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Other Discussion Boards => Science & Alternative Science => Topic started by: TrueRoundEarther on March 23, 2020, 09:20:40 PM

Title: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: TrueRoundEarther on March 23, 2020, 09:20:40 PM
This topic will be the *official discussion on debating Conventional Medicine and Alternative Medicine as in which is better. I look forward to seeing very interesting answers.
 :)




*This isn't official but I hope it becomes it.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: Rama Set on March 24, 2020, 12:19:36 AM
Evidence based medicine, thanks.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: TrueRoundEarther on March 24, 2020, 01:53:45 AM
Evidence based medicine, thanks.

Woohoo! You aren't that ONE person that says that snake oil or garlic can cure cancer. High-five!
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: Toddler Thork on March 24, 2020, 02:30:17 AM
Copper can kill coronavirus.

Not every old cure is worthless. Please enjoy this alternative method of protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1DK_1DthyM
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: JSS on March 24, 2020, 04:36:15 PM
Copper can kill coronavirus.

Not every old cure is worthless. Please enjoy this alternative method of protection.

How is copper alternative medicine?

It's widely known that copper kills bacteria, viruses, fungus, snails, fish and is poisonous to most invertebrates.  Science even knows why and how copper kills bacteria, in great detail.

Reflexology is alternative medicine.  Homeopathy is alternative medicine.  Chiropractors practice alternative medicine.  Crystal healing is alternative medicine.

As for the OP's question as to which is better, I think the one that actually cures people is better, so I'll use medicine when I'm sick and use crystals to sit on my desk and look pretty.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: Toddler Thork on March 24, 2020, 07:07:31 PM
How is copper alternative medicine?
I don't see doctors prescribing it. Its an alternative.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: JSS on March 24, 2020, 07:47:30 PM
How is copper alternative medicine?
I don't see doctors prescribing it. Its an alternative.

Treating a mask with a known anti-viral agent isn't alternative medicine just because a doctor doesn't write you a prescription.

Doctors don't prescribe soap, but will tell your to wash your hands with it.  That doesn't make soap 'alternate medicine' either.

But it does look like copper is prescribed for some conditions, according to the Mayo Clinic.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/copper-supplement-oral-route-parenteral-route/description/drg-20070120
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: TrueRoundEarther on March 24, 2020, 08:55:30 PM
Copper can kill coronavirus.

Not every old cure is worthless. Please enjoy this alternative method of protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1DK_1DthyM

I don't think copper can "kill" the coronavirus. You would have to introduce a vaccine to stop and luckily scientists are developing it.  :D

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Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: JSS on March 24, 2020, 09:47:25 PM
I don't think copper can "kill" the coronavirus. You would have to introduce a vaccine to stop and luckily scientists are developing it.  :D

It certainly can kill the coronavirus, the same way setting it on fire or pouring acid on it will kill it.  ( As far as you can kill something that isn't alive anyway. )

Copper surfaces tend to self-disinfect the same way silver does.

But you are right and make a good point, taking copper supplements won't help you get over the flu any more than drinking acid or setting yourself on fire will.  What can disinfect a surface doesn't help kill viruses inside the body.

Sadly it looks likely that the coronavirus could very well be here to stay, mutating every year like the regular flu does.  But with a vaccine we can at least protect against it better if it comes back every fall.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: TrueRoundEarther on March 25, 2020, 12:24:38 AM
I don't think copper can "kill" the coronavirus. You would have to introduce a vaccine to stop and luckily scientists are developing it.  :D

It certainly can kill the coronavirus, the same way setting it on fire or pouring acid on it will kill it.  ( As far as you can kill something that isn't alive anyway. )

Copper surfaces tend to self-disinfect the same way silver does.

But you are right and make a good point, taking copper supplements won't help you get over the flu any more than drinking acid or setting yourself on fire will.  What can disinfect a surface doesn't help kill viruses inside the body.

Sadly it looks likely that the coronavirus could very well be here to stay, mutating every year like the regular flu does.  But with a vaccine we can at least protect against it better if it comes back every fall.

Lol especially people taking MMS ("Miracle Mineral Solution). Drinking sodium chlorite does the job TOO WELL. There was a trial of 95 healthy people who were vaccinated for the coronavirus and hopefully great results show.

