Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« on: September 26, 2018, 04:02:43 PM »
I'm from the University of Nottingham Agnostic, Secularist and Humanist Society, in England. Our position is that the Earth is spherical. What we'd like to do is invite some Flat Earthers in to debate us in front of an audience. Therefore, I'm wondering if anyone on here would be able to advise me on finding people from your community to come and debate us?
Thanks!

Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2018, 06:53:42 PM »
University of Nottingham Agnostic, Secularist and Humanist Society
You are from a society that doesn't know what it thinks and yet your position is that the earth is round?

You haven't decided if there is a God or not (agnostic), but you are sure that the government should have nothing to do with God (secularism), and you are happy to swivel on a dime using the 19th century dogma of humanism, which is an old philosophy of rejecting dogma, that hasn't managed to root out the dogma of whether there is a God or not within your own organisation. That club is a bloody mess. I don't think you are collectively ready to tackle a question like the shape of the earth when you have so many internal disputes within your own club. How would you debate a flat earth creationist when you haven't even made up your minds if there is a God? How will you debate a flat earth conspiracy theorist when your only stance on government is that it shouldn't be religious? And how will you debate a flat earth Zetetic, when their approach is to reject dogma and you aren't able to accomplish that?

On a separate note, who joins a club like that at uni? Isn't there a Fortnite & Marujana club or something? There must be something in the water. Young people today are mentally ill.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 07:06:04 PM by Baby Thork »
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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2018, 07:41:00 PM »
And how will you debate a flat earth Zetetic, when their approach is to reject dogma and you aren't able to accomplish that?

Rather than asking how they might debate, why not debate them and find out?

As well, I think it's pretty clear that Zetetics are not much for rejecting dogma, actually quite rooted in it, you know, holy scriptures and such:

"The founding meeting of the Universal Zetetic Society was apparently held on Wednesday, September 21, 1892, at John Williams’s Southwark home. [ref. 4.2]  It’s not clear who besides Williams attended, though probably most of those selected to the UZS Committee were there.  The founders decided on a name, a motto, an object, and a set of rules as follows:

OUR MOTTO

For God and His truth, as found in Nature and taught in His Word.

OUR OBJECT

The propagation of knowledge relating to Natural Cosmogony in confirmation of the Holy Scriptures, based upon practical investigation."


Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2018, 09:08:11 PM »
Rather than asking how they might debate, why not debate them and find out?
I know exactly how they will debate. To claim to be agnostic, secular and humanist gives you the mindset of a 15 year old boy. There is an intense lack of nuance and intellectual maturity with such a philosophy. Teenage boys think the world is black or white. And are happy to identify with overarching theories and embrace them as their own with little understanding of how they translate to the real world. This is a group of people who have decided to surround themselves with people they agree with and close themselves off from those with other opinions. That is not a healthy social circle of people to meet in your first few weeks at uni.

They have deliberately chosen to identify with leftist ideologies. There is nothing Christian or conservative or centrist about them. They are not moderates. They are the mouth pieces for leftist professors who suckle from the state teat. These are the people who think Jeremy Corbyn is a good idea. They are not only dim witted ... they are dangerous in large groups. And they have created an organisation for the purpose of parroting these ridiculous ideologies in front equally impressionable, and might I add miserable individuals, who will nod along and agree with them.

Why would I want to address a crowd of people who are agnostic? Choose. What feels right? What does millions of years of conditioning make you believe? Why deny spirituality when you and everyone else has evolved to include it? Independently, no matter where on earth. Its a survival skill. Its stops nihilism. It stops suicide. It stops immorality and crime. It allows the building blocks of civilisation and cooperation. No group of people ever rose up ever to anything being atheist or agnostic. Choosing to believe in something is not a tough choice. Its outright obvious. I don't care what people believe ... it makes no odds ... animal gods, Islam, Christianity ... pick something. How can you take seriously a group of people that when asked "do you have a soul?" don't know the answer. Why would anyone want to spend a second of their lives in the company of people without souls? I have a soul. It makes me, me. It connects me to the universe and gives me an inner peace as demanded by my biology ... I am a spiritual creature ... I evolved to be like that. Anything else is a path to misery.

