[JustCurious]

Ok, first off I don't believe the earth is flat. But as with every conspiracy theory that catches my curiosity, my big question is, what is the motive behind the conspiracy? In this case, I want to know, what is the motivation behind lying about the shape of the earth? What does the government and NASA have to gain from telling everyone the earth is round?

[JRowe]

I want to know, what is the motivation behind lying about the shape of the earth? What does the government and NASA have to gain from telling everyone the earth is round?

They don't. Next.
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy#Motive_of_the_Conspiracy
https://fet.wikia.com/wiki/Conspiracy

[pj1]

Ok, first off I don't believe the earth is flat. But as with every conspiracy theory that catches my curiosity, my big question is, what is the motive behind the conspiracy? In this case, I want to know, what is the motivation behind lying about the shape of the earth? What does the government and NASA have to gain from telling everyone the earth is round?

Hey JustCurious.  You'll see the explanation of the conspiracy in Jrowe's links. I'm not convinced either :-)

What I find interesting is the way the conspiracy is evolving over time. What started as a conspiracy involving NASA during the space race now involves SpaceX, Virgin Intergalactic etc.  Some theorists will tell you that these companies are colluding on the lie, or are independently lying to each other and us.  I find it difficult to believe that they all know or have discovered space travel isn't possible, but they're carrying on just to save face.

Regardless of what you believe, it's essentially all just conjecture.

[angry monk]

maybe it might be because the next step would be to realise that Government is an adversary of God, therefore the Hebrew word for adversary would be applied, the act of worship is simply keeping the commandments, is everybody a happy worshipper of Government? [following their commandments?]
only fair that I mention the Hebrew word for adversary, it happens to be 'Satan'
https://www.etymonline.com/word/satan

[pj1]

maybe it might be because the next step would be to realise that Government is an adversary of God, therefore the Hebrew word for adversary would be applied, the act of worship is simply keeping the commandments, is everybody a happy worshipper of Government? [following their commandments?]
only fair that I mention the Hebrew word for adversary, it happens to be 'Satan'
https://www.etymonline.com/word/satan

What on earth are you talking about?  What has any of this got to do with the FE conspiracy? 

And by the way, you can't simply state that the Government is an adversary of God in order to shoehorn in your 'satan' comment. 

[angry monk]

The question is why would government lie about the shape of the earth, all i am doing is establishing who this fictitious religion called government is,
interesting origin of the word "vote" may help you decide if a government considers itself to be a god

"a vow, wish, promise to a god, solemn pledge, dedication,"
https://www.etymonline.com/word/vote 
dont worry there are lots of unknowing Satanists about, it has been put about that to be a satanist you have to drink babies blood in a pentagram, there is no doubt that these type of people exist, but is that what it takes to be a satanist?
maybe we should get a petition going, but maybe not!
"a supplication or prayer, especially to a deity,"
https://www.etymonline.com/word/petition
and please read my signature

[TomInAustin]

What on earth are you talking about?  What has any of this got to do with the FE conspiracy? 

Some but not all FE'ers believe in FE being biblical based on some nebulous verses about firmaments and pillars.

[timterroo]

https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy#Motive_of_the_Conspiracy

Reposting this link to emphasize that this is not tfes conspiracy theory. The conspiracy is in space travel, not on the shape of the earth. NASA still believes the earth is round.

[MCToon]

https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy#Motive_of_the_Conspiracy

Reposting this link to emphasize that this is not tfes conspiracy theory. The conspiracy is in space travel, not on the shape of the earth. NASA still believes the earth is round.

From the above linked page:

At some point, perhaps after the Apollo 1 disaster, it was decided to fake the space program outright and use rockets which only needed to fly into the air until they disappeared from sight.

The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because NASA thinks it's round. They are not running a real space program, so they wouldn't know what shape the earth truly takes.

This introduces a lot of problems.  What was the space shuttle program?  Did they launch a shuttle while thousands watched, then it crashed into the ocean, days later to launch an identical shuttle from some remote location so it could land while thousands watched?

Do the commercial space companies also play the same game? For example, when the Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission (BTRC) handed over a milti-million dollar TV satellite to SpaceX, does it just fall into the ocean after launch?  BTRC then starts communicating with their satellite, who fakes that the satellite is in place?  When BTRC points their dishes towards where they think the satellite is, how does it work?  I've seen claims that people continuously launch balloons replicating the functionality of satellites, does SpaceX replicate the functions of the satellite in these balloons, thus faking their customer?  How could this be profitable for SpaceX?  Replicating the functionality of the satellite is non-trivial and maintaining the balloons during the entire life of the satellite is cumbersome, plus it's not in California, they would have to manage this near Bangladesh.  I don't see how this could be profitable, reverse engineering someone elses satellite is non trivial.  Faking the movement controls of someone elses satellite is non trivial.  Replicating the functionality of someone elses satelling is non trivial.

