. . . . . . . .The "highly informative" reply was:
(The Flat Earth had) no reasonable explanations for so many observations:
The sharp horizon, especially at sea on a clear day,
Lunar eclipses,
Sunrise and sunsets,
The constant size of the sun and almost constant of the moon from rising to setting,
The directions and times of sunrises and sunsets,
etc, etc.
And, before you ask, I have looked up "the Wiki" and read quite a lot ENAG.
. . . . . . . . . .I have found very little in the Q&A and to me, at least, "the Wiki" explanations are either quite impossible or completely unconvincing.
All of the observations are accounted for in FET. You say that you have read some of the reference material. I would suggest going back and doing it again.
. . . . . . . . . .
It seems all of you round earthers prefer arbitrarily making hollow statements rather than having an actual discussion. Oh well...
Yet, nothing! Junker doesn't debate, just refers you to Q&A and "the Wiki", both of which are useless.It seems all of you round earthers prefer arbitrarily making hollow statements rather than having an actual discussion. Oh well...
As far as I can see the OP has made a good first step toward an "actual discussion." I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what happens next. I am very interested to hear (by hear I actually mean read) both sides of this discussion.
Yet, nothing! Junker doesn't debate, just refers you to Q&A and "the Wiki", both of which are useless.It seems all of you round earthers prefer arbitrarily making hollow statements rather than having an actual discussion. Oh well...
As far as I can see the OP has made a good first step toward an "actual discussion." I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what happens next. I am very interested to hear (by hear I actually mean read) both sides of this discussion.
I know my answers to all those things, so it's not much point my posting further on my own topic.
Maybe after a decent time has elapsed I could "read the last rites" and pronounce the topics as "dead and buried", which would include
"It is hereby declared that
The Flat Earth has no reasonable explanations for:
The sharp horizon, especially at sea on a clear day,
Lunar eclipses,
Sunrise and sunsets,
The constant size of the sun and almost constant of the moon from rising to setting,
The directions and times of sunrises and sunsets
so five more nails are hereby driven into the coffin of the Flat Earth.
May it forever rest in peace!"
It seems all of you round earthers prefer arbitrarily making hollow statements rather than having an actual discussion. Oh well...
As far as I can see the OP has made a good first step toward an "actual discussion." I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what happens next. I am very interested to hear (by hear I actually mean read) both sides of this discussion.
Yet, nothing! Junker doesn't debate, just refers you to Q&A and "the Wiki", both of which are useless.Please stop with the baseless, nonsensical claims. You haven't asked me to debate anything.
I know my answers to all those things, so it's not much point my posting further on my own topic.Irrelevant.
I wonder if junker considers the amateur radio "Moon Bounce" as "arbitrarily making hollow statements rather having an actual discussion." Speaking for my fellow hams and one of my favorite subjects.
Please stop with the baseless, nonsensical claims. You haven't asked me to debate anything.How about engaging in an actual discussion with the OP regarding one or more of the five points he brought up?
I am happy to have an actual discussion. Someone should try to start one.
The Lunar Eclipse
A Lunar Eclipse occurs about twice a year when a satellite of the sun passes between the sun and moon.
This satellite is called the Shadow Object. Its orbital plane is tilted at an angle of about 5°10' to the sun's orbital plane, making eclipses possible only when the three bodies (Sun, Object, and Moon) are aligned and when the moon is crossing the sun's orbital plane (at a point called the node).
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The shadow object is never seen because it orbits close to the sun. As the sun's powerful vertical rays hit the atmosphere during the day they will scatter and blot out nearly every single star and celestial body in the sky. We are never given a glimpse of the celestial bodies which appear near the sun during the day - they are completely washed out by the sun's light.[1]
It is estimated that the Shadow Object is around five to ten miles in diameter. Since it is somewhat close to the sun the manifestation of its penumbra upon the moon appears as a magnified projection. This is similar to how during a shadow puppet show your hand's shadow can make a large magnified projection upon your bedroom wall as you move it closer to the flashlight.
Yet, nothing! Junker doesn't debate, just refers you to Q&A and "the Wiki", both of which are useless.Please stop with the baseless, nonsensical claims. You haven't asked me to debate anything.QuoteI know my answers to all those things, so it's not much point my posting further on my own topic.Irrelevant.I wonder if junker considers the amateur radio "Moon Bounce" as "arbitrarily making hollow statements rather having an actual discussion." Speaking for my fellow hams and one of my favorite subjects.