Now we need Tom Bishop and AllAroundTheWorld to join the discussion to see a fiery-I mean respectful debate.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: Tom Bishop on March 25, 2020, 03:37:56 AM
Don't say anything positive about an alternative therapy, even world news about what other countries are doing. The insufferable here will claim that you are telling people to ignore medical advice from their doctor.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: TrueRoundEarther on March 25, 2020, 12:41:50 PM
Don't say anything positive about an alternative therapy, even world news about what other countries are doing. The insufferable here will claim that you are telling people to ignore medical advice from their doctor.

Can you clarify what you said?
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: JSS on March 25, 2020, 01:02:52 PM
Don't say anything positive about an alternative therapy, even world news about what other countries are doing. The insufferable here will claim that you are telling people to ignore medical advice from their doctor.

I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to push back against people talking about alternate medicine because people do die after being told a chiropractor can cure your cancer. It's a real problem.

Think of it this way. If you are going to go sky diving, are you going to use a parachute designed by experts and packed by a professional or will you use some bed sheet and duct tape contraption some guy on the internet claims works better?  I wouldn't.  And I certainly wouldn't go around posting "Hey you don't need to pay someone lots of money to sell you some overpriced parachute, try this yourself instead!"

I might ask "Hey, anyone know if this thing would work, and how?"

If it was a truly revolutionary idea, it would get studied and tested and refined and eventually adopted and used.

Just like medicine.

The human body is an insanely complex system and people can spend their entire lives studying small parts of it. A doctor with 20 years of medical training and experience is simply going to know better than any of us that read a web page about some miracle cure. There is a ton of crap out there, and as a layman it's not easy to figure out what's real and what's someones delusion and what might be a deliberate scam.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: TrueRoundEarther on March 25, 2020, 03:15:23 PM
Don't say anything positive about an alternative therapy, even world news about what other countries are doing. The insufferable here will claim that you are telling people to ignore medical advice from their doctor.

I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to push back against people talking about alternate medicine because people do die after being told a chiropractor can cure your cancer. It's a real problem.

Think of it this way. If you are going to go sky diving, are you going to use a parachute designed by experts and packed by a professional or will you use some bed sheet and duct tape contraption some guy on the internet claims works better?  I wouldn't.  And I certainly wouldn't go around posting "Hey you don't need to pay someone lots of money to sell you some overpriced parachute, try this yourself instead!"

I might ask "Hey, anyone know if this thing would work, and how?"

If it was a truly revolutionary idea, it would get studied and tested and refined and eventually adopted and used.

Just like medicine.

The human body is an insanely complex system and people can spend their entire lives studying small parts of it. A doctor with 20 years of medical training and experience is simply going to know better than any of us that read a web page about some miracle cure. There is a ton of crap out there, and as a layman it's not easy to figure out what's real and what's someones delusion and what might be a deliberate scam.

I second this :)
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: Tom Bishop on March 26, 2020, 01:36:32 AM
Don't say anything positive about an alternative therapy, even world news about what other countries are doing. The insufferable here will claim that you are telling people to ignore medical advice from their doctor.

I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to push back against people talking about alternate medicine because people do die after being told a chiropractor can cure your cancer. It's a real problem.

Think of it this way. If you are going to go sky diving, are you going to use a parachute designed by experts and packed by a professional or will you use some bed sheet and duct tape contraption some guy on the internet claims works better?  I wouldn't.  And I certainly wouldn't go around posting "Hey you don't need to pay someone lots of money to sell you some overpriced parachute, try this yourself instead!"

I might ask "Hey, anyone know if this thing would work, and how?"

If it was a truly revolutionary idea, it would get studied and tested and refined and eventually adopted and used.

Just like medicine.

The human body is an insanely complex system and people can spend their entire lives studying small parts of it. A doctor with 20 years of medical training and experience is simply going to know better than any of us that read a web page about some miracle cure. There is a ton of crap out there, and as a layman it's not easy to figure out what's real and what's someones delusion and what might be a deliberate scam.

In many cases it is just Naturopathic doctors or researchers reporting the results of their findings. They aren't giving you any advice.

