Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #580 on: July 19, 2022, 09:42:11 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62217263

The system works! Good guys with guns ftw!
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Online xasop

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #581 on: July 19, 2022, 10:43:40 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62217263

The system works! Good guys with guns ftw!
Quote
In a tweet on Monday morning, the National Rifle Association, a gun lobby, said: "We will say it again: The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
They're right. That's why the USA, where good guys have easy access to guns, has the lowest rate of gun violence in the world.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #582 on: July 19, 2022, 11:03:47 AM »
Heh. Yeah they never seem to stop and think "wait...what if neither had a gun. maybe that would be better?"
Because MUH SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS!!

And the other argument is "Well, bad guys would have guns anyway, they don't worry about the law because they're the bad guys!"
But that's a stupid argument, certainly over here you don't get lots of bad guys with guns.
I'll never understand the American mentality in this area, why would you want to live in a society where you feel the need to arm yourself?

But the genie is out of the bottle, there's too many guns in circulation. Which is why the police will continue to be twitchy, I would be too if I was aware that a lot of the people I have to deal with are probably armed.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #583 on: July 19, 2022, 01:40:48 PM »
Heh. Yeah they never seem to stop and think "wait...what if neither had a gun. maybe that would be better?"
Because MUH SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS!!

And the other argument is "Well, bad guys would have guns anyway, they don't worry about the law because they're the bad guys!"
But that's a stupid argument, certainly over here you don't get lots of bad guys with guns.
I'll never understand the American mentality in this area, why would you want to live in a society where you feel the need to arm yourself?

But the genie is out of the bottle, there's too many guns in circulation. Which is why the police will continue to be twitchy, I would be too if I was aware that a lot of the people I have to deal with are probably armed.

They aren't wrong.  America has more guns than people.  Just breaking into a rando's house in Texas has a good chance of getting a load of guns.  Which you then sell on the black market.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #584 on: July 19, 2022, 02:18:14 PM »

I'll never understand the American mentality in this area, why would you want to live in a society where you feel the need to arm yourself?

The purpose of the Second Amendment isn't only for personal self defense against individuals. The assumption of such is incorrect.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 02:30:29 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Iceman

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #585 on: July 19, 2022, 02:24:20 PM »
Yeah, it’s there to keep those tea-drinking red coats off your farm too!

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #586 on: July 19, 2022, 02:30:38 PM »
Yeah, it’s there to keep those tea-drinking red coats off your farm too!

don't be daft. it's also so southern states can secede and get their asses absolutely handed to them by the union.
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #587 on: July 19, 2022, 02:54:14 PM »
The purpose of the Second Amendment isn't only for personal self defense against individuals.
I know.
But the actual reason it's there is also bullshit in the modern context.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline Action80

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #588 on: July 20, 2022, 03:32:12 AM »
Another 'summary execution' on the streets.  This time, the victim was shot in the back of the head whilst pinned down on the ground by the officer who shot him.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/19/autopsy-confirms-patrick-lyoya-shot-head-police-officer-face-down

The video is easily found out there on YouTube, but it's not a pleasant watch.
Should've been shot and killed right away, not after a struggle.
It's so hard to have faith in humanity when they do shit like this.

"I hate the police so I'm gonna burn a Walgreen's!"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #589 on: July 20, 2022, 04:13:01 AM »
The purpose of the Second Amendment isn't only for personal self defense against individuals.
I know.
But the actual reason it's there is also bullshit in the modern context.

Why is that? Is it no longer possible for governments to be tyrannical?

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Offline stack

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #590 on: July 20, 2022, 04:50:18 AM »
The purpose of the Second Amendment isn't only for personal self defense against individuals.
I know.
But the actual reason it's there is also bullshit in the modern context.

Why is that? Is it no longer possible for governments to be tyrannical?

For one, the second amendment was created when we had muskets and cannons.
For two, I fail to see how well-regulated & armed militias fighting against the tyrannical Feds would ever come to a satisfactory conclusion for the rebels. The Feds have submarines, battleships/destroyers with conventional missiles and such. F-35's, F-18's, Warthogs, Apache helicopters, AC-130 Gunships, cruise missiles, TOW missiles, Tanks, etc. It's not the 1780's or even the 1860's anymore where there was an ability to actually achieve weapons parity with the Feds.

