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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2025, 08:17:12 PM »
Your idea of a self-replicating machine seems to be greatly misunderstood by you.  Perhaps you should use AI to increase your understanding.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2025, 09:03:57 PM »
AATW wrote that machines cannot self-replicate.

Machines can self-replicate.

AATW lied, I did not.

The AI program I linked to is not in early development.

From the link: "This program is now complete
This content is available for reference purposes. This page is no longer maintained."

You, too, are lying.

WTF is the matter with you?

I did not see the complete bit.  Congrats... you linked to an AI model that... explains its logic.  Congrats... I'm sure that'll help it write code.


The self-replicating bots require a human to give them material.  If that's what you call "self replicating" then you have a very loose definition.
The conviction will get overturned on appeal.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2025, 11:42:56 PM »
I would call it self-replicating if you could drop off a few robots on Mars and come back in a couple thousand years and see a much larger robot population.  Think what would be necessary for that to happen.  The robots would have to find material, mine it, refine it, and then shape it to the right form.  Power plants would have to be designed & built so electricity would be available.  Microprocessors would need to be designed, constructed, and programmed.  The process goes on & on and hopefully there would be no hardware or software malfunctions along the way while the robots are getting things ready to build more of their kind. 


Mankind made that process happen over lots of years while regenerating all along the way.  A cave man could reproduce, amoebas can do it, along will all kinds of other biological species. You see the problems that a robot would face?  Do you really think you will actually see that in the next 1000 years?   Perhaps in the future an alien species will come by that's friendly and give mankind a technological boost to shorten the time span but without that it will take the future generations quite a bit of time to become a robot God.     
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

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Online AATW

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2025, 09:27:22 AM »
Your idea of a self-replicating machine seems to be greatly misunderstood by you.  Perhaps you should use AI to increase your understanding.
It would be nice if he had any kind of "I" tbf.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Online AATW

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2025, 09:30:29 AM »
AATW wrote that machines cannot self-replicate.

Machines can self-replicate.

AATW lied, I did not.
Firstly, you don't understand what lying is. Someone saying something untrue isn't necessarily lying. You have to demonstrate they are knowingly saying something incorrect in an attempt to deceive. Learn what words mean.
Secondly, what I said isn't untrue. Even if there are some very very limited cases of machines being taught to build copies of themselves, you still have to provide the components for them to do so and the instructions. We are absolutely nowhere near the sci-fi version of self-replicating machines which is what most people mean when they talk about this.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2025, 10:06:00 AM »
Machines can self-replicate .

You wrote they cannot self-replicate.

That is a lie.

The reason it is a lie is due to the fact you are now admitting there are machines that can self-replicate.

Obfuscation and deceit are synonymous.

You are a liar.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Online AATW

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2025, 11:36:17 AM »
The reason it is a lie is due to the fact you are now admitting there are machines that can self-replicate.
I also added some context which you have dishonestly ignored about what people generally mean by self-replicating machines.
Stop trying to score internet points and stop talking about topics which you clearly don't understand. Which is quite a lot of topics.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2025, 11:48:34 AM »
The reason it is a lie is due to the fact you are now admitting there are machines that can self-replicate.
I also added some context which you have dishonestly ignored about what people generally mean by self-replicating machines.
Stop trying to score internet points and stop talking about topics which you clearly don't understand. Which is quite a lot of topics.
The OP is about the workings of autonomous weapons systems.

AI plays a part in that as well as machines.

Several claims made by ilk (such as you) have been made regarding the current ability of machines and AI, all of the claims having nothing to do with military applications, but simply talk about experiments done about the "home."

Your additional context stated "materials have to be provided by (humans.)

That, too, is horseshit.

GFY, liar.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Online AATW

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2025, 12:18:03 PM »
You really need to get so cross with people because you don't know what you're talking about.
Multiple people have told you that you don't know what you're talking about.
And you just keep coming back with your terminal Dunning-Kruger doubling down on your ignorance and getting angry with people who point it out.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2025, 12:48:22 PM »
You really need to get so cross with people because you don't know what you're talking about.
Multiple people have told you that you don't know what you're talking about.
And you just keep coming back with your terminal Dunning-Kruger doubling down on your ignorance and getting angry with people who point it out.

I've noticed the same with various species of Trumpian.
I think as they become aware of how ignorant they really are about reality, it causes unimaginable self hatred and regret. They helplessly lash out at the world as their anger consumes them.

We see the same in a few species of liberal but they're usually not as heavily armed as redneck Trumpians.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2025, 12:51:18 PM »
You really need to get so cross with people because you don't know what you're talking about.
Multiple people have told you that you don't know what you're talking about.
And you just keep coming back with your terminal Dunning-Kruger doubling down on your ignorance and getting angry with people who point it out.
Multiple people would get cross with people like you who deliberately write material that is patently untrue and deceiving.

I am in the majority here.

You don't like the fact I will not put up with it and I call you out concerning your peddling of bullshit.

Go ahead and report me if you feel so offended or that I am treating you unfairly.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2025, 04:21:18 PM »
Machines can self-replicate .
You don't have a 'machine' here.  The starting cell structure was from a frog that wasn't man made.  What you have here is a very primitive 'Frankenstein' monster.  If a cell structure self-replicates to another structure that 'looks' like itself, but that replication can't in-turn self-replicate then the process isn't really completed, and you don't really have self-replication.   If you could put a few of those tiny 'bots' in a dish and check back later and you find 1000's more your case might have a bit more creditability but nowhere did I see that in the video.

