Poll

Are you a troll?

Yes
No
On the notion of trolling
« on: November 04, 2018, 01:17:57 AM »
I just watched an interview with some pious lefty screaming about trolling and how people should go to prison because 'words hurt' and its damage and they are victims etc etc. By the end of the interview I think she'd only be happy if the internet is turned off forever.

But her view of how trolls are evil, and my ... *clears throat* ... yes, I have trolled in my life. But I don't think its evil. In fact I have a theory. And that's why I made a poll.

My theory
Personally, I troll because I have a curious mind. I want to know how other people think and feel about things. And a great way to do that is to get a rise out of them on the internet. When someone loses their tempter, that's the only time they'll tell you what they really think of you or your ideas. So I might set up an account on a forum somewhere or comment in news or youtube. And my comment might not necessarily be my opinion. Its an idea or discussion point. So example. Need to pick something people can't normally talk about. Something taboo. Could be racism, homosexuality, something that isn't done in polite conversation. For this example I'll pick sibling incest.

So if you ask people is it ok for people to have consensual sibling sex, society says no. However when you ask individuals, many of them say yes. If you then ask them if they would do it themselves even if they liked their sibling, they all say no. How is it ok for other people but not ok for you? It gets complicated.


Getting to the bottom of what other people think is very easy on the internet. You can't ask your mates if they'd like to have sex with their sisters. You certainly can't ask your parents if incest with siblings is fine. You can't ask
a policeman or a colleague at work. Even your best mate will look at you with suspicion after a conversation like that. But I think if you have a curious mind you want to know what goes on in other people's heads ... and there is nothing like trolling to prize that out of them. Be it the IQs of different races, transgenderism ... what is it, is it an illness, is it perversion, are they born that way? You can't poll lots of people quickly on a subject like that in real life and they will often lie or throw accusations your way. One thing about the anonymity of the internet is that not only does it mean that people can lie a lot, it also means they can be utterly honest in a way real life doesn't allow for.

And this is why I think politicians and rabid leftists misunderstand the internet. To me it is a manifestation of the human mind. Of all minds all at once. Every thought possible is on here. Every opinion. And none of it is real. The internet is no more real than any of my thoughts because that is all it is ... a collection of thoughts. Some offensive, some taboo, some wicked, some creative etc. And when you have the mind of humanity at your disposal to play with and experiment with, I have to think only a moron wouldn't troll with it.

Finally, I made this thread as I make most threads to find out how other people think about things. And in this case do you all troll like me? Do you deliberately wind up people on the BBC or youtube or wherever in order to find out more about how people tick? And as always I'm asking because I have an opinion and want to see if its unique to me, rare or very common. Maybe people do it for other reasons? But, if many people do it for my reasons and everyone in the world has tried it at least once, that's 3 billion troll posts right there. And that explains why the internet is so full of trolling. Its just people exploring the dark recesses of the human condition ... and so why would you look to censor that? For those that can't handle it, stop using it. Same as watching a horror movie if you're sensitive. but that also tells me the internet isn't as dangerous as many make out. We've all thought about killing someone at one time. Very few would actually do it. Its just a thought, and so are the things written on the internet.

I should add, I don't ask the question because I want the answer. I ask the question because I always want to know what other people think the answer is. That's more interesting to me.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 01:35:00 AM by Baby Thork »
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6648
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2018, 01:59:47 AM »
Much of what is modernly called "trolling" was previously just called being a devil's advocate. Most people don't see a difference between holding an extreme stance for the sport of debate (devil's advocate) versus someone holding an extreme position for the purpose of angering others (trolling). I think this is a purposeful conflation induced by media to help stifle debates among different ideas. Go to a major social media site and hold a conservative stance, you'll immediately become a Russian troll. Hold a liberal stance on some more right-leaning sites and you magically become an NPC. The lack of conversation between these stances will result in more extreme politics and in many ways it already has.

Also, Thork, we understand you're really into incest. You don't need to keep  telling us about it.