Or, on the other hand, is BTRC in on it as well, they handed over a dummy satellite and they manage the faking of the satellite functionality themselves?  Why would they do this, wouldn't it just be easier for them to just launch the balloons without the satellite fanfare?  How does this benefit the BTRC?  They don't have a vested interest if covering up NASA's coverup.

These issues don't go away with simplistic claims that NASA is just faking it, there are many other entities involved that would have to be enticed to fake it.  The scope of the conspiracy grows terribly large.

[Tom Bishop]

NASA doesn't actually build rockets or space ships. NASA is composed of a number of government contractors. "Commercial Space Companies" are NASA.

Per the Challenger Disaster



I more or less agree, with the exception of the guy with the gap in his tooth.

Source: https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/04/30/are-the-crew-members-of-1986-space-shuttle-challenger-still-alive/











Notice the upper lip of the Resnik woman:

[stack]

I more or less agree, with the exception of the guy with the gap in his tooth.

From the FET wiki FAQ:

In general, we at the Flat Earth Society do not lend much credibility to photographic evidence…"

https://wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions

I would have to say, this is a new low.

[Tumeni]

I more or less agree, with the exception of the guy with the gap in his tooth.

But that's a new topic. The topic here is the shape of the Earth, and the truth or not of whether or not Challenger was staged has absolutely no bearing on this.

The earth is portrayed as round in NASA media because NASA thinks it's round.

It's portrayed as round in Russian, Japanese, European, Chinese and Saudi-Arabian media too. As I said elsewhere, simplistic claims about "NASA lies", "NASA fakery" etc. don't hold water when only a small portion of the media and data is actually generated by NASA. Loose claims about NASA having multiple contractors in order to expand the 'conspiracy' to others don't hold water either.

It was portrayed as round in media hundreds of years before NASA was even thought of, too ....

[Lastwave88]

maybe it might be because the next step would be to realise that Government is an adversary of God, therefore the Hebrew word for adversary would be applied, the act of worship is simply keeping the commandments, is everybody a happy worshipper of Government? [following their commandments?]
only fair that I mention the Hebrew word for adversary, it happens to be 'Satan'
https://www.etymonline.com/word/satan

If we were created and live in a completed domed space, with everything we need to survive, then this would basically prove a creator or God. If we are just animals on a spinning ball then there is no God and it is all by chance so do whatever you want. That is why I think they have hidden it.

[pj1]

If we were created and live in a completed domed space, with everything we need to survive, then this would basically prove a creator or God. If we are just animals on a spinning ball then there is no God and it is all by chance so do whatever you want. That is why I think they have hidden it.

If I get home from work to find a delicious lasagne, does that prove that my wife can now cook?  No. There are infinite other possibilities.  Maybe the neighbour dropped it off. Maybe she want to a supermarket.

You're framing facts to fit your beliefs, rather than the other way around.

Edit:  Also, you're suggesting that the government (or NASA, or whomever) is trying to cover up the existence of a God? Why?

[MCToon]

NASA doesn't actually build rockets or space ships. NASA is composed of a number of government contractors. "Commercial Space Companies" are NASA.

The remainder of Tom's post is off-topic, though a thread on that topic would be interesting.

Fine, if you want to equate NASA and SpaceX, it works fine for the question at hand.  Is Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission paying someone to send up their multi million dollar satellite, then getting fooled about about it's location and function?  Or, is Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission just pretending to pay and send a satellite, then fooling the people of Bangladesh by using balloons or whatever to provide TV service?

[BigGuyWhoKills]

This introduces a lot of problems.  What was the space shuttle program?  Did they launch a shuttle while thousands watched, then it crashed into the ocean, days later to launch an identical shuttle from some remote location so it could land while thousands watched?

