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Messages - Dionysios

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Flat Earth Community / Flatoberfest 2021
« on: September 08, 2021, 11:32:31 AM »
(Flat Earth Conference)

23 & 24 Octobre 2021
(Saturday & Sunday)

Magnolia Grand Event Centre
Spartanburg, SC

Flat Earth Community / Re: Flatoberfest
« on: September 18, 2020, 04:17:25 PM »
Flatoberfest Promotional Video

Flat Earth Community / Flatoberfest
« on: September 18, 2020, 04:14:08 PM »
Flatoberfest is on Saturday the 24th of Octobre 2020 in Greenville, SC. It’s a one day flat earth conference.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: FES Book Club
« on: June 13, 2020, 10:24:48 PM »
‘The Atom Spy Hoax’
By William A. Reuben

Written by a personal friend of the Rosenbergs who organised their international support network, this book does not quite deny that the Soviets had any spies whatsoever, but it comes closer to it than any book I know. It’s as die hard anti-McCarthyism as it gets.

Unfortunately even most of the American left surrenders to these two McCarthy style American writers John Earl Haynes and his colleague Klehr who both write about so-called Venona secrets as proof of Soviet spying viewing any evidence that the Soviet Embassy or USSR had communication whatsoever with any Americans likely constitutes spying or some kind of illegal activity. If I find a writer falls into that line of thinking, then I donate their book to the garbage can.

I actually discovered that Haynes and Klehr describe William Reuben as the equivalent of a holocaust denier. Of course, William Reuben represents the opppsite of that. The the fact that they hate him so much because he doesn’t surrender to their falsehood means that such slander was the best best they could do. There is an old saying that to be insulted by a heretic is a great honour.

I was very pleased to happen across this gem of a book which takes the received wisdom about alleged Soviet evil during the McCarthy era and successfully flushes it down the toilet.

A mid-1980’s interview of the author:

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Just Watched
« on: June 13, 2020, 09:46:36 PM »
‘Apartheid Did Not Die’
By John Pilger

Although admiring Nelson Mandela and especially what he stood for, this outspoken leftist activist actually criticises Mandela and the African National Congress as sellouts to the white racist power structure which actually continues in power in South Africa to this day.

This perspective brings to mind the largely phoney and half-hearted denazification of West Germany after World War 2.

Earth Not a Globe Workshop / Re: Religious View of the Enlightenment
« on: June 13, 2020, 09:21:22 PM »
In the long while since I’ve visited this forum I made two discoveries dealing with history which would probably be useful to this book and which I have mentioned in more detail in posts in the ‘Library Additions’ section.

One of these is a very positive factor dealing with the robust preservation of early Christian flat earthism in Russia for centuries after the west had caved in. I have posted there links to Slavonic manuscripts of the ‘Christian Topography’ and some accompanying history. I had long suspected this, but I never had much evidence of it until fairly recently.

Secondly, I discovered a couple of writers who described the apostasy of Western European flat earthism during the renaissance in greater detail and with more knowledge and evidence than I had previously known or suspected. These are two books by the late William Randles and also an article by Professor James J. Allegro.

W.G.L. Randles’s book ‘Unmaking of the Medieval Christian Cosmos’ in particular touches upon the anti-flat Earth role of the Protestant Reformation in league with renaissance humanists in smothering the old flat earthism which paved the way for the rise of heliocentrism during the “enlightenment”.

I’ll just observe that Randles personal views appear to resemble the science of medieval Catholicism a bit more than ancient stuff like Cosmas Indicopleustes - although the trends and science he attacks in this book are inimical to both.

Allegro’s article does a fine job of condensing the vast information Randles collected into a shorter clearer article jam packed with razor sharp facts that overturn the very wrong status quo approach to the renaissance and proves flat earthism was actually still alive in Western Europe in the early 1500’s.

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: June 13, 2020, 09:05:45 PM »
A brief article about the Russian preservation of the Byzantine flat earth tradition of Cosmas Indicopleustes and his book in Slavonic:

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: June 13, 2020, 09:03:03 PM »
A Slavonic copy of the ‘Christian Topography’ of Cosmas Indicopleustes (in pdf) produced by Russian Old Orthodox Christians in the early nineteenth century:

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: June 13, 2020, 09:00:15 PM »
‘The Christian Topography of Kosmas Indikopleustes’
Edited by Jeffrey C. Anderson

This book is a technical history of the manuscripts and influence of the book ‘Christian Topography’ by Cosmas Indicopleustes in the Christian East, particularly in the Byzantine Empire and in Russia.