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2018, 02:13:30 AM »
I don't think most people are as extreme as the media make out. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. They read the extreme views on the internet, most people pick one side or the other and then print it as fact in the news. I think this is why you have Trump. Clinton was very left wing. She was playing identity politics saying how you had to vote for her if you were black or a woman. And trump was saying things like stop with the fake news and people have the right to free speech. And of the two, he actually sounded more moderate. Sure, he has some weird ideas about walls and grabbing women by the pussy, but overall he isn't an ideologue, he's just an idiot. And the latter is less extreme. I don't think people are that far apart in ideas. The public is broadly in the middle and they are being forced to choose between extremes. It isn't the same thing. Brexit or not Brexit. Those are two opposites. Either in or out. there isn't any common ground there, you have to pick one extreme or the other. But pretty much everyone agrees broadly that we don't want to be poorer, we don't want to be isolated as a nation and we do want to carry on trading with the rest of Europe. But you have to pick from the extremes. And people explore the extremes in dialogue on the internet.


Also I think I've mentioned incest on this site about 3 times in what 5 years? I probably talk about shoes more often on here. But the reason you remember that is because its the taboo conversation. The one you don't have every day. And to me, that's what makes such a conversation worth having occasionally to find out what other people think on the matter. I also don't make a huge number of alt-right posts ... but my god you all remember them when I do and remind me about them for weeks and weeks afterwards.
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

*

Offline junker

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8419
  • Boom
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2018, 03:02:42 AM »
Also I think I've mentioned incest on this site about 3 times in what 5 years?

Technically, yes, but those 3 times have also been in the past few months.

Also, aren't you like 40? It is probably time to move on from trolling people like an angsty teenager going through puberty.
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

1. The Rules

2. The FAQ

3. The Wiki

You're doing God's work, junker.

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2018, 06:49:10 AM »
Trolling has its place but as the collective mind of humanity, you can't trust such conversations.  Anymosity is powerful and it can reveal truth, but it can also produce lies.


A troll trolling another troll, for example.  Neither is honest, just taking an extreme position or attitude because they want to.


You also have peer pressure.  The concept that, even online, you need to agree with the social group you're part of.  One troll can lean that group into a more extreme direction than they'd have without.


You can also have several trolls dominate a conversation, promting people in the opposition to assume the whole group agrees and is as extreme as the trolls.


You are right: most people are moderate and want the same thing.  The problem is that its easy to get into a bubble of only like minds, to start seeing anyone different as stupid, wrong, or evil.  And on the internet where consequences are less, there isn't anything to tell your brain to stop.  Empathy is harder to feel.  Fear of retaliation is practically non-existent.  And as a result, that thing you'd never say because its wrong, you say because you can.  You let yourself do it and that, too, can make you slide away.






Summary: be around angry people online, you'll become angry.

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2018, 11:25:44 AM »
Also, aren't you like 40? It is probably time to move on from trolling people like an angsty teenager going through puberty.
Yes, teenagers are certainly less interesting than real people and of course real people are usually the 'target'. I would happily troll on the BBC news website or someone who made a mature comment in say youtube. I don't sign up to fortnite to do it in the chat there. I'm sure kids do, but kids are interested in what other kids think in a way that I am not.

And yes, incest is something I'm interested to ask about. Many liberals think its ok. I'm not a liberal. I'm interested as to why they think its ok when its not a position I share.

Trolling has its place but as the collective mind of humanity, you can't trust such conversations.  Anymosity is powerful and it can reveal truth, but it can also produce lies.

A troll trolling another troll, for example.  Neither is honest, just taking an extreme position or attitude because they want to.

You also have peer pressure.  The concept that, even online, you need to agree with the social group you're part of.  One troll can lean that group into a more extreme direction than they'd have without.

You can also have several trolls dominate a conversation, promting people in the opposition to assume the whole group agrees and is as extreme as the trolls.

You are right: most people are moderate and want the same thing.  The problem is that its easy to get into a bubble of only like minds, to start seeing anyone different as stupid, wrong, or evil.  And on the internet where consequences are less, there isn't anything to tell your brain to stop.  Empathy is harder to feel.  Fear of retaliation is practically non-existent.  And as a result, that thing you'd never say because its wrong, you say because you can.  You let yourself do it and that, too, can make you slide away.

