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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #100 on: October 25, 2018, 06:16:21 PM »
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

I think if we could just accept people like you suggest, then this thread wouldn't need to exist. Excellent point, Baby Thork.
Whoa, I never said anything about accepting people. Invasive sub-species need to be eliminated in order that you aren't out-completed for resources. My local council just removed about 100 acres of non-native trees so that they can plant indigenous ones. Now if they can see the dangers of invasive species in plants ... what the hell is going on with our immigration policy?
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Offline timterroo

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #101 on: October 25, 2018, 09:00:44 PM »
If someone's race can change depending where they live, how is it solely based on biology when biology does not change?

The name for their biology can change, their biology cannot. You can't swap from white to black just by moving to another country. You can't become another race merely by traveling.



Race classifications are inherently determined by biological characteristics, this is indeed true, and I am not disputing this. The assignments of those classifications can and do change, however. The assignments of race that we give people is determined by society, which is why a person can be considered "white" in one geographical region, and "black" in another region. It is not the physical characteristics that are changing, but rather societies determination of what we call someone with certain biological characteristics that can change. In this regard, a person's race is determined by a multitude of factors, not just biology.

Therefore, a person's race can change, and it is more than just biology.

Thork and Junker are right, if we just accept the "human race", we wouldn't be having this discussion, and racism would quite likely be non-existent as we could consider everyone equally human. It would be silly to say that one human race is greater than another human race.
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"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline Rushy

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #102 on: October 25, 2018, 09:30:56 PM »
Race classifications are inherently determined by biological characteristics, this is indeed true, and I am not disputing this. The assignments of those classifications can and do change, however. The assignments of race that we give people is determined by society, which is why a person can be considered "white" in one geographical region, and "black" in another region. It is not the physical characteristics that are changing, but rather societies determination of what we call someone with certain biological characteristics that can change. In this regard, a person's race is determined by a multitude of factors, not just biology.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. A race is a race regardless of the different things different cultures call it. You've basically admitted that race is only biology, just that the names between cultures differ. This is an important step in your learning.

Therefore, a person's race can change, and it is more than just biology.

Incorrect. It's just biology, which you just admitted, funny enough.

Thork and Junker are right, if we just accept the "human race", we wouldn't be having this discussion, and racism would quite likely be non-existent as we could consider everyone equally human. It would be silly to say that one human race is greater than another human race.

Once again your impressive lack of literacy presents its ugly head. I suggest reading things before actually commenting on them in the future. Thork quite literally said the opposite of what you just said:

Whoa, I never said anything about accepting people. Invasive sub-species need to be eliminated in order that you aren't out-completed for resources.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #103 on: October 25, 2018, 10:24:10 PM »
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

I think if we could just accept people like you suggest, then this thread wouldn't need to exist. Excellent point, Baby Thork.
Whoa, I never said anything about accepting people. Invasive sub-species need to be eliminated in order that you aren't out-completed for resources. My local council just removed about 100 acres of non-native trees so that they can plant indigenous ones. Now if they can see the dangers of invasive species in plants ... what the hell is going on with our immigration policy?

Accept, you did.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #104 on: October 25, 2018, 11:00:16 PM »
No. I said races are a label that don't appear in zoological classification. The correct term would be sub-species.

We are all human (species). I am Caucasian, one of the sub-species of humanity.

At no point did I say we should just accept all people are the same. They are not. Its possible for two tigers to have a white tiger offspring. It is not possible for two black people to have a Caucasian baby. Being black isn't a recessive gene and nor is being Asian or white. They are unique traits belonging to that sub-species.
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Offline timterroo

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #105 on: October 26, 2018, 02:32:03 AM »
Rushy, there is a key difference between saying biology is a factor, and saying biology is "the only" factor. I did not say biology was the only factor as I have repetedly said in previous post - here's another example of you straw manning and attempting to get me to debate what I never claimed. Congrats, you succeeded. And here we are again of topic, thanks.