Also, half of the book consists of high quality full colour illustrations from the “Florentine” manuscript of the Christian Topography - one of three extant Byzantine Greek manuscripts.

The book is marvellously summarised in this review which actually constitutes an outline history of flat earthism in the Christian East:

The history broadly falls into two categories: Byzantine and Russian. The Florentine manuscript is proved to actually be a Constantinopolitan manuscript made in that city about the year 1080. It was only later after the Crusades taken to the house of a wealthy Medici which is how it became the Florentine Codex.

Cosmas Indicopleustes originally wrote this flat earth book in Egypt in the 500’s, and this proves that flat earthism was still alive in the Byzantine Empire and copies of his book were still being made 500 years after he lived.
It is also mentioned that this Constantinopitan manuscript closely follows the Sinai manuscript.

The final chapter dealing with Russian flat earthism indicates that over 90 Slavonic manuscripts of the ‘Christian Topography’ survive, and these were made from the 1200’s to the 1800’s. This means that Russia is the champion at preserving flat earthism since the Crusades.

After Peter Romanov westernised Russia in the early 1700’s, Russian flat earthism persisted among Russian Old Believers who continued to produce Slavonic manuscripts of the ‘Christian Topography’ after the Romanovs and the Russian government abandoned flat earthism.

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: June 13, 2020, 08:42:12 PM »
‘Contra Antipodes’
By Zacaria Lilio

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: June 13, 2020, 08:39:53 PM »
In 1999 William Randles capped his career with:

‘The Unmaking of the Medieval Christian Cosmos: 1500-1760’

He devotes a chapter in this book to the union between Protestant Reformers and Renaissance humanists who both viciously attacked flat earthism and the old world culture and science of which it was a part.

Book Review:

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: June 13, 2020, 08:26:02 PM »
James Allegro’s article on flat earthism during the renaissance concludes with a useful bibliography, but it is primarily based upon the 50 year research career of William Randles, an American scholar based in France and Western Europe.

The highlights of Randles’s career are brought together and published in 2000 in: 

‘Geography, Cartography, and Nautical Science in the Renaissance’

The outstanding lead article describes four competing views of the earth still active in the 1400’s. One of these was the flat earth view which Randles calls Homeric. The other three were different schools of globe earth thought, the idea of Crates of four continents on a globe being one of them. This first essay concludes by describing the rise of the current theory of a terraqueous globe during the 1400’s concomitant with the rise of Portuguese colonialism.


Table of Contents:

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: June 13, 2020, 08:20:07 PM »
In view of the fact that some flat earthers (mostly evangelical Protestants) have ignorantly and quote wrongly claimed that the early Protestant Reformers were allegedly pro-flat earth, it should be mentioned that although they were spherical geocentrists, John Calvin’s own commentary on Genesis explicitly calls the earth “a little globe” which is very different from constituting the bottom half of the universe. Calvin’s pathetic form of geocentrism already theorised the earth as a small object in space and was therefore only a short step away from heliocentrism.

Luther likewise wrote that the heaven is a full globe - not a half sphere above which is exactly what early Christians thought according to Saint Jerome of Bethlehem’s commentary on Isaiah 40.

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: June 13, 2020, 08:10:56 PM »
‘The Bottom of the Universe: Flat Earth Science in the Age of Encounter’
By Professor James J. Allegro

This approximately 25-page article offers evidence that flat earthism was still alive and active in Western Europe in the 1400’s and did not decline until the decades after Magellan’s voyage in the 1500’s.

More specifically, flat earthism in Western Europe persisted longest in certain strata of the catholic countries of southwestern Europe, especially Spain and Italy. 

 Zacaria Lilio is the centrepiece of the essay. His flat earth book was published in Florence in 1496 to refute propaganda accompanying Columbus’s travels. Lilio was priest of Saint John Lateran Church in Rome and had a network of like minded individuals of which I’ll mention two.

Lilio was a personal friend of Girolomo Savonarola who was the foremost human rights activist in Europe at the time which is significant in that it makes a connection between partisans of Traditional science like flat earthers and ethics and human rights. Savonarola was the mayor of Florence when Lilio’s book was published there.

Savonarola was also a major critic of Pope Alexander III who was arguably the most corrupt pope of all time and the one who authorised the division of the far west between the Spanish and Portuguese Empires. Alexander III ultimately had Savonarola put to death.