Summary: be around angry people online, you'll become angry.
You are one of those people who always thinks everyone isn't as smart as you. Other people will be persuaded, other people will be manipulated, other people will be dragged into believing this that and the other. Sure, there are 'vulnerable adults' but those are people you'd say had learning difficulties if you met them in real life. Most people do not 'slide away' having read things on the internet.

Only 1 in 4 people believe news they see on social media.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/22/just-one-in-four-britons-trust-news-on-social-media-finds-survey

 (your mileage may vary, turns out the UK are some of the most sceptical people on planet earth statistically)


And if that is trust in media sources, how much to people trust comments?

The media (which no one trusts) would have it that large swathes of the population are easily persuaded by what they read online, and vote in certain ways etc. But the data suggests it isn't the case. And talking to people even on here ... I've spent years trying to beat it out of you that being a leftist is reprehensible. And yet you are still a frothy mouthed Marxist. I am unable to change your mind with a consistent campaign of mind-bending propaganda. How am I supposed to do that with a single tweet? Or a youtube comment? How many people have we convinced that the earth is flat even when what we are telling them is the truth? But we can learn a lot about why they think those things, and that usually isn't based on fact and science.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 11:29:41 AM by Baby Thork »
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2018, 04:59:39 PM »
It's not about intelligence.  Plenty of smart people believe in God or deny climate change.  It's never about how smart you are, just what your opinions are.
It's also never about swapping sides.  I'm not gonna go full on conservative anytime soon (though you saw me start to step into it).  And most people are moderates.  But getting a moderate left to a Left is much easier. 

Memes spread by family and freinds carry far more weight then anything you would say to me simply because I value their opinions in a way I do not yours.  You are, basically, just some guy on the internet I know.  No offence.  So when I see someone I care about post something that sounds extreme and may or may not be something they fully agree with but they post it anyway, I'm gonna think they do and either support them or not.  And if friends and family and social circles are all showing some extreme stuff, well, it's not a long hop to go from Moderate-Left to Left to Far left. 

Slippery Slope, in essence.
It's all psychology and everyone (even me) is vulnerable to it. 

Also, I may not be switching sides anytime soon, but you saw me dip my toe in with the freedom of speech stuff I talked about last week.  That's a very right side stance to take.
And finally: We may not trust social media based news, but we sure as hell read it.
http://www.journalism.org/2018/09/10/news-use-across-social-media-platforms-2018/

And whose talking about news when it's memes and trolls.  Literally the opposite of news?

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2018, 06:26:23 PM »
You are becoming conservative because you are getting older ... ie you have more experience of life. Everyone moves to the right as they get older. Only an idiot could hold onto Marxist ideologies as they gain experience of life. It has nothing to do with anything anyone tells you here. You have to see for yourself in life how creating a superstate that sucks all the wealth from its citizens and redistributes those in welfare programs is a stupid idea.

Interesting you pick believing in God or denying climate change as examples of things you wouldn't associate with intelligence. It's as if you are again saying, these people don't agree with me and therefore I expect them to be stupid.
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2018, 07:00:41 PM »
You are becoming conservative because you are getting older ... ie you have more experience of life. Everyone moves to the right as they get older. Only an idiot could hold onto Marxist ideologies as they gain experience of life. It has nothing to do with anything anyone tells you here. You have to see for yourself in life how creating a superstate that sucks all the wealth from its citizens and redistributes those in welfare programs is a stupid idea.

Interesting you pick believing in God or denying climate change as examples of things you wouldn't associate with intelligence. It's as if you are again saying, these people don't agree with me and therefore I expect them to be stupid.


Interesting how you've decided to focus mainly on a minor point I made...


Also, belief in God requires 0 intelligence.  And typically, the more you understand how you the world works, the less sense God makes.


Climate change is literally just ignoring data.  The main point I was making was that you can be biased to an idea that goes against logic and reason even if you are very intelligent.  Because even the smartest people have ideas that they just don't want to part with.


But here's another: anti-vaxxers.


Oh and ps. I live in a functional welfare state.  So suck it.

