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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2018, 02:00:39 AM »
While we should initially "seed" the platform with links to good content, the purpose of such a platform should be geared for anyone to submit videos or articles, just like this forum is open for anyone to post. Submitted videos, podcasts, or other contents get upvoted based on a "thumbs up" rating system. When we go to the site we see the top rated and newest videos, with a more categorized list of channels or topics on the menu. Eventually and ideally, those video authors should be the ones posting their own videos, not us.

If there is someone advocating violence, there is a "report to moderator" button near the video. What is the difference between someone advocating for violence on the forum or in a video? Nothing. It is just a different content format.

Who cares if some of the content is of poor quality? That's what disclaimers are for. Some of these content creators are new to FET, will get some things wrong, but they tend to get better over time. It's not like we are censoring people here on the forum when they may be occasionally incorrect about something.

While the quality may be questionable at times, these content creators have proven that they can suck in the audience. What we want is for our audience to get interested enough in the subject to go on a 6 hour Flat Earth video-watching bender. The bounce rate is probably quite high with our current website format, and we know from the giant YouTube Flat Earth reprisal that the video format is a proven way to suck them in.

As I imagine this, it would look something like the following:

Main Page - automatically display a selection of trending, top, and newly submitted content.

In the side menu we have the following sections:

Flat Earth 101/Top Videos - basically a section with top videos designed to suck the audience in. New users generally start here
Channels - A listing of the Flat Earth channels -- If the users want to view a listing of videos from a user or group they can navigate to their page to see their videos or contents.
Categories - Basically a list of topics that redirects to a search link. "Sinking Ship," "Perspective," etc. For users to research a particular topic.
Search - Allows the user to search freely
Submit Content - Allows the user to submit content

In the top menu we have the other main website links.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 04:30:18 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2018, 06:43:19 AM »
You've written elsewhere on the importance of empiricism, but now you're happy to send folk on an eight-hour YouTube binge? Not much empiricism there ...
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Pete Svarrior "We are not here to directly persuade anyone ... You mistake our lack of interest in you for our absence."

Tom Bishop "We are extremely popular and the entire world wants to talk to us. We have better things to do with our lives than have in depth discussions with every single curious person. You are lucky to get one sentence dismissals from us"

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2018, 11:56:10 AM »
You've written elsewhere on the importance of empiricism, but now you're happy to send folk on an eight-hour YouTube binge? Not much empiricism there ...

That doesn’t make much sense. What does YouTube have to do with empiricism? Can’t someone do their own experiments and watch YouTube?
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline Bobby Shafto

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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2018, 03:55:44 PM »
I've noticed this too, but I can't tell if that's an action taken by the video author or just a YouTube filter that may bias toward those who contribute more comments.

Look for the comment without logging in. If, after that, you still only see it with your own login, it or you has been suppressed by the video author.
I know this is a tangent to the topic, but I wanted to add that the author of one of those videos I commented on, and for which my comment seemed to disappear when I would log out, has responded; which would be very odd if he were trying to suppress my comment.

I think YouTube displays comments according to some formula over which the video author has no control. While it may be true that video authors can suppress comments, I believe seeing your comment seem to disappear does not automatically indict the video author.

Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2018, 04:30:44 PM »
The thing everyone has to remember. You can't censor the internet.

But, websites (the vast majority) are privately owned and can impose whatever limitations they want. Same as a content creator can.

While I dont normally agree with blocking comments, the internet has become full of trolls and vicious hate speech. If people could be polite and use constructive criticism things would go more smoothly.

Now, on the subject of YouTube specifically. I wish they would pull 80% of the fe/re debated because its muddied with inconsistencies, false statements, lies, bad science, and poor attitudes.

There are few people in the video debates the can give clear and concise information without resorting to name calling and insults. And not just flatearthers. Round earthers are just as guilty.

People also do not want to use proper math or scientific methods. They do an experiment and claim it as proof without any idea if its repeatable or consistent.

If youtube was more like this forum things would be better.

Sometimes I think the FE and RE on youtube are just agreeing like idiots so they can make money. Simple as that.

You guys keep doing what you do and dont worry about the idiots on youtube
Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it’s a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Perception is a guess or estimate of what is 'out there' depending on how we read the clues; therefore it can never be absolute and often is unreliable.

Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2018, 10:04:26 PM »
My objection to this proposal is because we have had this discussion before regarding a video library.

And I suggested we collect the best videos ... ie ones that we like and ones that fit with our view of FET. But Tom was against this.

If I understand this right, this forum is only for the model you like ?
If people like me, who are convinced earth is flat, since there is no curvature, but also believes something that differ from your model, can not post anything that differ from your model ?

Where is the dynamic ? It becomes very static if the model can not be challenged .
What if Newton and his apple was not challenged, then the theory of gravity would be a God, you can not question.


We are changing with our experiments, like me trying to reconstruct rainbows indoor, and taking pics under the surface of a pool in a glass bowl to find out why the stars seems to have water ripples with a Nikon 900.
When you test moonlight temperature, you know the heliocentric system is nil and void as it stands.
Our reality are not carved in stone, we are who we are because we think, and challenge and test our beliefs. 
Does other peoples tests becomes nil and void because it does not fit our narrative ?

Personally I have never tested the lack of curve from England to Ireland, but since I have tested it between Spain and Africa, I assume water is just as flat there as were I tested it.
There seems to be a general agreement that there is no curve, and it fits with every flat earth model.


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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2018, 10:18:18 PM »
My objection to this proposal is because we have had this discussion before regarding a video library.

And I suggested we collect the best videos ... ie ones that we like and ones that fit with our view of FET. But Tom was against this.

If I understand this right, this forum is only for the model you like ?
If people like me, who are convinced earth is flat, since there is no curvature, but also believes something that differ from your model, can not post anything that differ from your model ?
Your views on earth's shape are perfectly fine. I don't care what you think even if you think the earth is round. And I don't care what flat earth models are examined. There are many I don't like such as the bipolar model, there are some I think are ridiculous like the infinite plane model. But I don't care if videos on either appear in our library. The problem with youtubers is that they aren't all about the flat. Some also subscribe to other conspiracy theories such as lizard people, alien overlords, holocaust denial, Islamic fundamentalism, paedophilia ... you dig about and you'll find flat earth videos that go off on a tangent. Some are pro-Israel, some anti-semetic, some pro-gay, some anti-gay, some pro-Trump etc etc etc. And if we host videos with those views in a our library, we will be asked why? And its a fair question. We are about earth's shape ... and that's the message. But youtubers have a nasty habit of making all their views available in the same videos and we don't share all those views. Which is why I don't think we can just scrape a library together. It needs to be carefully chosen, to make sure its about earth's shape and that's it.

Tom wants to make the site a protector of their views. A place where they are all kept together in one place. But some of their views are batshit, some are wicked and some are dangerous. Its not what they think about earth's shape. Its what they thnk about everything else I worry about. Flat earthers on youtube tend to be a little unhinged. A high risk group, if you like.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2018, 02:46:16 PM »
If I understand this right, this forum is only for the model you like ?
To reinforce Thork's point: we absolutely welcome models different from our own. I'd be very keen to document other prominent models, and as such would invite anyone who subscribes to them to contribute. The issue, indeed, is that some proponents can go from talking about Flat Earth to advocating genocide in a very short time. We'd need some way to screen for that.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we've already addressed it.
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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #28 on: September 30, 2018, 10:30:20 PM »
So, what is needed are videos which treat flat earth as a scientific exercise without leading to conspiracy theories.
I’m scared to watch Baby Thork’s videos as they may be more of the latter.
This forum already practices censorship in the form of rules, maybe the videos should follow rules too?

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Offline OBAMA IS A LIZARD

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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2018, 03:00:41 AM »
They do this to every video that isn't kid friendly not really something new.
OBAME EETS YER BABIES

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2018, 03:27:42 AM »
The videos should follow the rules just like any content posted on the forum.

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: YouTube now censoring and demoting Flat Earth videos
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2018, 10:39:12 AM »
Welp, nothing is going to happen until we have an agreement and we actually do something.

Everyone is in agreement that we could host the best flat earth youtube videos.
Some people aren't happy about scraping and want to see a curated selection.

So the solution is to build a curated library and continue the discussion on scraping until a consensus is reached either way.

I made a thread where we can add videos we've seen that are appropriate.
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=9908.0

Might I suggest we go back to adding to that, talk to the admins about adding us a library and then have a separate thread to move the videos that are approved to, ready for upload.

Then we are on the journey to making something happen.
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