These people are too busy focusing on the truth. A truth they will never know anyway. And whilst they while away hours debating its pros and cons they miss the point. The point is not to believe the truth ... it is to believe whatever makes you happy. Whatever is in your best interest. Whatever improves your life. And agnosticism improves nothing. You don't take the red pill. That's no good to you. You don't get Neo super powers. You take the blue pill. Because it improves your life.

When you are sick, you have comfort.
When you are dying, you have faith.
When you are treated unjustly, you can ask for divine retribution.
When you are poor or enslaved or downtrodden, you have hope.
And when you are guilty ... you can receive forgiveness.

There is no upside to being right. And when you say you don't believe, you are powerless. Law follows religion. You say you don't believe and you want your state secular, then you get no protection. When the pay day lenders and debt companies appear ... you can't cry "usurers!". When politicians discuss removing debt forgiveness or allowing predatory gambling companies you can't shout "heresy!". When your government commits crimes that were banned for thousands of years ... you can't say shit. And all because you wanted to be 'right'. Being right, was the wrong answer. That's nuance. And you can't expect those with teenage brains to comprehend it. Discussing the shape of the earth with these people? Where would you even begin? They have far bigger problems.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 10:01:44 PM by Baby Thork »
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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2018, 09:48:29 PM »
These people are too busy focusing on the truth.

Pretty much every sentence you wrote is a claim of you being right and they are wrong. In other words, your claims are the truth.

Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2018, 09:57:06 PM »
They are my truth. And that's the difference. I don't need to be part of a group identifying lock, stock and barrel with their ideologies. I don't need approval, I don't need consensus, I don't need others to think as I do. I have my own thoughts, come to my own conclusions and always make sure that those conclusions improve my life. Otherwise, what a destructive waste of time.
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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2018, 10:03:00 PM »
...and always make sure that those conclusions improve my life.
At the expense of others who may have a differing truth than yours?

Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2018, 10:05:12 PM »
...and always make sure that those conclusions improve my life.
At the expense of others who may have a differing truth than yours?
Expense? What price do they pay that my opinions are different?
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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2018, 10:16:27 PM »
...and always make sure that those conclusions improve my life.
At the expense of others who may have a differing truth than yours?
Expense? What price do they pay that my opinions are different?

At the expense of the OP simply asking if someone from FES might be willing to debate their society and they are met with a treatise/rant as to how their entire state of being is worthless and destructive. But I suspect given the opportunity to espouse your truth was deemed worthy b/c it improved your life.

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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2018, 10:17:24 PM »
They are my truth. And that's the difference. I don't need to be part of a group identifying lock, stock and barrel with their ideologies.
They aren't asking you to join their group or accept their ideologies.  They just want to debate an FE'er about the shape of the earth.  If you don't want to debate them, then don't.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2018, 10:32:45 PM »
At the expense of the OP simply asking if someone from FES might be willing to debate their society and they are met with a treatise/rant as to how their entire state of being is worthless and destructive. But I suspect given the opportunity to espouse your truth was deemed worthy b/c it improved your life.

???

You asked me ...
Rather than asking how they might debate, why not debate them and find out?
I then told you why I didn't fancy it. ie they really aren't my kind of people. Now you are saying I just wanted to espouse my truth? I gave you a comprehensive answer why their ideology is so far from mine, and why I don't care that they don't think what I think enough to do anything about that ... and you are still complaining.

If you don't want to debate them, then don't.
I won't. I wouldn't enjoy it. Reasons why stated above.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2018, 10:35:13 PM »
I'm from the University of Nottingham Agnostic, Secularist and Humanist Society, in England. Our position is that the Earth is spherical. What we'd like to do is invite some Flat Earthers in to debate us in front of an audience. Therefore, I'm wondering if anyone on here would be able to advise me on finding people from your community to come and debate us?
Thanks!

There is enough material out there to debate among yourselves.

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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2018, 10:48:59 PM »
At the expense of the OP simply asking if someone from FES might be willing to debate their society and they are met with a treatise/rant as to how their entire state of being is worthless and destructive. But I suspect given the opportunity to espouse your truth was deemed worthy b/c it improved your life.

