simple search for earthquake wave patterns and you will find loads of them so there is no reason to post one here as well.

There are lots of geologists and earthquake experts who can both testify and demonstrate this to you.  There are regions at various angular distances from the epi-centre where P waves and S waves are not received. These are the shadow zones which are caused by the solid and molten core.

ShootingStar

Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2018, 11:51:35 AM »
Quote
Take one of those diagrams of the waves reflecting off of the inside of the Earth's interior and then stretch it out flat to see what the reflectivity patterns would look like

I will be happy to try that Tom. Can you provide some figures or proportions of how thick the various layers of the FE are and how many there are please?  We need to make it a fair comparison. On the RE model side, the full radius of Earth is given as, give or take a few km (I don't have depth gauge that long handy) 6,300km, the inner (solid core) is 1,200km and the outer (molten core) is 2,200km. So taking a slice of the Earths internal structure the total thickness of the core (solid +molten) is 3,400km which is 53% of the total Earth radius. The remainder is taken up by the mantle and the crust (whose thickness varies according to oceanic (SIMA) crust which is thinner or continental (SIAL) crust which is thicker.

I just need you to come up with a similar description of the FE structure along with the thickness of the various layers.


If Tom can't or won't provide some data on this then anyone from the FE side please feel free..
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 04:15:46 PM by ShootingStar »

ShootingStar

Re: Earthquake wave shadow zones
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2018, 11:58:54 PM »
Still no reply from Tom or any other FE people regarding my request.  As another 'spokesperson' for the FE community Pete, can you offer any information about the number, name and thickness of the FE layers? Or is this something else that FET hasn't fully decided on yet?