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6648
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2018, 07:08:53 PM »
Also, belief in God requires 0 intelligence.  And typically, the more you understand how you the world works, the less sense God makes.

This doesn't add up. You can't functionally prove whether or not a deity exists, regardless of how much or how little you understand the world.

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2018, 07:48:47 PM »
Let's take climate change, Dave.

What data? Environmental Studies is a $multi-billion industry. It was always going to be a money spinner from the time it ended up on national curricula around the world. The last significant change before that was adding computer science to national curricula.

Now climate change is funded by governments asking for research. So when asked "is everything OK" you can answer, sure, everything is fine in which case you get no more money. Or you can say "the end of he world is nigh and we need more money to tell you exactly when and how to stop it".

Overall data just shows we are more or less in the margins of error expected over millions of years of ice age cycles.

I would also add, what kind of scientists are climate scientists and environmental scientists? And the answer is  ... shitty ones. The ones not smart enough to do maths, physics or engineering. To do climate studies at Wolverhampton university in the UK you need 80 UCAS points ... 4 D's at A-level. That thick shit who isn't getting on a maths course anywhere is now going to get on the course with all the other thickos and they will be given a certificate of attendance by a university that just wants more students and suddenly they are a scientist. A scientist that likely can't even spell scientific method and yet you'll beat me up with "experts say ...". Experts? That's the kid in my class that stapled his own pants to a notice board. Its the guy who gave blow jobs round the back of the bike sheds for extra cash instead of going to class. That's your expert. And he is being peer reviewed by the girl who thought you could only get pregnant if you swallowed.

They are incapable of reading a graph like this ...


As for your
Also, belief in God requires 0 intelligence.
I'd argue you just found yourself in the unhappy valley.

Sure, an idiot will accept God exists.
A smarter man will challenge that. He's likely to be very depressed like Stephen Fry or someone who drinks every day like Ricky Gervais.
But a smarter man still will look at the idiots and realise they are happier like that and suddenly realise what blind faith is and why being happy is more important than being right. Enter for example, Jordan Peterson.




« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 08:11:41 PM by Baby Thork »
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2018, 10:13:40 PM »
Also, belief in God requires 0 intelligence.  And typically, the more you understand how you the world works, the less sense God makes.

This doesn't add up. You can't functionally prove whether or not a deity exists, regardless of how much or how little you understand the world.
True, but the words/texts of said God, which is the whole basis of what the god is, stops working.  Like Noah's ark.  Once you figure out that there are more animals in the world than could fit on any boat, you start doubting it.  Faith with doubt is not faith.  And when you start figuring out things like vaccines and weather patterns and evolution, the idea that God controls everything starts looking remote.  So all you have left, logically, is a God who started the universe then stepped back. 

And once we figure out THAT mystery (if we do) it'll make God even less likely.And all this, of course, can be wiped away and ignored by simply having faith.

Let's take climate change, Dave.

What data? Environmental Studies is a $multi-billion industry. It was always going to be a money spinner from the time it ended up on national curricula around the world. The last significant change before that was adding computer science to national curricula.

Now climate change is funded by governments asking for research. So when asked "is everything OK" you can answer, sure, everything is fine in which case you get no more money. Or you can say "the end of he world is nigh and we need more money to tell you exactly when and how to stop it".

Overall data just shows we are more or less in the margins of error expected over millions of years of ice age cycles.

I would also add, what kind of scientists are climate scientists and environmental scientists? And the answer is  ... shitty ones. The ones not smart enough to do maths, physics or engineering. To do climate studies at Wolverhampton university in the UK you need 80 UCAS points ... 4 D's at A-level. That thick shit who isn't getting on a maths course anywhere is now going to get on the course with all the other thickos and they will be given a certificate of attendance by a university that just wants more students and suddenly they are a scientist. A scientist that likely can't even spell scientific method and yet you'll beat me up with "experts say ...". Experts? That's the kid in my class that stapled his own pants to a notice board. Its the guy who gave blow jobs round the back of the bike sheds for extra cash instead of going to class. That's your expert. And he is being peer reviewed by the girl who thought you could only get pregnant if you swallowed.

They are incapable of reading a graph like this ...

