Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2018, 10:18:35 PM »
Thank you, Dionysios. Perhaps I will go to next year's.

I do not have any problem with scripture being used as evidence myself, since scripture, whether you believe the spiritual nature or not, represents our previous knowledge of the world. It is the handed-down knowledge of the ancients; of how many civilizations before ours believed the world worked. That they deduced that the earth was flat and that the sun moved is of importance, and should not be discarded. Of interest is that we can point out that all of humanity empirically deduced one thing, as it was the most readily and apparent, while later researchers went to great lengths to provide "proofs" for their alternate theory (which do not stand up to scrutiny), apparently under the knowledge that they were trying to convince others against the empirical nature of our world.
The simple task of determining the shape of the earth using measured distances, path of the sun, etc. stands up to full scrutiny.

Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2018, 11:42:18 AM »
I do not have any problem with scripture being used as evidence myself
I do. Well. It depends of what you're using it as evidence of. If it's of scientific concepts then that is misguided. That is not what Scripture is trying to teach us.

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since scripture, whether you believe the spiritual nature or not, represents our previous knowledge of the world. It is the handed-down knowledge of the ancients; of how many civilizations before ours believed the world worked.

No, that is not what Scripture is. Scripture itself tells you what it is and what it is for:

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

It is not a scientific textbook, it is revealing deeper truths and teaching me different things than the stuff like the shape of the earth or how far the sun is.
Even if you don't believe Scripture is true, it's still clear what it's purpose is. Conversely, no-one should look in a science book and think they'll find the meaning of life in there.

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That they deduced that the earth was flat and that the sun moved is of importance, and should not be discarded.

It neither should be discarded nor should it be held up as evidence of veracity. The ancients believed lots of things, some right, some wrong. They believed everything was made of 4 elements: water, fire, air and earth. We now know better. Anyone using that ancient belief as evidence that it's true because the ancients believed it would be laughed out of the room.

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Of interest is that we can point out that all of humanity empirically deduced one thing, as it was the most readily and apparent
Yes, if you knew nothing about science at all and just walked around and looked around then the obvious conclusion would be that you're living on a flat plane and that the sun and stars go around that. Note, you would obviously believe that the sun goes under the plane of the earth at night and the stars go under it during the day. That would be the natural conclusion from a local perspective with no knowledge of science or ability to quickly travel or communicate across long distances, you'd think that night would be night everywhere and day would be day everywhere. The idea of time-zones and other places being in light when you're in the dark would be hard to fathom without ways of travelling or communicating across large distances quickly.
As I've said in other threads, your senses are not sufficient for determining reality.

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while later researchers went to great lengths to provide "proofs" for their alternate theory (which do not stand up to scrutiny), apparently under the knowledge that they were trying to convince others against the empirical nature of our world.
We will have to agree to disagree about whether they stand up under scrutiny, but most of the "scrutiny" I see from your posts on here is you simply not understanding scientific ideas and thus concluding they are wrong. If there was any lingering doubt about the shape of the earth (which there wasn't, frankly) then it ended when the space race started and we started getting real pictures of the globe earth. To dig your heels in and call all that fake and still claim the earth is flat is cognitive dissonance writ large.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 11:44:33 AM by AllAroundTheWorld »
"This is literally just a few people talking about it for a brief time every day on their spare time. That’s the flat earth movement" - Tom Bishop

Offline Dionysios

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Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2018, 11:31:11 PM »
Thank you for the recap, Dionysios. That was really interesting to read about.

Much appreciate. There are more worthwhile and interesting aspects I can mention, but I’d first like to mention an idea I’ve got because of its potential.

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Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2018, 11:44:45 PM »
Thank you, Dionysios. Perhaps I will go to next year's.

Next year’s major USA conference will be in Dallas. The Canadian FE 2019 conference will be in Toronto. FYI, there will also be a California flat earth conference in Yorba Linda (L.A. area) in late February 2019 (around the corner).

I’ve got an idea. Tom, I have to say if it becomes feasible even if it means the 2020 conference, then you should be a speaker - especially on Rowbotham and on anything else you saw fit. You’ve got the quality of information & Robbie Davidson has the platform. If that connection was made, then we all benefit.

As far as that goes, I wouldn’t mind speaking myself about Cosmas Indicopleustes. I plan to do a follow-up tape recorded lecture in Oregon focusing on Cosmas Indicopleustes in two parts:
1) history of ancient flat earth belief
2) the ancient Christian model characteristics and their continuance through Middle Ages and contrast with Rowbotham model

Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2018, 11:46:20 PM »
FYI, there will also be a California flat earth conference in Yorba Linda (L.A. area) in late February 2019 (around the corner).

Depending on the price of admission, I'll go to that.

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Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2018, 02:02:18 AM »
FYI, there will also be a California flat earth conference in Yorba Linda (L.A. area) in late February 2019 (around the corner).

Depending on the price of admission, I'll go to that

Judging by the lineup of speakers, the Yorba Linda, CA conference will be bible heavy compared to the big one in Denver which had a more even distribution.  Especially, Jeran Campanella from California (Bay area) and David Weiss of NYC (both agnostic) were in Denver but will be absent from this one. Just FYI.

