*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5472
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
PhD Confirms Flat Earth
« on: September 16, 2018, 04:52:34 AM »
We have seen what is shown in this video many times, and don't need any authoratative approval. However, for those who do, a PhD performed water convexity experiments, sees zero curvature, discusses refraction, and comes to the conclusion that reality best supports the Flat Earth.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 05:58:28 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline MegaMan2005

  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Hello, Iā€™m am a Flat Earther.
    • View Profile
Re: PhD Confirms Flat Earth
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 11:46:05 AM »
We have seen what is shown in this video many times, and don't need any authoratative approval. However, for those who do, a PhD performed water convexity experiments, sees zero curvature, discusses refraction, and comes to the conclusion that reality best supports the Flat Earth.


I very much think of the FE theory is true, and this just shows that Flat Earthers are right.
100110010011001110110011100110011010010010101010101010101010111110011100101010010001001010101111001101001011100101001100100101011110100100100100100010010100101010010010101110100101011110011010101011101001010010001010110101010101011111010010100100100100011111100101001011001010010101100101110001001010010010101001010010101010010101010101001110100100101001010101010010111110010101001010010101010010101111100000100100101001010110000111010100010001010101

HorstFue

Re: PhD Confirms Flat Earth
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 08:05:12 PM »
Looks like such errors also happen to approved scientists. I assume, he was so occupied by his calculations, that this little detail escaped his attention:
This was a low water at June/3rd/2018 21:00h at Brighton. Sea level during Low water should be below "mean sea level", not above, or?
So water height of 1.34m above mean sea level could not be the right value.

The issue is: Maps on land are referenced to "mean sea level". Sea charts - when affected by significant tides - are referenced to LAT, "lowest astronomical tide".
This was introduced, to always give a positive low water height in the tide tables. The actual water height is given by the chart depth plus the current height from the tide tables (1.34m).
What you can easily calculate from the tide tables, is an approximate value for "mean sea level": Build the average of an adjacent high water and a low water.
This way I get about 3.75m difference, between the "land" and the "sea" charts. Which puts all the traffic lights about 3.75m higher than he calculated.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5472
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: PhD Confirms Flat Earth
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 12:18:52 AM »
Looks like such errors also happen to approved scientists. I assume, he was so occupied by his calculations, that this little detail escaped his attention:
This was a low water at June/3rd/2018 21:00h at Brighton. Sea level during Low water should be below "mean sea level", not above, or?
So water height of 1.34m above mean sea level could not be the right value.

The issue is: Maps on land are referenced to "mean sea level". Sea charts - when affected by significant tides - are referenced to LAT, "lowest astronomical tide".
This was introduced, to always give a positive low water height in the tide tables. The actual water height is given by the chart depth plus the current height from the tide tables (1.34m).
What you can easily calculate from the tide tables, is an approximate value for "mean sea level": Build the average of an adjacent high water and a low water.
This way I get about 3.75m difference, between the "land" and the "sea" charts. Which puts all the traffic lights about 3.75m higher than he calculated.

The author is correct that it is 1.34m above sea level.

From the video:



Direct link to the tides on that day: https://www.tidetimes.org.uk/worthing-tide-times-20180603

FAQ from that website:

Quote
What are the numbers in brackets after each tide time?

These are the water heights for each tide. For example "(5.3m)" would mean 5.3m over Chart Datum. Chart Datum is the lowest anticipated water level for the whole of the UK, and so does not necessarily mean a 5.3m change in water height in this example. For an in-depth explanation of "Chart Datum", click here.

https://www.tidetimes.org.uk/chartdatum

Quote
Chart Datum is the plane to which all tidal heights are referred. It is also the plane below which all depths are published on a navigational chart, so that adding the tidal height to the charted depth the true depth of water is determined. By international agreement it is defined as being a level so low that the tide will not frequently fall below it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_datum

Quote
A chart datum is the level of water that charted depths displayed on a nautical chart are measured from. A chart datum is generally a tidal datum; that is, a datum derived from some phase of the tide.[1] Common chart datums are lowest astronomical tide[1] and mean lower low water. In non-tidal areas, e.g., the Baltic sea, Mean Sea Level[2] (MSL) is used.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level

Quote
Mean sea level (MSL) (often shortened to sea level) is an average level of the surface of one or more of Earth's oceans from which heights such as elevation may be measured. MSL is a type of vertical datum ā€“ a standardised geodetic reference system ā€“ that is used, for example, as a chart datum in cartography and marine navigation, or, in aviation, as the standard sea level at which atmospheric pressure is measured to calibrate altitude and, consequently, aircraft flight levels.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 12:20:56 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 533
    • View Profile
Re: PhD Confirms Flat Earth
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 01:51:02 AM »

Re: PhD Confirms Flat Earth
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2018, 04:15:33 AM »
Looks like such errors also happen to approved scientists. I assume, he was so occupied by his calculations, that this little detail escaped his attention:
This was a low water at June/3rd/2018 21:00h at Brighton. Sea level during Low water should be below "mean sea level", not above, or?
So water height of 1.34m above mean sea level could not be the right value.