Why would you wonder that? I thought I was fairly clear about the hollow claims RErs were making. You sure do seem to like to make up scenarios, it seems.
Are you saying the "Moon Bounce" is a "hollow claim and a made up scenario " ?
How about a debate on "What is the distance from the earth to the moon and what have been the methods to measure the distance." ?
Given your history of literally making things up, I'm not sure a debate with you is even possible. I'm willing to give it a try though. The distance to the moon from earth is variable. There have been quite a few methods for measuring the aforementioned distance. I'd suggest reading Wikipedia's article on them.
Are you saying the "Moon Bounce" is a "hollow claim and a made up scenario " ?
No, I literally didn't say that. I'm not sure why you're trying to twist words and continue to make up things that never happened. Or maybe you just really struggle with reading comprehension.QuoteHow about a debate on "What is the distance from the earth to the moon and what have been the methods to measure the distance." ?
Given your history of literally making things up, I'm not sure a debate with you is even possible. I'm willing to give it a try though. The distance to the moon from earth is variable. There have been quite a few methods for measuring the aforementioned distance. I'd suggest reading Wikipedia's article on them.
Wouldn't that website be easier to fake than the space race and whatever you believe NASA has been doing this whole time?I am not sure what you are talking about. I haven't made any claim about NASA in this thread.
For a beginningThis isn't a debate. This is you asking pointless questions. I would suggest you learn what it means to debate, and maybe try again when you better understand what it means.
Do you believe that "Moon Bounce" is real or made up ?
And....But.....Doesn't flat earth say that the moon is a constant 3000 miles from the earth ?Some flat earth proponents believe the moon is 3000 miles from earth, sure.
If you say that the distance varies aren't you agreeing with the true "round earth" facts ?No.
If you go down to the beach and look out to sea, what do you see ?Irrelevant.
If you are of average height, how far can you see to the horizon ? :)
I am happy to have an actual discussion. Someone should try to start one.
The distance from the earth to the moon does vary. At the particular time and date the ham radio operators calculated the distance was 238,150 miles.My reply is that ham radio operators claim to have calculated a distance of 238,150 miles.
What is your reply to that.?
When I went down to the beach, I could see the horizon and it was a distinct line where the sea and sky meet and it was about 2 to 3 miles distant.My reply is that this is mostly irrelevant.
What is your reply to that ?
In these examples how does TFES explain the difference between flat earth and round earth ?Nothing in what you posted suggests a round earth.
On the flat earth, all that limits the distance we can see is limited transparency of the atmosphere.The distance from the earth to the moon does vary. At the particular time and date the ham radio operators calculated the distance was 238,150 miles.My reply is that ham radio operators claim to have calculated a distance of 238,150 miles.
What is your reply to that.?QuoteWhen I went down to the beach, I could see the horizon and it was a distinct line where the sea and sky meet and it was about 2 to 3 miles distant.My reply is that this is mostly irrelevant.
What is your reply to that ?
QuoteIn these examples how does TFES explain the difference between flat earth and round earth ?Nothing in what you posted suggests a round earth.
This isn't a debate. ... I would suggest you learn what it means to debate, and maybe try again when you better understand what it means.
Junker asks why we don't start a thread.
Well, I thought I did, and was asking for the Flat Earth explanation of five observations. I did say that a responder could pick one topic, but no-one has.
So I ask straight out "How is a lunar eclipse explained on the Flat Earth?"
The TFES Wki gives the following explanation:Quote from: the WikiThe Lunar Eclipse
A Lunar Eclipse occurs about twice a year when a satellite of the sun passes between the sun and moon.
This satellite is called the Shadow Object. Its orbital plane is tilted at an angle of about 5°10' to the sun's orbital plane, making eclipses possible only when the three bodies (Sun, Object, and Moon) are aligned and when the moon is crossing the sun's orbital plane (at a point called the node).
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The shadow object is never seen because it orbits close to the sun. As the sun's powerful vertical rays hit the atmosphere during the day they will scatter and blot out nearly every single star and celestial body in the sky. We are never given a glimpse of the celestial bodies which appear near the sun during the day - they are completely washed out by the sun's light.[1]
It is estimated that the Shadow Object is around five to ten miles in diameter. Since it is somewhat close to the sun the manifestation of its penumbra upon the moon appears as a magnified projection. This is similar to how during a shadow puppet show your hand's shadow can make a large magnified projection upon your bedroom wall as you move it closer to the flashlight.