Do the commercial space companies also play the same game? For example, when the Bangladesh Telecommunication Regulatory Commission (BTRC) handed over a milti-million dollar TV satellite to SpaceX, does it just fall into the ocean after launch?  BTRC then starts communicating with their satellite, who fakes that the satellite is in place?  When BTRC points their dishes towards where they think the satellite is, how does it work?  I've seen claims that people continuously launch balloons replicating the functionality of satellites, does SpaceX replicate the functions of the satellite in these balloons, thus faking their customer?  How could this be profitable for SpaceX?  Replicating the functionality of the satellite is non-trivial and maintaining the balloons during the entire life of the satellite is cumbersome, plus it's not in California, they would have to manage this near Bangladesh.  I don't see how this could be profitable, reverse engineering someone elses satellite is non trivial.  Faking the movement controls of someone elses satellite is non trivial.  Replicating the functionality of someone elses satelling is non trivial.

Or, on the other hand, is BTRC in on it as well, they handed over a dummy satellite and they manage the faking of the satellite functionality themselves?  Why would they do this, wouldn't it just be easier for them to just launch the balloons without the satellite fanfare?  How does this benefit the BTRC?  They don't have a vested interest if covering up NASA's coverup.

These issues don't go away with simplistic claims that NASA is just faking it, there are many other entities involved that would have to be enticed to fake it.  The scope of the conspiracy grows terribly large.

Thank you for that!  That was a GREAT way to put the "conspiracy" into perspective.  I had never thought of it from a customer's perspective.

[timterroo]

maybe it might be because the next step would be to realise that Government is an adversary of God, therefore the Hebrew word for adversary would be applied, the act of worship is simply keeping the commandments, is everybody a happy worshipper of Government? [following their commandments?]
only fair that I mention the Hebrew word for adversary, it happens to be 'Satan'
https://www.etymonline.com/word/satan

If we were created and live in a completed domed space, with everything we need to survive, then this would basically prove a creator or God. If we are just animals on a spinning ball then there is no God and it is all by chance so do whatever you want. That is why I think they have hidden it.

Belief in a round earth does not make you an atheist.

In fact, if you believe that God made earth round, I would argue that you have stronger faith in God because a round earth leaves open the possibility that earth and all of life evolved - thus you have to make a conscious decision to believe in God. To believe in a flat earth and a dome leaves no other choice but to believe in a creator.

[MCToon]

maybe it might be because the next step would be to realise that Government is an adversary of God, therefore the Hebrew word for adversary would be applied, the act of worship is simply keeping the commandments, is everybody a happy worshipper of Government? [following their commandments?]
only fair that I mention the Hebrew word for adversary, it happens to be 'Satan'
https://www.etymonline.com/word/satan

If we were created and live in a completed domed space, with everything we need to survive, then this would basically prove a creator or God. If we are just animals on a spinning ball then there is no God and it is all by chance so do whatever you want. That is why I think they have hidden it.

Belief in a round earth does not make you an atheist.

In fact, if you believe that God made earth round, I would argue that you have stronger faith in God because a round earth leaves open the possibility that earth and all of life evolved - thus you have to make a conscious decision to believe in God. To believe in a flat earth and a dome leaves no other choice but to believe in a creator.

I agree.  As a round earther and old-earth creationist, this makes sense.  However, it is off topic, a different thread would seem to be appropriate to continue that discussion.

[timterroo]

Belief in God and flat earth was offered as a reason for the government hiding flat earth, so it is still on topic, but the creationist verse evolutionist perspective related to the shape of earth could easily be expanded in another topic.

[DocHolliday]

Wow, so many thoughts, so little time. I want to amplify on what McToon said, I hope I have the right person.

The notion that NASA is behind the coverup is fraught with problems many of which he already made clear. Here are a few more:

• If NASA and the US Government win by making us believe in RE, why wouldn't the Russians today, or the Soviets during the space race expose the fraud? Embarrassing and costing the US potentially billions of dollars and endless congressional hearings would have served the Russians very very well indeed. Especially when it was clear that they couldn't beat the US to a 'fake moon.'
• How did it occur to ancient politicians and scientists to start this gigantic hoax in the first place? Did they foresee the major benefits of the problem once the space race started?
• If FE favors the religious over the government, why did the church go along with the entire thing. As I recall they made life pretty miserable for RE'ers long ago. Why did they change their minds and say the earth was not flat?
• Related to the last point. What did the ancient scientists and eventually the church have to gain by hiding the flat earth story?
• What tangible benefit was there to say that sailors circum-navigate a globe, but it is really a plane?
• The lifting technology is the biggest and most expensive part of the equation. Why set up a system where you had to waste a 365 ft. tall Saturn V rocket with millions of pounds of rocket fuel just to fake the part that cost relatively little? Based on NASA budgets the Saturn V was around US$10 billion in 1970's dollars, not including fuel. The LEM and CSM together were around US$5.8 billion