If I said that I had a stomach ache after drinking my city's water, I am merely reporting what I found. I didn't tell you not to drink my city's water.

If you visit an actual Naturopathic doctor for an alternative cancer treatment in a clinical setting they will advise you to try chemotherapy, and tell you that they can treat you with Vitamin C IVs in conjunction. You would need to insist and specifically ask that they only perform Vitamin C IV on you, if you want that, and sign various waivers.

The conversation was never about ignoring a successful (if arguably bad in the future) medical treatment. That is entirely something you guys made up entirely in your heads. If some things other than chemotherapy can help cancer, that can only be a good thing.

It is the whiny liberal crybabies complaining about alternative therapies that are holding us back in medical science.

It is the whining crybabies who are actually harming people, by treating natural therapies in that manner, and always jumping to the worst possible assumption or conclusion. Those are the bad people. Not the good Naturopathic doctors trying to help people.

If a researcher reports a result you should encourage and promote repetitions and wider trials, not try to shut it down, claiming that the researcher wants people to self treat. That is so deceitful to act that way. You have no idea what the doctor would actually prescribe in practice. Many NDs have MDs as well, and prescribe conventional therapies as applicable and necessary, often in conjunction or as primary or secondary lines of treatment. NDs do not encourage you to self treat, and would prefer that you consult with a professional to get appropriate advice for a serious health condition. NDs are also licensed by the state to operate, and you naysayers absolutely have no idea what you are talking about. The attitude displayed is one of assumption and ignorance. It is widespread and causes much harm.

If something was harmful the government would stop it, clearly, not license them to operate and set up boards to oversee that licencing.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: garygreen on March 26, 2020, 01:39:47 AM
The conversation was never about ignoring a successful (if arguably bad in the future) medical treatment. That is entirely something you guys made up entirely in your heads. If some things other than chemotherapy can help cancer, that can only be a good thing.

It is the whiny liberal crybabies complaining about alternative therapies that are holding us back in medical science.

There are certain people in the world who will tell you that cancer is terrible and impossible to cure without hundreds of thousands of dollars of state of the art medical care. I am here to tell you that this is false. Curing cancer is trivial. One does not need to consult an industry which profiteers off the backs of the dying. One merely needs to consult nature, which has already provided everything we need for our survival.

you're certainly allowed to change your opinions over time (as we all do), but it's nonsense to pretend that your former viewpoint is "made up entirely."
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: Tom Bishop on March 26, 2020, 02:35:48 AM
I am talking about natural treatment of cancer. Saying that cancer can be treated naturally and that it can be done without the chemotherapy industry is my opinion and isn't telling anyone to do anything. Show me where I told people to self treat.

The first two sentences in that post that you linked has me saying to see a professional.

Quote
This thread contains my own opinion on the possibility of cancer treatment with natural substances. Please consult a medical professional, such as a naturopathic doctor, before attempting to treat yourself or your loved ones for deadly diseases. Make sure to do a lot of research on the options available to you.

I don't tell people to do anything themselves about their cancer. If anything at all, I am encouraging people to treat disease with a naturopathic doctor. It is very possible that a nauturopathic doctor will advise only chemotherapy in some cases. You need to talk to a medical professional about it. They can also order the tests you need to check progress and can't get on your own.

Post the part where I told people to self treat for cancer.

You saw that disclaimer and ignored it. You picked out a sentence and then added your own imagination that I meant to do it on your own rather than to do it with a professional.

"One merely needs to consult nature" - That could mean objectively, for research purposes, or ultimately do under guidance of a professional. Not advice of self treatment. It says nowhere to treat a serious disease on your own. The first two sentences in the post tell you what the advice is. The advice is to do it with a professional. If you do it on your own you might do it wrong, and then you are dead.

With the proper amount of such accusatory arguments, naturopathic studies are limited from gaining traction in mainstream. This is why we may have safe naturopathic treatments that are beneficial, but are not in hospitals helping people. It is that attitude which causes this.