???

You asked me ...
Rather than asking how they might debate, why not debate them and find out?
I then told you why I didn't fancy it. ie they really aren't my kind of people. Now you are saying I just wanted to espouse my truth? I gave you a comprehensive answer why their ideology is so far from mine, and why I don't care that they don't think what I think enough to do anything about that ... and you are still complaining.

If you don't want to debate them, then don't.
I won't. I wouldn't enjoy it. Reasons why stated above.

Then why your original post? Why the necessity to berate? If you had no interest in their question b/c of where it was coming from, why engage at all? It's not like the question was addressed to you specifically.

Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2018, 11:06:50 PM »
Then why your original post? Why the necessity to berate? If you had no interest in their question b/c of where it was coming from, why engage at all? It's not like the question was addressed to you specifically.
The post had been unanswered for several hours. As one of two people here likely to do this

a) flat earther
b) lives in England
c) has done flat earth talks and uni work before

I have given my reasons as to why I'm not interested. I'm really not interested in these weird leftist groups. I might have gone to talk about earth's shape with the Fortnite and Marujana club. That means there is only one other person who might do this. So now the OP knows where he/she stands (it's a he, we all know it is a he ... it might not identify as a he, but it's a he) ... and short of the other person volunteering, they should probably start looking for an alternative format (like Tom's suggestion) or topic.
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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2018, 11:39:04 PM »
Then why your original post? Why the necessity to berate? If you had no interest in their question b/c of where it was coming from, why engage at all? It's not like the question was addressed to you specifically.
The post had been unanswered for several hours. As one of two people here likely to do this

a) flat earther
b) lives in England
c) has done flat earth talks and uni work before

I have given my reasons as to why I'm not interested. I'm really not interested in these weird leftist groups. I might have gone to talk about earth's shape with the Fortnite and Marujana club. That means there is only one other person who might do this. So now the OP knows where he/she stands (it's a he, we all know it is a he ... it might not identify as a he, but it's a he) ... and short of the other person volunteering, they should probably start looking for an alternative format (like Tom's suggestion) or topic.

I see, so your original post was more of a courtesy; a 'decline' RSVP with a full explanation as to why.

Mysfit

Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2018, 07:35:14 PM »
Now that the OP's ideologies have been torn down and they have been directed to the wiki/rest of the fora to find information.
Is someone, who holds firm belief in a model of flat earth, willing to attend their debate?
I am disqualified.

Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2018, 01:03:40 AM »
Now that the OP's ideologies have been torn down and they have been directed to the wiki/rest of the fora to find information.
Is someone, who holds firm belief in a model of flat earth, willing to attend their debate?
I am disqualified.
The OP went back to their safe space a long time ago.

You see, the OP wasn't interested in a debate. What he wanted to do, was parade a defenceless fool in front of a crowd of his baying mates. Much back slapping and ego stroking would have ensued as they justified their degree level education by outwitting a halfwit over the shape of the earth. Imagine the tethered goat in Jurassic park. The OP would ring the dinner bell. The goat isn't supposed to run or fight back. The poor sap who volunteered would be talked at, not listened to. This is about a group of people who want their opinions heard ... and they don't want to waste that precious talking time listening to someone else.
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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2018, 07:08:10 AM »
You see, the OP wasn't interested in a debate. What he wanted to do, was parade a defenceless fool in front of a crowd of his baying mates. Much back slapping and ego stroking would have ensued as they justified their degree level education by outwitting a halfwit over the shape of the earth. Imagine the tethered goat in Jurassic park. The OP would ring the dinner bell. The goat isn't supposed to run or fight back. The poor sap who volunteered would be talked at, not listened to. This is about a group of people who want their opinions heard ... and they don't want to waste that precious talking time listening to someone else.

Something tells me that if you were the goat lowered into their pen, when all was said and done, there would be half a dozen gen z former humanists quivering in the corner questioning the fundamentals of their existence. Perhaps best that you passed, for their sake.  ;)

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Re: Finding Flat Earthers to debate
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2018, 10:48:56 AM »
This thread seems to have veered way off track. Please refrain from responding unless you intend to accept Jake's invitation.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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