Yorba Linda, CA FE Conference
Speaker Roster
http://www.qe2019.com/speakers1

http://www.qe2019.com
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 02:09:20 AM by Dionysios »

Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2018, 02:37:21 AM »
The "bible heavy" thing doesn't bother me. I'm evangelical non-denominational Christian (Calvary Chapel) though not fundamentalist and a little bit of a progressive renegade among the congregation. So I'm comfortable with Young Earth Creationists and literalists even if I don't subscribe to that brand of Christianity and scripture interpretation myself. I just would like to lurk.

But this looks to be much more than a flat earth conference. They're scheduled to cover quite a litany of subjects. I don't think I want to wade through the whole Question Everything slate. We'll see.

Edit: Nope. Too expensive for the merely curious.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 02:41:27 AM by Bobby Shafto »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2018, 06:13:17 PM »
I’ve got an idea. Tom, I have to say if it becomes feasible even if it means the 2020 conference, then you should be a speaker - especially on Rowbotham and on anything else you saw fit. You’ve got the quality of information & Robbie Davidson has the platform. If that connection was made, then we all benefit.

As far as that goes, I wouldn’t mind speaking myself about Cosmas Indicopleustes. I plan to do a follow-up tape recorded lecture in Oregon focusing on Cosmas Indicopleustes in two parts:
1) history of ancient flat earth belief
2) the ancient Christian model characteristics and their continuance through Middle Ages and contrast with Rowbotham model

That sounds interesting, and I wouldn't mind speaking to them. However, the main barrier I have noticed is that Robbie seems to disparage the Flat Earth Society. His openings tend to include the "we are not the FES, they try to discredit FET with their accelerating earth theory" stump speech. And I've heard things along the lines of "we all hate the FES" from some of those speakers on a couple of occasions. I believe that those claims are unfounded, and some sort of reconciliation and better understanding needs to take place.

You may have seen that I am working on improving some of the Universal Accelerator content, to better communicate its strengths. Aside from that, having met them, is there anything else that you see should be done?

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Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2018, 05:45:18 AM »
I could mention the idea to a few of the speakers and friends most likely to be sympathetic.  I’ll also mention if I come upon other avenues which is entirely possible.

Just a thought is I’d say that their opposition to the “flat earth society” does share some common ground with why you guys departed from Daniel Shenton’s website in the first place which their movement followed after 3 to 4 years. In other words, there is some common ground there which could be exploited in facilitating reconciliation. As far as the universal accelerator goes, I don’t think there is any getting around that because it’s a genuine disagreement.

As far as content of a future presentation to that community, I could suggest emphasis on what drives success knowing the audience. Of course, never to hide what one believes, but I think any significant emphasis upon the universal accelerator to that particular audience would take off like a lead balloon. That would scuttle it rather than facilitate it. I’d say a mutually respectful agree to disagree would have to reign for that aspect of it for the reconcilement to occur.

Among other things, a much more thorough (and long standing) familiarity with ‘Earth Not a Globe’ and other flat earth literature than an audience who came into it through YouTube videos of Mark Sargent, Eric Dubay, and ODD is what brought the whole idea to mind. I’m sure there is plenty you could educate them about.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2018, 09:31:59 AM »
I recall that the last time Pete went onto the Globebusters show, he was mostly razzled about the Universal Accelerator. Globebusters was not hostile, but they were expecting him to defend his views, perhaps more out of curiosity than hostile disagreement. I would expect the same questions if I were to intermingle with the wider Flat Earth community, even if it is not brought up.

My main interest in this would be public relations with the wider community. I really don't know what the disinfo shill stuff is about.

Rowbotham is still the best way to learn about Flat Earth Theory. When I first learned of FE there was not much information online and I purchased a copy of Earth Not a Globe and read it with avid interest, which encouraged me to find all that I could on the matter. It is unfortunate that people no longer start from it, especially since all other works, books, articles, and YouTube videos, all build on top of its elements, whether those authors know it or not. Major parts of the Wiki probably should be rewritten or added onto under the knowledge that most people will probably never read ENAG.

I agree that a modern exposition of Rowbotham, especially of the Zetetic philosophy, would be beneficial, for both the FES and the wider community. The empirical tenets of proceeding only by inquiry, taking nothing for granted, and tracing phenomena to their immediate and demonstrable causes should be championed by all. This philosophy is of such great importance to science and the credibility of knowledge that, for me at least, it even surpasses the importance of the earth's shape.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 11:34:11 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: FE Conference Denver
« Reply #30 on: Today at 02:44:54 PM »
One thing I'd really like to do, and which I'm struggling to get much support with from the non-FES FE community, is to actually document the alternatives to UA. I've had some conversations with Globebusters and Ben Long to that effect, and while both said they'd contribute something, they've been fairly quiet so far.

There's a disagreement within the community, and that's fine. Much like how we showcase different maps, we could successfully portray multiple (non-)gravitational models while simply stating that one of them is preferred by the Society. I think it would go a long way towards alleviating some points of contention. After all, part of our mission statement is to document FET
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