Statement like "Look at this doctor, he said that chemotherapy isn't technically necessary and that cancer can be treated without it" or "he said that x can treat cancer" is really about that doctor's opinion, and can be quite different than what will actually be used in that doctor's practice.  As are the results of any studies, experiments, and so on. Calls to shut them down are inappropriate.The doctor may end up doing something quite different than what is baselessly assumed.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: TrueRoundEarther on March 27, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Isn't most homeopathic and herbal remedies unregulated by the FDA because most products are classified as "food"?

Going to the topic of homeopathy isn't homeopathy just very diluted water and alcohol with a herb that almost non-existent in the concoction?
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: TrueRoundEarther on March 27, 2020, 01:16:01 PM
Here's a link about homeopathy to back my previous claim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HslUzw35mc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HslUzw35mc)
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: Fortuna on March 28, 2020, 10:33:32 AM
I worked in a supplement store a long time ago and people would come in with cancer asking what would cure them. I always told them to leave and ask their doctor. I’m wasn’t about to sell someone some cockamamie onion pills or whatever the fuck else and give them false hope just to make more money. Medicine is what has been clinically proven to work. Everything else may as well be garbage until proven otherwise. There is no “alternative” medicine.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: TrueRoundEarther on March 28, 2020, 09:25:02 PM
I worked in a supplement store a long time ago and people would come in with cancer asking what would cure them. I always told them to leave and ask their doctor. I’m wasn’t about to sell someone some cockamamie onion pills or whatever the fuck else and give them false hope just to make more money. Medicine is what has been clinically proven to work. Everything else may as well be garbage until proven otherwise. There is no “alternative” medicine.

I have one at my store and some of the supplements I see are just a scam, with low effectiveness and high prices. I'd say the only real beneficial supplement would by the Omega 3 but the other ones are pretty garbage. What's even worse is the people who work there are really nice people; they just have been misinformed to believe that modern medicine is dangerous.
Title: Re: Conventional Medicine V.S Alternative Medicine
Post by: JSS on March 29, 2020, 01:07:59 PM
I don't tell people to do anything themselves about their cancer. If anything at all, I am encouraging people to treat disease with a naturopathic doctor. It is very possible that a nauturopathic doctor will advise only chemotherapy in some cases. You need to talk to a medical professional about it. They can also order the tests you need to check progress and can't get on your own.

Post the part where I told people to self treat for cancer.

You saw that disclaimer and ignored it. You picked out a sentence and then added your own imagination that I meant to do it on your own rather than to do it with a professional.

Really? How about this, right before you spend pages and pages telling people how to perform various home cures.

There are certain people in the world who will tell you that cancer is terrible and impossible to cure without hundreds of thousands of dollars of state of the art medical care. I am here to tell you that this is false. Curing cancer is trivial. One does not need to consult an industry which profiteers off the backs of the dying. One merely needs to consult nature, which has already provided everything we need for our survival.

You are very clearly telling people that they do not need chemotherapy, surgery and hospitals to treat cancer. You said right there that is false. You said you do not need to consult with the evil medical industry. You said all you need is to consult nature, which in this case means eating garlic apparently, if mixed with hot peppers and eaten on bread.

You can put as many disclaimers as you want, but when you follow it up with pages and pages of discussion saying how licensed medical doctors are wrong and here are  bunch of things you can try at home, you can't go back and claim you aren't trying to convince people to self-treat instead of get real help.

Also be careful about telling people to go to a Naturopathic 'doctor'.  They are not licensed in all states and countries, and while some have real medical training, plenty of 'Naturopaths' have no actual medical credentials at all. Naturopaths, chiropractors, reflexologisists, they can all have some or no medical training.

Try to remember that most drugs come from nature. A huge part of drug research is looking for plants and natural substances that have positive effects, and then finding out why and how they work and how to make them safely. Where do you think we got aspirin? Not from a test tube. Drugs are just natural cures that have been proven to work. The difference between medicine and alternative medicine, is medicine works.

It takes a massive amount of testing to determine if a new compound is safe and effective. It's more complicated than just saying "Well this one guy took X and got better so it clearly must cure everyone!" Drug interactions are complex and hard to predict, you do NOT want to be taking random herbs if you're sick or being treated. People can and do die from that.

People should get medical advice from trained doctors, not random stuff they read on the internet.