The issue is: Maps on land are referenced to "mean sea level". Sea charts - when affected by significant tides - are referenced to LAT, "lowest astronomical tide".
This was introduced, to always give a positive low water height in the tide tables. The actual water height is given by the chart depth plus the current height from the tide tables (1.34m).
What you can easily calculate from the tide tables, is an approximate value for "mean sea level": Build the average of an adjacent high water and a low water.
This way I get about 3.75m difference, between the "land" and the "sea" charts. Which puts all the traffic lights about 3.75m higher than he calculated.
FAQ from that website:

Quote
What are the numbers in brackets after each tide time?

These are the water heights for each tide. For example "(5.3m)" would mean 5.3m over Chart Datum. Chart Datum is the lowest anticipated water level for the whole of the UK, and so does not necessarily mean a 5.3m change in water height in this example. For an in-depth explanation of "Chart Datum", click here.

https://www.tidetimes.org.uk/chartdatum

Quote
Chart Datum is the plane to which all tidal heights are referred. It is also the plane below which all depths are published on a navigational chart, so that adding the tidal height to the charted depth the true depth of water is determined. By international agreement it is defined as being a level so low that the tide will not frequently fall below it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chart_datum

Quote
A chart datum is the level of water that charted depths displayed on a nautical chart are measured from. A chart datum is generally a tidal datum; that is, a datum derived from some phase of the tide.[1] Common chart datums are lowest astronomical tide[1] and mean lower low water. In non-tidal areas, e.g., the Baltic sea, Mean Sea Level[2] (MSL) is used.
I continue to wonder if you just are terrible at reading comprehension, or specifically look for ways to make your statement appear correct upon a cursory glance. I've bolded the correct statements that apply to these heights. The heights are in reference to what is commonly called Lowest Astronomical Tide (LAT) NOT in reference to 'mean sea level' as you are attempting to claim.

Per the site on Chart Datum:

Quote
Chart Datum is the plane to which all tidal heights are referred. It is also the plane below which all depths are published on a navigational chart, so that adding the tidal height to the charted depth the true depth of water is determined. By international agreement it is defined as being a level so low that the tide will not frequently fall below it.

In the United Kingdom, this level is normally approximately the level of Lowest Astronomical Tide (LAT). LAT is the lowest level which can be expected to be predicted under average meteorological conditions and under any combination of astronomical conditions ; this level will not be reached every year. LAT is not an extreme level, as storm surges may cause considerably lower levels to occur.

The specific phrase "Predicted heights are in metres above chart datum" means that the tidal heights are predicted i.e. computed values and they are in metres above Chart Datum which is the zero point or reference plane from which the tidal heights are measured as defined above.

I have no idea what effect this truly has on the video, just pointing out that at the very least Tom is presenting the information as being incorrect. If you're placing something like you did in the image above that is NOT part of the original site, you need to make that clear. Especially if they're just wrong. Again, I don't know whether you're deliberately attempting to misrepresent this information, or you honestly didn't notice, but it's a pattern with you Tom.

HorstFue

Re: PhD Confirms Flat Earth
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2018, 09:14:49 PM »
11 meters checks out, I checked it via: https://www.daftlogic.com/sandbox-google-maps-find-altitude.htm#
There's no issue with the hight above mean sea level of King's Road, Brighton.

To make it clear again: This PhD did not take into account the different reference systems for "land charts", which is "mean sea level" and for "sea charts", including tide tables, which is LAT - "lowest astronomical tide".
Just to explain it a bit different: The hight of the traffic lights above mean sea level is ok. But observers hight or actual water level hight is wrong. The tide tables do not give the hight above mean sea level but above LAT, which is about 3.75m below mean sea level!
(you could calculate an approximate value from msl from the average of one high water and the following low water from the tide tables)
PhD puts observers hight at 1.34m above mean sea level. All yachtsmen at Brighton Marina and any uneducated fisherman would shake their heads for disregard, if you declare actual water level hight during a Low Water is above mean sea level.

So actual water level hight and so observers hight is not 1.34m above mean sea level, it is below mean sea level, about -2.4m! (1.34m-3.75m)
Which in total changes hight of the traffic lights above the observer to about 16m (the value calculated by PhD + 3.75m) - Which is the predicted value from Globe Earth curvature calculator.