Offline Action80

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Autonomous weapons systems
« on: January 18, 2025, 07:53:33 AM »
I read this article concerning the building of a new weapons plant in Columbus, Ohio.
US Defense Contractor to Build ‘Hyperscale’ Weapons Manufacturing Facility in Ohio

"Arsenal-1 represents a step forward in how we manufacture the autonomous systems and weapons that our nation and our allies need to remain secure.”, said Anduril CEO Brian Schimpf."

While the project will reportedly add 4,000 new jobs in the State of Ohio, my question is what happens when one of the autonomous weapons chooses to start eliminating the workforce and/or the other stakeholders of the company?
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2025, 11:19:20 AM »
Autonomous in this sense still requires someone to push a button.  But once the button is pushed, it can determine how best to hit the target.

So it won't.
Not unless someone hacks into the systems.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2025, 12:13:25 PM »
According to this, they do not require any human intervention or initiative:

do autonomous weapons require any human interaction?

Further, "There are varying levels of system autonomy depending on human involvement, but the full measure of an autonomous weapon system is its ability to conduct this process without the need for human decision-making."
Fact Sheet: Autonomous Weapons
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2025, 12:20:34 PM »
Someone still needs to put the batteries in, charge it up, switch it on or whatever. 

Or not. 

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2025, 12:27:15 PM »
According to this, they do not require any human intervention or initiative:

do autonomous weapons require any human interaction?

Further, "There are varying levels of system autonomy depending on human involvement, but the full measure of an autonomous weapon system is its ability to conduct this process without the need for human decision-making."
Fact Sheet: Autonomous Weapons


I'll need to read that but if that's correct, that's a deviation from previous military policy and thats concerning.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2025, 01:02:14 PM »
Someone still needs to put the batteries in, charge it up, switch it on or whatever. 

Or not.
Once you have an autonomous machine capable of building a machine, then what?
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2025, 02:24:25 PM »
Someone still needs to put the batteries in, charge it up, switch it on or whatever. 

Or not.
Once you have an autonomous machine capable of building a machine, then what?
They fail once a bug in the software is found and it glitches. 
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2025, 10:21:10 PM »
There have been autonomous underwater drones in existence for quite a while.  The drones have to be told what the mission is before they are launched.  There is a communications limit to any underwater vessel and unless the robot has been programmed to surface and make some kind of satellite or other WiFi connection to a central control every operation is done autonomously.  An underwater drone could be weaponized but before it was launched the internal computer would have to be programmed with specific instructions to tell the drone what to do if it encounters the enemy.  The enemy would have to be very specifically defined so the drone could tell the difference between the enemy and friendly forces.   
« Last Edit: January 19, 2025, 04:03:31 AM by RonJ »
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2025, 05:00:50 PM »
You are not describing an autonomous weapons system, Ronj.

Do you have a comment relating to the OP?
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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2025, 06:47:46 PM »
Currently, an autonomous weapons system can only execute computer code that was programmed and then extensively tested by humans.   So far there are no computers that have an independent consciousness that can take over an autonomous weapons system and start killing humans.  If a plant in Ohio starts building autonomous systems, it will only be capable of executing what the programmers tell it to do before it’s launched into the environment.  I wouldn’t be a bit afraid of becoming a stockholder of such a corporation if I thought it was a good financial opportunity and certainly wouldn't worry about the robots they produced coming around to kill me.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2025, 09:03:51 PM by RonJ »
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2025, 03:54:12 AM »
Did you read the article I posted and or any of the other sources? They say the exact opposite of what you write.

AI can now write programs and code with no human intervention.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2025, 07:45:25 AM by Action80 »
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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2025, 02:12:32 PM »
AI can now write programs and code with no human intervention.

No it can't. It produces strange, buggy code that has to be manually debugged.

I've used AI to fix code and research syntax. It's a long, long way from producing code for production.

The more realistic danger is that military hardware will be poised to act autonomously based on input. If it detects certain radar signatures, it will let missiles fly without telling anyone. A cruise missile is autonomous once launched but if we automate the firing of those missiles with Skynet software, then we're in Terminator territory.

The realistic scenario isn't that AI will suddenly decide to take over Earth, but that the Chinese will hack into it and fuck with its mind. Maybe a cheap ssd will glitch somewhere and things suddenly launch. Achieving malevolent awareness is not a danger we currently face with AI.
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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2025, 03:01:22 PM »
Computers can still only execute code that humans programmed them to do.  Even when computers can write their own code, who wrote the code that enables them to do that? Humans.   Computers are nowhere near thinking for themselves yet.  Their infrastructure is completely human enabled and until that changes robots will never be able to weaponize themselves and autonomously  go out and start killing humans.  I’m not saying that would not be possible sometime in the future, but we are nowhere even close to that happening yet.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2025, 04:07:44 PM »
Neither one of you have any clue. You are just posting a bunch of nonsense.

Either post evidence of your claims or stfu.
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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2025, 05:12:43 PM »
Neither one of you have any clue. You are just posting a bunch of nonsense.

Either post evidence of your claims or stfu.

Post some code punklet.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2025, 05:38:22 PM »
Looks like I'll have to stfu. 
My only evidence (experience) is writing my first code back in 1966 and then off/on until just last week.  Guess that doesn't qualify me, according to someone, to understand the latest issues regarding computer controlled autonomous weapons systems and what it would take for them to become dangerous to the average human walking down the street.     
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2025, 08:29:15 AM »
How could I post some code matching code used by an AI.

And you are correct, Ronj. Your experience alone does not qualify you to be an expert in the field of AI capability.

You can still have an opinion on the morality of its use and that is primarily what this thread is about.

The fact is AI can write programming for autonomous weapons systems. There is no disputing that.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2025, 10:32:07 AM »
How could I post some code matching code used by an AI.

And you are correct, Ronj. Your experience alone does not qualify you to be an expert in the field of AI capability.

You can still have an opinion on the morality of its use and that is primarily what this thread is about.

The fact is AI can write programming for autonomous weapons systems. There is no disputing that.

Yes and no.
AI is a big 'next word's predictor.  And it uses that with its training data to make code.  What it spits out will depend on the complexity of what you ask it to do as well as how documented the code you want, is. (Ie. Lots of examples vs few)

It also will have issues staying coordinated with itself.  Like not keeping variable names consistent across functions.  Or not using the correct number of arguments when calling a function.

If you get anything back, it's not gonna compile, much less work.  Manual coding and fixing will be required.  And for anything autonomous, it's gonna take more work to fix it, than to code it from scratch.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2025, 11:22:23 AM »
AI can certainly write code that will compile.

I do not know where you are getting your information or why you are choosing to write false information.
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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2025, 12:47:28 PM »
AI can certainly write code that will compile.

I do not know where you are getting your information or why you are choosing to write false information.

Written by someone who has never produced a line of code in their life. Compiling code, running code and secure code are all different things.

Everything you believe, everything you think you know is rooted in ignorance with no real experience to back it up. You are a mindless minion of misinformation being used by grifters and despots. Enjoy.
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