1m Waves block 100m building
« on: October 09, 2018, 08:06:36 AM »
Because the waves are near and the building is far.
The waves on the horizon block the sight.

Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2018, 08:26:00 AM »
Depends on viewer height. There are 3 scenarios.

If your viewer height is above wave height then the wave will block less of the distant object than its own height because you are looking down and over it:



If your eye is at wave height then the wave blocks as much of the distant object as its own height as you are looking straight across the top of it:



If your eye is below wave height then yes, the wave will then block more of the distant object than the wave's own height:



And the closer the wave in this scenario, the more of the building it will block:



So, if your viewer height is low enough then waves would be an explanation for you not being able to see distant objects.
If you're at any reasonable altitude then unless there are massive waves - which there typically are not - then waves cannot be the explanation as you are above wave height and thus the waves cannot block the distant object. A dime CAN block your view of a distant elephant but only if you hold the dime close to your eye. Put the dime on the ground and you'd have to lie on the ground and close your other eye to get low enough that it can block anything.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2018, 01:55:41 PM »
Quote
A dime CAN block your view of a distant elephant but only if you hold the dime close to your eye.

Perspective attempts to bring the surface in the distance to eye level. Unless you have a solid demonstration on how perspective works, I don't see how your argument holds any weight.

Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2018, 02:03:22 PM »
Quote
A dime CAN block your view of a distant elephant but only if you hold the dime close to your eye.

Perspective attempts to bring the surface in the distance to eye level. Unless you have a solid demonstration on how perspective works, I don't see how your argument holds any weight.
Do some experiments and show me a photo of a dime hiding an elephant with the dime on the ground and the eye/camera height more than a couple of centimetres off the ground.
As elephants are not native to California I'll accept an elephant size object.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2018, 02:07:47 PM »
While you're doing that, here are the results of the experiment I did previously to demonstrate the effect I outline above:

The set up:



Eye above the level of the obstacles, less of the Jenga block height is occluded:



Eye At the level of the obstacles, exactly the Jenga block height is occluded:



Eye below the level of the obstacles, more than the Jenga block height is occluded:



I look forward to your experiment results.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Humble B

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2018, 02:19:09 PM »
Quote
A dime CAN block your view of a distant elephant but only if you hold the dime close to your eye.

Perspective attempts to bring the surface in the distance to eye level. Unless you have a solid demonstration on how perspective works, I don't see how your argument holds any weight.

Perspective is nothing else than a decreasing angle of sight lines as a result of a increasing distance. That decreasing angle can be calculated with simple trigonometry. When the viewing angles decrease, then the projection of the observed object on our retina becomes smaller.



 If the angle of sight line of a nearby dime is the same as the angle of sight lines of a far away elephant, both appear on our retina as equal in size.



He who believes windmills are his enemies, will take the gentle turning of their blades an act of aggression, and mistake their soft murmur for angry ranting.

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Offline markjo

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2018, 04:34:15 PM »
Quote
A dime CAN block your view of a distant elephant but only if you hold the dime close to your eye.

Perspective attempts to bring the surface in the distance to eye level. Unless you have a solid demonstration on how perspective works, I don't see how your argument holds any weight.
Tom, I'm not sure if I understand what you're getting at.  Exactly what part of perspective do you think needs to be demonstrated?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2018, 06:10:13 PM »
The author in the OP has composed several videos demonstrating that perspective is non-linear. If correct, it shows that perspective is not as it has been taught.

Where can we see something which demonstrates that perspective is as it is taught in schools?

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Offline stack

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2018, 06:32:57 PM »
Where can we see something which demonstrates that perspective is as it is taught in schools?

Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2018, 07:04:53 PM »
The author in the OP has composed several videos demonstrating that perspective is non-linear. If correct, it shows that perspective is not as it has been taught.

Where can we see something which demonstrates that perspective is as it is taught in schools?
And have shown some diagrams showing how a 1m wave cannot block a 100m building unless the viewer height is less than a meter.

I have also shown some pictures of an experiment I did some time back which shows my diagrams reflect reality.

If you feel there is some error in my conclusions then feel free to conduct your own experiment and publish the results for review.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline Bobby Shafto

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2018, 07:24:42 PM »
The author in the OP has composed several videos demonstrating that perspective is non-linear.

ICanScienceThat already demonstrated the same thing but you dismissed it.

HorstFue

Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2018, 07:28:53 PM »
Where can we see something which demonstrates that perspective is as it is taught in schools?