It seems improbable that well-regulated Militias armed to the gills with AR-15's & bumpstocks would stand a chance against all that and more.

We already have kind of a tyrannical Fed and no one can do a damn thing about it except protest and vote.

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #591 on: July 20, 2022, 08:20:07 AM »
Why is that? Is it no longer possible for governments to be tyrannical?
What stack said, basically. Weapons technology has moved on and you, the public, don't have the best toys.
As Jim Jefferies noted, you're bringing guns to a drone flight.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #592 on: July 20, 2022, 08:25:42 AM »
Incorrect.

If things were bad enough that people were rebelling against the Fed it is also likely that states would ideologically secede and the military bases in the opposing areas would align with the rebellion, as what happened during the civil war. Therefore the conservative rebellion would also have its own "F-15s", and also a civilian army of millions of people with guns. The liberal side would have F-15s and no millions of people with guns.

Also, the number of people with guns generally outnumbers F-15s and major military hardware hundreds or thousands to one.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 06:05:58 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #593 on: July 20, 2022, 08:33:20 AM »
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Online Rama Set

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #594 on: July 20, 2022, 10:09:22 AM »
Incorrect.
lol.

You just can’t see the future like Tom can, bro.

Seriously though, we have seen groups like the Taliban and Iraqi “insurgents” defend against the US Military basically indefinitely with about the same weapons as the average Texas school child.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #595 on: July 20, 2022, 11:46:57 AM »
Incorrect.
lol.

You just can’t see the future like Tom can, bro.

Seriously though, we have seen groups like the Taliban and Iraqi “insurgents” defend against the US Military basically indefinitely with about the same weapons as the average Texas school child.

Which lends credit to Tom's argument.
They got overthrown, fought for 20 years, and now control the country again.
They literally wore us down until we up and left and then just took the weak ass government without much if a fight.

If Trump gained power and kept it ala dictator, we could keep his army at bay as "Insurgents" until he died then take back the nation.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #596 on: July 20, 2022, 02:23:37 PM »
If the Fed was tyrannical enough to dispose of it is also possible that the entire military would rebel against them along with the people. Military members and military officers have sworn to uphold the Constitution, which includes the Bill of Rights, and take pride in their oath. They may not want to become the Fed's Gestapo to infringe on those rights. It is not a given that they would commit atrocities on demand.

Now, in this scenario the rebellion has all of the "F-15s", and all of the guns.

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #597 on: July 20, 2022, 03:11:35 PM »
If the Fed was tyrannical enough to dispose of it is also possible that the entire military would rebel against them along with the people. Military members and military officers have sworn to uphold the Constitution, which includes the Bill of Rights, and take pride in their oath. They may not want to become the Fed's Gestapo to infringe on those rights. It is not a given that they would commit atrocities on demand.

Now, in this scenario the rebellion has all of the "F-15s", and all of the guns.

If by "dispose of it" you mean the 2nd ammendment, then your hypothetical is nonsensical because no branch of government can unilaterally change the constitution, so who cares?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #598 on: July 20, 2022, 03:49:57 PM »
Is it no longer possible for governments to be tyrannical?

It is, and probably will be if the Repugnicans get control. 
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Offline crutonius

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Re: Are the American police out of control?
« Reply #599 on: July 20, 2022, 04:17:06 PM »
Incorrect.

If things were bad enough that people were rebelling against the Fed it is also likely that states would ideologically secede and the military bases in the opposing areas would align with the rebellion, as what happened during the civil war. Therefore the conservative rebellion would also have its own "F-15s", and also a civilian army of millions of people with guns. The liberal side would have F-15s and no millions of people with guns.

Also, the number of people with guns generally outnumbers F-15s and major military hardware thousands to one.

Question along the same lines; Isn't the fact that a citizen can't own an F-15 or a tactical nuke an infringement of our second amendment rights?

In order to counter the power of a hypothetical tyrannical government it's reasonable to allow for a comparable armed insurrection.  Insurgents in Afghanistan used a lot more than stuff you'll find at a hunting good store.  IEDs, RPGs, cold war era stinger missiles.  Why do you focus on small arms?  Shouldn't you be pushing for legalizing the sale of suicide vests at Walmart?