I think you may be consulting the wrong version of AI. 
It would be better to use Artificial Intelligence version NOT the Artificial Ignorance one!  We all have to start somewhere, and now that you've made a good start it's now time to upgrade to the better version AI. 
Get it ?  --   Got it ?  --  Gooooood !
« Last Edit: January 23, 2025, 11:05:55 PM by RonJ »
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!

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Online AATW

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2025, 04:45:44 PM »
Go ahead and report me if you feel so offended or that I am treating you unfairly.
There's nothing to report.
Being ignorant isn't against any forum rules.
It's just a bit weird how you revel in that ignorance and get cross with people who clearly know a lot more than you on certain topics - like the multiple people in this thread who are telling you what utter nonsense you're spouting.

I've been quite clear that when I'm talking about self-replicating machines I'm talking about the sci-fi Terminator kind of thing which is how most people understand that term - that's the context in which you brought this up. They don't exist. They're nowhere near existing.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2025, 12:41:02 AM »
Actually, if you want to be paranoid about self replicating machines, you need to gear up for the grey goo.

Long before shiny Terminator robots coming stomping around with machine guns, nanobots the size of a large bacteria, built from silicone and quartz crystals layered with complex metallic folds will be designed by AI to create medical chemicals from raw materials. At first these robots are fed organic molecules to manufacture hormones, proteins and even flesh.
Eventually, a nanobot built from a few simple molecules like a virus, will be designed to self replicate and will get spilled in a lab. It's built to consume any atom on the first third of the Periodic Table. There will we all kinds of screaming and suffering as it rips through everything around it like a spreading grey goo until it consumes the whole planet. 

It will totally suck but it will be over quickly.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2025, 08:03:52 AM »
I did not bring up autonomous weapons systems within the context of "Terminators."

You fucking "imagined," I did, much like all of your other goddamn contributions in this forum since you joined.

You are a dishonest and illegitimate presence in this forum, just like Pete and many others have pointed out to you on many occasions.

Where did I state the word "Terminators," within the OP or any other place within the thread, except in this reply.

As to whether there is or is not "anything to report," I called YOU (yes, YOU) a liar.

That is against the forum rules (unless it is objectively true).

So, if you believe you are posting honest assessments regarding the current abilities of AI and self-replicating machines (within the context of autonomous weapons systems operation and functionality), then you would need to report me for violating the rules of the forum.

Jesus, quit fucking lying and offer a legitimate opinion about the OP or GTFO here.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 08:41:07 AM by Action80 »
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2025, 02:13:23 PM »
I did not bring up autonomous weapons systems within the context of "Terminators."

You fucking "imagined," I did, much like all of your other goddamn contributions in this forum since you joined.

You are a dishonest and illegitimate presence in this forum, just like Pete and many others have pointed out to you on many occasions.

Where did I state the word "Terminators," within the OP or any other place within the thread, except in this reply.

As to whether there is or is not "anything to report," I called YOU (yes, YOU) a liar.

That is against the forum rules (unless it is objectively true).

So, if you believe you are posting honest assessments regarding the current abilities of AI and self-replicating machines (within the context of autonomous weapons systems operation and functionality), then you would need to report me for violating the rules of the forum.

Jesus, quit fucking lying and offer a legitimate opinion about the OP or GTFO here.

My completely legit response came as a result of your hyperbolic goings on about AI and self-replicating machines.

Maybe you should type your responses in all caps and use more curse words. It won't help your point but you might feel better, maybe relieve some anger.
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Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2025, 03:34:45 PM »
My reply was not directed at you, Kramer.

However, you have offered nothing relevant or insightful regarding the OP either.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Online AATW

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2025, 09:39:59 PM »
I did not bring up autonomous weapons systems within the context of "Terminators."

I'll just leave this here:

Someone still needs to put the batteries in, charge it up, switch it on or whatever. 

Or not.
Once you have an autonomous machine capable of building a machine, then what?

You didn't use the word "Terminators", but the way you used the term was clear hand wringing about "the machines" taking over. This was your original question:

Quote
what happens when one of the autonomous weapons chooses to start eliminating the workforce and/or the other stakeholders of the company?

That's not going to happen. Certainly not in your lifetime or mine.
My gut feeling is it's going to be a very very long time, if ever. The sort of technology you're talking about doesn't exist and is absolutely nowhere near existing. Now you're flailing around talking about a very limited use case of some self-replicating cells. Which is nothing like what you first started talking about. And you're getting cross with me because you don't know what you're talking about.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2025, 03:07:37 AM »
Again with the dishonest characterization of my posts.

Using perjoratives like "handwringing."

Fucking disgusting and dishonest tactics.

"In robotics, AI sentience means that a robot is designed to execute particular activities and can make decisions, feel emotions, and interact with the environment in a manner comparable to that of a human being. One example of AI sentience in robotics is the case of the AI robot named 'Bina48'."

BINA48 has been in existence for over 20 years.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline RonJ

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Re: Autonomous weapons systems
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2025, 06:11:59 PM »
More robotics trolling?  Probably so. 
When I asked AI if BINA48 was sentient it responded as I expected.  BINA48 is still a modern-day digital parrot.  An internet connection is used to  generate pre-programmed responses and machine learning algorithms.  Any perceptions of emotions are programmed algorithms designed to mimic certain human behaviors.  All are merely simulations of human emotions.
 
I am not saying that this is bad.  When I am working on a hobby project AI is soooo useful.  It’s a great interface for quickly looking up information.  Back in the day I would spend hours in a library doing the same kind of things I can do now with AI in a few minutes. 


If you go thru some of the references related to BINA48 there was one that suggested it would be better for a robot to be programmed with the intellect of a baby and then start subjecting it to early childhood experiences and then progress toward adulthood.  That might produce a better simulation of sentience than is currently available. 
You can lead flat earthers to the curve but you can't make them think!