Thork, you said "accept people" in a previous post. Meaning don't reject them, that is what I based my assumption on when I said I agreed and you were right.

Perhaps you meant "except people"?

Either way, I stand by my regards.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 02:36:09 AM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #106 on: October 26, 2018, 09:53:31 AM »
Now, an African male and European female meet and have a baby. What "race" is this baby? Are they caucasoid? Negroid?

Half caucasoid and half negroid, mixed race.
Are you playing dumb on purpose?

Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #107 on: October 26, 2018, 09:58:35 AM »
Rushy, there is a key difference between saying biology is a factor, and saying biology is "the only" factor. I did not say biology was the only factor as I have repetedly said in previous post - here's another example of you straw manning and attempting to get me to debate what I never claimed. Congrats, you succeeded. And here we are again of topic, thanks.

Sorry double post. To me this feels like the difference between sex and gender. One (i can't remember which) refers to biology and the other to what people "feel" they are.

You are trying to do a similar thing with race, race is purely biological, culture is mainly environmental, you could have a quarter cast Aboriginal that identifies as European and acts as a European. However he is still one quarter Aboriginal because of his biology.

Accept, you did.
That was an absolutely delightful pun, credit where it is due.

Edit.
You can acknowledge that races are different without putting a supremacist spin onto it. What bothers me is when people claim the sky is red because they feel it's less offensive than telling the truth. (It's blue).
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 10:07:54 AM by disputeone »

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #108 on: October 26, 2018, 10:53:41 AM »
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

I think if we could just accept people like you suggest, then this thread wouldn't need to exist. Excellent point, Baby Thork.
Whoa, I never said anything about accepting people. Invasive sub-species need to be eliminated in order that you aren't out-completed for resources. My local council just removed about 100 acres of non-native trees so that they can plant indigenous ones. Now if they can see the dangers of invasive species in plants ... what the hell is going on with our immigration policy?

Accept, you did.
Ahh, I see. Well played.
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Offline timterroo

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #109 on: October 26, 2018, 05:50:28 PM »
Now, an African male and European female meet and have a baby. What "race" is this baby? Are they caucasoid? Negroid?

Half caucasoid and half negroid, mixed race.
Are you playing dumb on purpose?

No need for insults here, we're all adults, aren't we?

In this sense, we are all "mixed" any more... Unless maybe if you belong to the royal family... They might be all inbred.

That makes it awefully hard to identify race doesn't it? So then race classification becomes quite arbitrary and subject to bias. Some will say you are x race based on y percentage of genes. Others will say, oh no, their skin is too white to be negroid.

I believe if you go back in history far enough, you will find that we are all decendence from Africa. Does this make us all negroid? If it's strictly about biology then I'd say our racial categories are pretty far off from our origins.

P.s. - I'm assuming that people who read this will understand that if we all descended from Africa our biology would have been very similar, and there was less biological differences back then.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 05:53:32 PM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline Baby Thork

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #110 on: October 26, 2018, 06:02:20 PM »
You could also argue that we all descended from apes. Or that we all descended from sea creatures. But I like to think I am a little different to a sea slug. We are not all the same. No hard data claims that we are.
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Offline timterroo

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #111 on: October 26, 2018, 06:28:53 PM »
You could also argue that we all descended from apes. Or that we all descended from sea creatures. But I like to think I am a little different to a sea slug. We are not all the same. No hard data claims that we are.

Correct. This further illustrates the ambiguity of racial classifications, and close examination of history will lead to the conslusion that our racial categories as we know them are based upon social discrimination as we have tried to define our biology through ethnocentric eyes. Hence, race is more about society and culture than it is about biology.

Furthermore, studies have shown there are actually more biological differences within a given "race" than there are between "races".
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 06:53:20 PM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."  - Albert Einstein

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Offline junker

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #112 on: October 26, 2018, 08:13:53 PM »
Accept, you did.
That was an absolutely delightful pun, credit where it is due.

