alfred1

According to FEers the curvature of the earth as seen from Concord is due the shape of the window. My job at one time was polishing aircraft windows, including concord. concord's windows are small and almost flat. They can in no way distort the horizon. Another reason given was that you only have 60 degrees of vision and therefore your viewpoint is distorted. The cockpit crew have a 180 degree view. The horizon looks exactly the same through their window. How do you explain this?

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Offline Dr David Thork

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If you are told the horizon is curved, and you expect to see a curved horizon ... you'll see a curved horizon.

https://bigthink.com/Mind-Matters/seeing-things-that-arent-there-thats-just-your-brain-functioning-normally
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alfred1

If you are told the horizon is curved, and you expect to see a curved horizon ... you'll see a curved horizon.

https://bigthink.com/Mind-Matters/seeing-things-that-arent-there-thats-just-your-brain-functioning-normally
I was't TOLD it. I OBSERVED it.

alfred1

One  more thing. Are  you saying that everything we see is the way we see it is because we are told that is the way it looks?
If had a cube in my hand  and someone told me it was a ball. I would still see it as a cube.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 10:26:30 AM by alfred1 »

If you are told the horizon is curved, and you expect to see a curved horizon ... you'll see a curved horizon.

https://bigthink.com/Mind-Matters/seeing-things-that-arent-there-thats-just-your-brain-functioning-normally

So Baby T... I guess then you were 'TOLD' that earth is 'FLAT'.. that is why you see earth to be flat, isn't it...
That explains a lot about...

Do you think that the RE conspirators may also have done this to every one on earth, that's why every one believes earth is round, except for few of you FEer who somehow escaped that hypnotism (If I may term it so)??

alfred1

According to FEers the curvature of the earth as seen from Concord is due the shape of the window. My job at one time was polishing aircraft windows, including concord. concord's windows are small and almost flat. They can in no way distort the horizon. Another reason given was that you only have 60 degrees of vision and therefore your viewpoint is distorted. The cockpit crew have a 180 degree view. The horizon looks exactly the same through their window. How do you explain this?
I should also have said that every airline i the world would have to agree to have deliberately distorted windows installed. This is highly unlikely. The Civil Aircraft Authority would never approve either and they are very strict.

One  more thing. Are  you saying that everything we see is the way we see it is because we are told that is the way it looks?
If had a cube in my hand  and someone told me it was a ball. I would still see it as a cube.
It's important to realize that we all fall victim to confirmation bias. If you're expecting to see a curve, then you'll be more likely to see the curve. This is true. How many FE videos have you seen with those high altitude shots and they are saying, "see... no curve" ? It's because there's a very slight curve in the image, and confirmation bias is strong.

We fight biases like these with careful measurements.

alfred1

One  more thing. Are  you saying that everything we see is the way we see it is because we are told that is the way it looks?
If had a cube in my hand  and someone told me it was a ball. I would still see it as a cube.
It's important to realize that we all fall victim to confirmation bias. If you're expecting to see a curve, then you'll be more likely to see the curve. This is true. How many FE videos have you seen with those high altitude shots and they are saying, "see... no curve" ? It's because there's a very slight curve in the image, and confirmation bias is strong.


Of course this can't be because that's what you want us to believe. Personally, I see what is there regardless of what someone has told me is there. A ball is a ball no matter what anyone else calls it and that is what you see. (in my case that's true anyway.), As for the pictures offered by FEers. The ones I have seen are from low altitude  where the curve the earth isn't visible, and they right. I can't see a curve in them.

We fight biases like these with careful measurements.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 03:28:08 PM by alfred1 »

totallackey

You can claim "no distortion" as much as you like...

The facts have been, are, and will forevermore be, this:

If you are looking at something with a piece of glass placed in between you and the something being observed your vision is being distorted by the piece of glass.

Plain, pure, and simple.

Drops mic...

End of topic.

alfred1

You can claim "no distortion" as much as you like...

The facts have been, are, and will forevermore be, this:

If you are looking at something with a piece of glass placed in between you and the something being observed your vision is being distorted by the piece of glass.

Plain, pure, and simple.

Drops mic...
Concorde's windows are not glass, they are perspex. I had to check them for distortion and any distortion was found they where scraped. On the other distortion will be equal in all directions, not just horizontally.

End of topic.

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Offline AATW

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You can claim "no distortion" as much as you like...

The facts have been, are, and will forevermore be, this:

If you are looking at something with a piece of glass placed in between you and the something being observed your vision is being distorted by the piece of glass.

Plain, pure, and simple.

Drops mic...

End of topic.

That is actually true, BUT you don't see a curved horizon from most commercial planes. You apparently could from Concorde.
The RE explanation for this is that Concorde flew high enough to see a curve, other commercial airlines do not.
Your claim is that Concorde windows had a different kind of distortion which showed a curve in the horizon which other airplanes do not.
So couple of questions about that.
1) Do you have any evidence of that and
2) If that were so then surely the horizon would be curved on Concorde no matter your altitude, do you have any evidence that people saw a curved horizon all the way up, not just at cruising height?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline BillO

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You can claim "no distortion" as much as you like...