Tostado was an influential and respected monk with the Inquistion in Spain who was Lilio’s mentor. It is perhaps necessary to mention that the Inquisition was a broad institution and that Tostado was an enemy of the notorious Torquemada family. Tostado and Lilio both opposed Spanish and Portuguese colonialism as unethical. Propaganda that celebrated Columbus has ridiculed Tostado for his opposition, but Tostado was a precursor to the catholic Bishop Bartolomeo de Las Casa, the famous sixteenth century advocate of indigenous peoples’ rights in Mexico and the Americas.

Zacaria Lilio’s book ‘Against Antipodes’ is available (in untranslated Latin) for free online.

Flat Earth Community / Re: FE Conference Denver
« on: December 09, 2018, 05:45:18 AM »
I could mention the idea to a few of the speakers and friends most likely to be sympathetic.  I’ll also mention if I come upon other avenues which is entirely possible.

Just a thought is I’d say that their opposition to the “flat earth society” does share some common ground with why you guys departed from Daniel Shenton’s website in the first place which their movement followed after 3 to 4 years. In other words, there is some common ground there which could be exploited in facilitating reconciliation. As far as the universal accelerator goes, I don’t think there is any getting around that because it’s a genuine disagreement.

As far as content of a future presentation to that community, I could suggest emphasis on what drives success knowing the audience. Of course, never to hide what one believes, but I think any significant emphasis upon the universal accelerator to that particular audience would take off like a lead balloon. That would scuttle it rather than facilitate it. I’d say a mutually respectful agree to disagree would have to reign for that aspect of it for the reconcilement to occur.

Among other things, a much more thorough (and long standing) familiarity with ‘Earth Not a Globe’ and other flat earth literature than an audience who came into it through YouTube videos of Mark Sargent, Eric Dubay, and ODD is what brought the whole idea to mind. I’m sure there is plenty you could educate them about.

Flat Earth Community / Re: FE Conference Denver
« on: December 06, 2018, 02:02:18 AM »
FYI, there will also be a California flat earth conference in Yorba Linda (L.A. area) in late February 2019 (around the corner).

Depending on the price of admission, I'll go to that

Judging by the lineup of speakers, the Yorba Linda, CA conference will be bible heavy compared to the big one in Denver which had a more even distribution.  Especially, Jeran Campanella from California (Bay area) and David Weiss of NYC (both agnostic) were in Denver but will be absent from this one. Just FYI.

Yorba Linda, CA FE Conference
Speaker Roster

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Additions to the Library
« on: December 06, 2018, 01:41:51 AM »
‘Joshua’s Long Day & the Dial of Ahaz’ (1890)
By Charles Totten

Advocating spherical geocentrism, it has a wealth of useful information. It contrasts very favourably when compared with Robert Sungenis’s work ‘Galileo Was Wrong’ because Totten does not believe all the pseudoscientific rubbish that Sungenis naively bought into when getting his degrees and which now plague his books.

Science & Alternative Science / Re: Antikythera mechanism
« on: December 05, 2018, 11:55:36 PM »
Once I understood what the antikythera mechanism is all about, I recalled this scene from the ‘Dark Crystal’:

Science & Alternative Science / Antikythera mechanism
« on: December 05, 2018, 11:53:58 PM »
This documentary supersedes both other docs and other speakers about this ancient astronomical device because the British curator, researcher, and instrument maker Michael Wright is the key speaker.

Flat Earth Community / Re: FE Conference Denver
« on: December 05, 2018, 11:44:45 PM »
Thank you, Dionysios. Perhaps I will go to next year's.

Next year’s major USA conference will be in Dallas. The Canadian FE 2019 conference will be in Toronto. FYI, there will also be a California flat earth conference in Yorba Linda (L.A. area) in late February 2019 (around the corner).

I’ve got an idea. Tom, I have to say if it becomes feasible even if it means the 2020 conference, then you should be a speaker - especially on Rowbotham and on anything else you saw fit. You’ve got the quality of information & Robbie Davidson has the platform. If that connection was made, then we all benefit.

As far as that goes, I wouldn’t mind speaking myself about Cosmas Indicopleustes. I plan to do a follow-up tape recorded lecture in Oregon focusing on Cosmas Indicopleustes in two parts:
1) history of ancient flat earth belief
2) the ancient Christian model characteristics and their continuance through Middle Ages and contrast with Rowbotham model

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