The geometry I interpret from the Wiki for a lunar eclipse is:(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Flat%20Earth%20Sun%20Lunar%20Eclipse_zpskwgdfbbw.png)
Flat Earth Sun, Shadow Object and Lunar Eclipse
I cannot see how this explanation is feasible. It does not matter where the "Shadow Object" is locateda "five to ten miles in diameter" "Shadow Object" simply cannot block all the light from a 32 mile diameter sun from reaching a 32 mile diameter moon.Also any object that size and distance would have shown up on radar long ago.
The topic of lunar eclipses has been brought up numerous times here and on TheFlatEarthSociety.org numerous times and as far as I am concerned no-one has any plausible "flat earth" explanation.
I tried to get some answers to this and the related "moon phases" problem in
Why should anyone believe the earth is flat? « Reply #75 on: March 16, 2016, 11:08:14 PM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4765.msg92481#msg92481).
How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone? « on: April 28, 2016, 08:40:55 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4898.msg95513#msg95513)
How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone? « on: April 24, 2016, 01:29:43 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4898.msg95157#msg95157)
So what is the cause of a lunar eclipse?
Heh, yet again, sidetracking, teaching what debating is, steering away from OP, and high-horsing.
It's junkers modus operandi, I'm not sure why you're even trying, rabinoz. :)
This isn't a debate. ... I would suggest you learn what it means to debate, and maybe try again when you better understand what it means.
I would really like to have an actual discussion and/or debate regarding various issues pertaining to the shape of the earth. I have done quite well in discussions and debates previously. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that, like geckothegeek, I don't know what it means to debate/discuss with you, or at least I need a better understanding of it. Can you point me to an example of what you would consider a debate/discussion between people who have learned what it means to debate and understand it well? Or perhaps you could outline for me how a debate should be performed.
And here is the question the OP is wanting to have an actual discussion about:Junker asks why we don't start a thread.
Well, I thought I did, and was asking for the Flat Earth explanation of five observations. I did say that a responder could pick one topic, but no-one has.
So I ask straight out "How is a lunar eclipse explained on the Flat Earth?"
The TFES Wki gives the following explanation:Quote from: the WikiThe Lunar Eclipse
A Lunar Eclipse occurs about twice a year when a satellite of the sun passes between the sun and moon.
This satellite is called the Shadow Object. Its orbital plane is tilted at an angle of about 5°10' to the sun's orbital plane, making eclipses possible only when the three bodies (Sun, Object, and Moon) are aligned and when the moon is crossing the sun's orbital plane (at a point called the node).
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The shadow object is never seen because it orbits close to the sun. As the sun's powerful vertical rays hit the atmosphere during the day they will scatter and blot out nearly every single star and celestial body in the sky. We are never given a glimpse of the celestial bodies which appear near the sun during the day - they are completely washed out by the sun's light.[1]
It is estimated that the Shadow Object is around five to ten miles in diameter. Since it is somewhat close to the sun the manifestation of its penumbra upon the moon appears as a magnified projection. This is similar to how during a shadow puppet show your hand's shadow can make a large magnified projection upon your bedroom wall as you move it closer to the flashlight.
The geometry I interpret from the Wiki for a lunar eclipse is:(http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w433/RabDownunder/Flat%20Earth%20Sun%20Lunar%20Eclipse_zpskwgdfbbw.png)
Flat Earth Sun, Shadow Object and Lunar Eclipse
I cannot see how this explanation is feasible. It does not matter where the "Shadow Object" is locateda "five to ten miles in diameter" "Shadow Object" simply cannot block all the light from a 32 mile diameter sun from reaching a 32 mile diameter moon.Also any object that size and distance would have shown up on radar long ago.
The topic of lunar eclipses has been brought up numerous times here and on TheFlatEarthSociety.org numerous times and as far as I am concerned no-one has any plausible "flat earth" explanation.
I tried to get some answers to this and the related "moon phases" problem in
Why should anyone believe the earth is flat? « Reply #75 on: March 16, 2016, 11:08:14 PM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4765.msg92481#msg92481).
How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone? « on: April 28, 2016, 08:40:55 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4898.msg95513#msg95513)
How does a Full Moon appear Full for everyone? « on: April 24, 2016, 01:29:43 AM » (http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4898.msg95157#msg95157)
So what is the cause of a lunar eclipse?