The facts have been, are, and will forevermore be, this:

If you are looking at something with a piece of glass placed in between you and the something being observed your vision is being distorted by the piece of glass.

Plain, pure, and simple.

Drops mic...

End of topic.
Yeah, light will be refracted through any piece of clear material, perspex or glass, if it is going through at an angle.  However, that piece of material is perfectly flat it would not result in a distortion of shape, just a translation or displacement - and then only if you are looking at the material from an angle.  If the material is dispersive, you may see colour fringing as well, but no curvature.  You can pick up your mic.
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

Please do not express unsubstantiated opinions about a subject you haven't bothered to study.

totallackey

You can claim "no distortion" as much as you like...

The facts have been, are, and will forevermore be, this:

If you are looking at something with a piece of glass placed in between you and the something being observed your vision is being distorted by the piece of glass.

Plain, pure, and simple.

Drops mic...

End of topic.

That is actually true, BUT you don't see a curved horizon from most commercial planes. You apparently could from Concorde.
The RE explanation for this is that Concorde flew high enough to see a curve, other commercial airlines do not.
Your claim is that Concorde windows had a different kind of distortion which showed a curve in the horizon which other airplanes do not.
So couple of questions about that.
1) Do you have any evidence of that and
2) If that were so then surely the horizon would be curved on Concorde no matter your altitude, do you have any evidence that people saw a curved horizon all the way up, not just at cruising height?
My claim is the view is distorted.

The OP claim is the Concorde had windows that did not distort.

That claim is patently false.
You can claim "no distortion" as much as you like...

The facts have been, are, and will forevermore be, this:

If you are looking at something with a piece of glass placed in between you and the something being observed your vision is being distorted by the piece of glass.

Plain, pure, and simple.

Drops mic...

End of topic.
Yeah, light will be refracted through any piece of clear material, perspex or glass, if it is going through at an angle.  However, that piece of material is perfectly flat it would not result in a distortion of shape, just a translation or displacement - and then only if you are looking at the material from an angle.  If the material is dispersive, you may see colour fringing as well, but no curvature.  You can pick up your mic.
This is so wrong you cannot even find a source to post in support.

Epic fail.

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Offline Tumeni

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My claim is the view is distorted.

So it would have been distorted whilst the craft was on the runway, then?

Or will someone suggest the craft was fitted with height-sensitive windows?
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline BillO

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Your are attempting to turn this into some sort of fight?  Why?  I'll note that you did not provide a source for your claim either.

Have a look at this:
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

Please do not express unsubstantiated opinions about a subject you haven't bothered to study.

totallackey

My claim is the view is distorted.

So it would have been distorted whilst the craft was on the runway, then?

Or will someone suggest the craft was fitted with height-sensitive windows?
Of course it is distorted wherever the plane is.

WTH is your point?

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Offline AATW

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My claim is the view is distorted.

So it would have been distorted whilst the craft was on the runway, then?

Or will someone suggest the craft was fitted with height-sensitive windows?
Of course it is distorted wherever the plane is.

WTH is your point?
I made the point above
Are you claiming that the horizon looks curved at all altitudes on Concorde? What is your evidence for that?
Are you claiming that there is something different about Concorde windows to other airline windows where that effect is not observed. If so then where is your evidence of that?
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

totallackey

Your are attempting to turn this into some sort of fight?  Why?  I'll note that you did not provide a source for your claim either.

Have a look at this:

Yes, your source addresses but one part of the distortion taking place.

Plus, we are not writing about a simple sheet of one ply glass in a fixed position, however...this is about glass (with multiple plies) that is subject to a multitude of forces, being shifted around within the frame of a supersonic plane.

And it is certainly no fight taking place as you have NO legitimate argument to present.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 12:45:53 PM by totallackey »

totallackey

My claim is the view is distorted.

So it would have been distorted whilst the craft was on the runway, then?

Or will someone suggest the craft was fitted with height-sensitive windows?
Of course it is distorted wherever the plane is.

WTH is your point?
I made the point above
Are you claiming that the horizon looks curved at all altitudes on Concorde? What is your evidence for that?
Are you claiming that there is something different about Concorde windows to other airline windows where that effect is not observed. If so then where is your evidence of that?
I am claiming you on the RE side have made the claim a curved horizon can be viewed at all altitudes and are the most biased presenters of a blatant falsehood in the history of humanity.

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Offline BillO

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Your are attempting to turn this into some sort of fight?  Why?  I'll note that you did not provide a source for your claim either.

Have a look at this:

Yes, your source addresses but one part of the distortion taking place.

Plus, we are not writing about a simple sheet of one ply glass in a fixed position, however...this is about glass (with multiple plies) that is subject to a multitude of forces, being shifted around within the frame of a supersonic plane.

And it is certainly no fight taking place as you have NO legitimate argument to present.
Where is your source?  Or by your onw rules , you are a total fail.  No?
Quote from: Ironic Pete
I DO NOT NEED DATA, I'M PRETTY SURE I'M RIGHT!!!!

You think something is true, and that's good enough for you.

Please do not express unsubstantiated opinions about a subject you haven't bothered to study.