You're getting off topic.  You're also trying to tell me that experts are terrible because they can't read graphs made by experts.... who aren't terrible?  Seriously, you're cherry picking and painting a specific group as bad.
Which brings us BACK on topic: The why.  Why do you assume "experts" are bad because they don't come to the same conclusion you do?  The answer?  You don't like the answer, because you hate the results that came about that answer.  The UK had taxes increased, plus, I'm sure, all the little changes that were forced into effect. 

In essence: Climate Change has hurt you.  Thus, you, like many others, have decided that it's wrong and you find any and every excuse or reason for it.  There's also the people who look at the data, can't figure out why it is what it is, and just assume it's wrong, but I don't think you fit into that category.

See, you're not evil.  You don't want the world to be changed radically.  You don't want massive flooding.  But if you say "Climate Change is real but we shouldn't do anything about it" well... you're evil.  But if you say "Climate Change isn't real and here's why..." then it's fine and everything can go back to the way it was.




Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2018, 01:01:46 PM »
The instant you incentivise dreadful science with masses of cash, every charlatan on the planet comes out from under a rock, no matter how bad the science is.



How much are governments spending on climate change?
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 5143
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2018, 01:06:51 PM »
Good question, one you, as a climate change denier and vociferous critic, should look in to.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2018, 05:10:56 PM »
The instant you incentivise dreadful science with masses of cash, every charlatan on the planet comes out from under a rock, no matter how bad the science is.



How much are governments spending on climate change?
Once you threaten to take away incentives with science, all sorts of charlatan, looking to keep the status quo comes out.

Also, I have no time for videos.

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2018, 07:58:23 PM »
Also, I have no time for videos.
Yeah, what would be the point of using the fastest learning mechanism known to man? A medium that can condense War & Peace down to 3hrs 28mins by conveying information both visually and through audio at the same time. 

Would you prefer my sources in semaphore, morse code or smoke signals in future?
Rate this post.      👍 6     👎 1

*

Offline junker

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8419
  • Boom
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2018, 08:02:19 PM »
Also, I have no time for videos.
Yeah, what would be the point of using the fastest learning mechanism known to man? A medium that can condense War & Peace down to 3hrs 28mins by conveying information both visually and through audio at the same time. 

Would you prefer my sources in semaphore, morse code or smoke signals in future?

I mean, Dave is wrong about nearly everything related to social/political topics, but I agree with him here. Videos are awful.
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

1. The Rules

2. The FAQ

3. The Wiki

You're doing God's work, junker.

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2018, 08:48:58 PM »
I used to troll a lot

Especially when those Nigerian scam emails flooded your inbox back in the day. BOY did I have fun with some of those losers!

I think trolling is fine as long as you not a sadistic POS telling people they should drink bleach or whatever.

As for myself on sibling incest? I dont think the government should concern itself with what 2 consenting adults get up to in their bedroom  :P


Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2018, 09:45:08 PM »
Also, I have no time for videos.
Yeah, what would be the point of using the fastest learning mechanism known to man? A medium that can condense War & Peace down to 3hrs 28mins by conveying information both visually and through audio at the same time. 

Would you prefer my sources in semaphore, morse code or smoke signals in future?

I mean, Dave is wrong about nearly everything related to social/political topics, but I agree with him here. Videos are awful.


If I'm wrong about all that then I may as well just quit cause clearly I'm wrong about everything these days.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 10:33:51 PM by Lord Dave »

Re: On the notion of trolling
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2018, 11:03:57 AM »
Also, I have no time for videos.
Yeah, what would be the point of using the fastest learning mechanism known to man? A medium that can condense War & Peace down to 3hrs 28mins by conveying information both visually and through audio at the same time. 

Would you prefer my sources in semaphore, morse code or smoke signals in future?

I mean, Dave is wrong about nearly everything related to social/political topics, but I agree with him here. Videos are awful.


If I'm wrong about all that then I may as well just quit cause clearly I'm wrong about everything these days.

Don't quit, I like you, you bring some diversity of opinion to the site. You remind me of another user on the other site I once had good discussions with.

He was a Master and not a Lord however.