"something which"? You mean an object, a thing, a device?
There are millions if not billions of such devices, that automatically produce perspective images. Nearly everyone possesses at least one of these devices:

A camera

A camera produces a 2D projection of 3D real world on the image plane, using perspective.
If you don't like lenses, use a "camera obscure" or a "pinhole camera"
Quote
The camera obscura was used as a means to study eclipses, without the risk of damaging the eyes by looking into the sun directly. As a drawing aid, the camera obscura allowed tracing the projected image to produce a highly accurate representation, especially appreciated as an easy way to achieve a proper graphical perspective.

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Offline Bobby Shafto

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2018, 07:38:56 PM »
Because the waves are near and the building is far.
The waves on the horizon block the sight.
A 1m wave near me can block a view of a 100m tall object.

How can a 1m wave on the horizon block a 100m tall object beyond the horizon? I can see how that could be on a curved, convex surface but not on a flat surface.



Here's a 1m wave near -- not on the horizon but about 30m away. It's not blocking the 200m island in the distance that is beyond the globe earth horizon. The further away from me and closer to the horizon and island such a wave is, the smaller it appears to me due to perspective and the less of an obstacle it becomes. It only starts becoming an obstacle and blocking the more distant 100m island when it gets close to me.

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Offline Humble B

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2018, 08:49:11 PM »
If correct, it shows that perspective is not as it has been taught.

Sure, but the problem is, his non-linear perspective is demonstrably not correct.

Where can we see something which demonstrates that perspective is as it is taught in schools?

In the world around you.
But do not take that for granted; compare what you see with what is taught in schools.

He who believes windmills are his enemies, will take the gentle turning of their blades an act of aggression, and mistake their soft murmur for angry ranting.

HorstFue

Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2018, 09:18:40 PM »
Where can we see something which demonstrates that perspective is as it is taught in schools?
Ah sorry, forgot another 14 billion of "devices", that easily and effortless produce perspective images: Everyone (nearly) has two of them. Oh sorry again, must be many, many more: some insects have 8 of them.

Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2018, 11:15:51 PM »
About 8" of resolution creates a horizontal line at seven kilometers.
The waves on the horizon are at eye level.
The waves on the horizon look small, but they are enough to cover a farther building.
The secret lies at a angle.
Our eyes can't sense such a small angle.
That's why it's so hard to believe it.
In addition, the swells is higher than the waves.
Not only the waves, but the swells enough to block the sight.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 11:38:24 PM by zorbakim »

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Offline stack

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2018, 12:16:29 AM »
About 8" of resolution creates a horizontal line at seven kilometers.
The waves on the horizon are at eye level.
The waves on the horizon look small, but they are enough to cover a farther building.
The secret lies at a angle.
Our eyes can't sense such a small angle.
That's why it's so hard to believe it.
In addition, the swells is higher than the waves.
Not only the waves, but the swells enough to block the sight.

I totally appreciate the sentiment of waves (swells) being an obstruction. But they don't account for the fact that disappearing ships, hull first, disappear...completely. Unless your swells are, in every instance observed, growing at the rate, suspiciously, in exact occurrence, symbiotically, with the 'sinking' object, I see no reason to entertain the notion that your premise explains the effect.
Not much is known about the celestial bodies and their distances.

Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2018, 10:03:39 AM »
About 8" of resolution creates a horizontal line at seven kilometers.
The waves on the horizon are at eye level.
The waves on the horizon look small, but they are enough to cover a farther building.
The secret lies at a angle.
Our eyes can't sense such a small angle.
That's why it's so hard to believe it.
In addition, the swells is higher than the waves.
Not only the waves, but the swells enough to block the sight.

OK, so what you're saying amounts to in this diagram, let's imagine that last wave, the one nearest the building, is the wave at the horizon.



What your claim amounts to is that you can see the 1m wave, but you can't see the 100m building just beyond it.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Offline iamcpc

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2018, 04:25:08 PM »
Quote
A dime CAN block your view of a distant elephant but only if you hold the dime close to your eye.

Perspective attempts to bring the surface in the distance to eye level. Unless you have a solid demonstration on how perspective works, I don't see how your argument holds any weight.

Waves generally are only a few feet high. If those feet are close to the eye (like if you were floating in the ocean) they can block the view of hundreds of feet of far off buildings like so:



The problem is, during these pictures where buildings are obscured, they are standing on the land or shore above sea level like this:


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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: 1m Waves block 100m building
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2018, 06:20:04 PM »
Except that the surface is approaching eye level at the horizon where the diagram is marked.