Ahh, I see. Well played.

>mfw these jerks don't even give proper credit for the original pun...

I think if we could just accept people like you suggest, then this thread wouldn't need to exist. Excellent point, Baby Thork.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #113 on: October 26, 2018, 08:33:33 PM »
To be fair Junker, I made a pun, you subtly pointed out his malapropism. So I’m the true North Eastern White Overlord.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline junker

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #114 on: October 26, 2018, 08:39:42 PM »
To be fair Junker, I made a pun, you subtly pointed out his malapropism. So I’m the true North Eastern White Overlord.

To be more fair, it is more a homophone than a malapropism.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #115 on: October 26, 2018, 09:14:50 PM »
To be fair Junker, I made a pun, you subtly pointed out his malapropism. So I’m the true North Eastern White Overlord.

To be more fair, it is more a homophone than a malapropism.

Incorrect. Homophone’s are pronounced the same. Only cementing my status as Das Uberman.
You don't get races of anything ... accept people.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #116 on: October 26, 2018, 09:20:25 PM »
Rushy, there is a key difference between saying biology is a factor, and saying biology is "the only" factor. I did not say biology was the only factor as I have repetedly said in previous post - here's another example of you straw manning and attempting to get me to debate what I never claimed. Congrats, you succeeded. And here we are again of topic, thanks.

Thork, you said "accept people" in a previous post. Meaning don't reject them, that is what I based my assumption on when I said I agreed and you were right.

Perhaps you meant "except people"?

Either way, I stand by my regards.

By definition, the only factor in race is biological, that's what makes it a race. If whatever you're describing isn't biological in nature, it's an ethnicity. This is why you confused "African American" with a race in your previous posts, because you still haven't figured out the difference between ethnicity and race. Any race can sit inside an ethnicity and sometimes the two correlate, but they're not the same thing.

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Offline junker

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #117 on: October 26, 2018, 11:45:42 PM »
To be fair Junker, I made a pun, you subtly pointed out his malapropism. So I’m the true North Eastern White Overlord.

To be more fair, it is more a homophone than a malapropism.

Incorrect. Homophone’s are pronounced the same. Only cementing my status as Das Uberman.

Must be a Canuck difference since most people in Americaland pronounce them the same. But also it is missing the spirit of a malapropism. Maybe Pardisfla can check in and make a decision; he is a cunning linguist and master debater. Let us enjoy the debate, bone apple tea.

Edit- also homophone’s lmao possessive what a ifiot

Edit 2 - also, drink
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:49:56 PM by junker »

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Offline timterroo

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #118 on: October 26, 2018, 11:54:13 PM »
Rushy, there is a key difference between saying biology is a factor, and saying biology is "the only" factor. I did not say biology was the only factor as I have repetedly said in previous post - here's another example of you straw manning and attempting to get me to debate what I never claimed. Congrats, you succeeded. And here we are again of topic, thanks.

Thork, you said "accept people" in a previous post. Meaning don't reject them, that is what I based my assumption on when I said I agreed and you were right.

Perhaps you meant "except people"?

Either way, I stand by my regards.

By definition, the only factor in race is biological, that's what makes it a race. If whatever you're describing isn't biological in nature, it's an ethnicity. This is why you confused "African American" with a race in your previous posts, because you still haven't figured out the difference between ethnicity and race. Any race can sit inside an ethnicity and sometimes the two correlate, but they're not the same thing.

Okay, maybe we can meet half-way... Is it fair to say that our assignments of race are based on society and culture, while the racial terms themselves are an attempt to segregate our biology?
"noche te ipsum"

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Offline Rushy

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Re: The US Northeast is Too White
« Reply #119 on: October 27, 2018, 01:43:20 AM »
Okay, maybe we can meet half-way... Is it fair to say that our assignments of race are based on society and culture, while the racial terms themselves are an attempt to segregate our biology?

Yes, that sounds correct.