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Offline timterroo

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Moon phases
« on: September 17, 2018, 02:33:34 AM »
Quote
Lunar Orientation

Q: Why does the orientation of the moon look the same to everyone one earth regardless of where they are?

A: It doesn't. The orientation varies depending on your location on earth. In FET this is explained by the different observers standing on either side of the moon. On one side it is right-side up, and on the other side it is upside down.

Imagine a green arrow suspended horizontally above your head pointing to the North. Standing 50 feet to the South of the arrow it is pointing "downwards" towards the Northern horizon. Standing 50 feet to the North of the arrow, looking back at it, it points "upwards" above your head to the North. The arrow flip-flops, pointing down or away from the horizon depending on which side you stand.

The lunar orientation varies depending on where you stand on a Round Earth as well. Here is the RET explanation for why the moon turns upside down when you stand on either side of it: http://web.archive.org/web/20070218184023/http://www.seed.slb.com/qa2/FAQView.cfm?ID=1137

This is a quote from the wiki about how we experience moon phases.
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Phases_of_the_Moon

First off, I think there should be a way to empirically test this theory by having two people stand several thousands miles apart, on the north and south sides of the earth and observe a crescent moon. According to FET, if you observe the moon from the north, it will be flipped in the south and vice versa. Please read the wiki for an explanation.

FET backs up this claim by suggesting that you would notice a similar effect in RET. I propose this to be false. I do not believe there would be enough difference on a RE for the human eye to notice the angular change from standing on one side or the other.

In fact, (in theory) if you have someone standing exactly on the North pole, and someone else standing exactly on the south pole, the angular difference in their perspective of the moon would be the diameter of the earth (7,917.5 miles), and this angle works out to be about 1.9 degrees difference when the moon is 238,900 miles away. If the two people are standing closer together (which is more realistic), the angle gets even smaller.

Would the human eye actually notice this difference?

If the earth is flat, and two people stand the same distance apart as in RE (7,917.5 miles), and you assume the sun to be 3000 miles high, the angular difference between the observers becomes 105.68 degrees.

Would the human eye notice this difference? You'd have to be blind to not notice. That's enough of a difference that each observer would be looking at different sides of the moon. Which is why the wiki explanation says the crescent moon should flip when being on one side compared to the other.

This should be a testable, and verifiable theory. Does the reflection of the sun off the moon flip when standing on one side or the other?
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Re: Moon phases
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 05:04:48 AM »
Tim, the phenomena being referred to is a well known one where the moon 'tilts' with respect to the horizon in each hemisphere. It's well documented. Your quote even includes the RE explanation in a link at the bottom.

Re: Moon phases
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 07:15:44 AM »
The phase of the Moon is something different to any angular change in the amount of Moon surface the two different observers can or will see.

The phase, to the two observers, will be unchanged, albeit inverted between each of them. The observer on the North pole will see a fraction more of the 'northern' area of the Moon, the Southern observer will see slightly more of the 'southern' area of the Moon

If it's a half moon at the time, both will see a half moon.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Moon phases
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 01:53:11 AM »
You are both missing the point. I think I incorrectly named the thread.

It should have been named something like "does the moon appear different or flipped in the north vs the south?" Not sure how I would name it...

What I am saying is, in RE there should be very little difference, so little that I doubt you could even tell unless perhaps you are in the extreme situation. In FE there should be a very noticeable difference.

This is something that we should be able to test and verify. What does the moon look like for each observer if they are 7k miles apart and looking at it at the same time?

Edit:

And by "difference", I mean the difference in the viewable surface of the moon. I believe the "phase" should remain the same for each observer, but one would see more of one side, and the other would see more of the other side. I understand it will be flipped relative to the observer in either case (I have come to this conclusion after thinking about this for bit... as it sets to one observer, it would be rising to the other in either FE or RE).
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:42:33 PM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein