#### cikljamas

• 48
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2019, 07:19:32 PM »
Why would you have both the cw and ccw light beams retarded in the southern hemisphere/semiplane, while you maintain that only the ccw light beam would be retarded in the northern hemisphere/semiplane?

Now we came finally to the core of this problem, that is why i asked you to try to answer to my questions above in layman terms...

This is how i understand the core of MGPX :

In the northern hemisphere the beam which travels in CCW direction is retarded because southern tube is closer to the equator and aether flows faster along southern tube than along northern tube (i will clarify this even further if needed)

In the southern hemisphere the beam which travels in CW direction is retarded because the tube which is closer to us is again closer to the equator and aether again flows faster along that tube which is closer to us and parallel to the equator than along the tube which is farther from us and parallel to the equator, but this time our rectangle is 180 degrees rotated and that is why direction of the retarded beam is reversed...

However, on the flat earth aether would flow faster along the tube which is farther from us and that would cause second reversal (cancellation of the first reversal due our reorientation for 180 degrees) of the direction of the retarded beam...
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 07:34:11 PM by cikljamas »

#### sandokhan

• 996
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2019, 07:42:38 PM »
No.

You are under the wrong impression that only ONE of the beams will be retarded. Both of them will be retarded, whether the experiment takes place in the northern hemisphere/semiplane or in the southern hemisphere/semiplane.

Michelson spells out very clearly in both papers, that BOTH the cw and the ccw beams will be retarded.

https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/pram/087/05/0071

What Michelson meant was both beams will be retarded, the total lag being proportional to the AREA of the interferometer.

Here is an experiment carried out in the southern hemisphere/semiplane, the ring laser gyroscope was NOT turned 180 degrees as you have suggested:

http://signallake.com/innovation/andersonNov94.pdf (pages 978-979)

However, on the flat earth aether would flow faster along the tube which is farther from us

No. The ether drift is latitude dependent just as it would be on a spherical earth.

#### cikljamas

• 48
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2019, 08:14:50 PM »
ASSERTION NO 1 :
The system of interference-fringes produced by the superposition of the two pencils-one of which has traversed the circuit clockwise, and the other counterclockwise-would be shifted through seven-tenths of the distance between the fringes, in the direction corresponding to a retardation of the clockwise pencil, if the experiment were tried in the Northern hemisphere.

You see, we have to deal with a degree of retardation of the CW pencil (which is smaller in the northern hemisphere) wrt a degree of retardation of the CCW pencil (which is greater in the northern hemisphere)...

So, if both beams were to be retarded then how would we get the difference in the speed between two beams (both beams travel in both directions (one beam goes firstly right then left, another beam goes firstly left, then right), and both parallel tubes are of the same length), that is to say, what would cause fringe shifts if both beams were to be retarded?

To be perfectly correct we have to admit that both beams would be retarded, indeed, however :

CW beam would be less retarded, because going along southern tube (in the northern hemisphere) CW beam would go in the same direction in which aether flows...
CCW beam would be more retarded, because going along southern tube CCW beam would go in an opposite direction wrt the direction of aether's flow...
That is what makes the difference (which beams goes with or against aether's flow through the tube along which aether's speed is greater), if you think that you can point us towards some other cause (mechanics) of fringe shifts, let us know...
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 08:20:13 PM by cikljamas »

#### sandokhan

• 996
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #63 on: October 16, 2019, 08:18:56 PM »
In the southern hemisphere the beam which travels in CW direction is retarded because the tube which is closer to us is again closer to the equator and aether again flows faster along that tube which is closer to us and parallel to the equator than along the tube which is farther from us and parallel to the equator, but this time our rectangle is 180 degrees rotated and that is why direction of the retarded beam is reversed...

However, on the flat earth aether would flow faster along the tube which is farther from us and that would cause second reversal (cancellation of the first reversal due our reorientation for 180 degrees) of the direction of the retarded beam...

This is where you went wrong.

You are using the WRONG flat earth map, namely this one (the unipolar map):

Not very nice of you.

In the real FE map, the ether drift will be latitude dependent exactly as in the case of a spherical earth:

#### cikljamas

• 48
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2019, 08:23:46 PM »
In the real FE map, the ether drift will be latitude dependent exactly as in the case of a spherical earth:

Can you designate sun's path on/along this map?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 08:26:41 PM by cikljamas »

#### sandokhan

• 996
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2019, 08:29:17 PM »
So I was right, you "forgot" to tell everyone here that you were using the unipolar FE map.

Can you designate sun's path along this map?

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939818#msg1939818

#### cikljamas

• 48
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2019, 08:42:08 PM »
So I was right, you "forgot" to tell everyone here that you were using the unipolar FE map.

Can you designate sun's path along this map?

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939818#msg1939818

It rises from beyond Japan and illuminates at least half of the entire surface (not a spotlight sun at all), and sets somewhere beyond Antarctica...

Is this your designation/description of sun's path on that map?

If yes, then there is a very big hole in that description, since i would like to know where is the sun all the way (and at every moment) while traveling between sunrise (over Japan) and sunset (beyond Antarctica)...

#### sandokhan

• 996
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2019, 08:48:36 PM »
You are grasping at straws.

You tried this sort of argument before, it was debunked easily:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=70614.msg1916123#msg1916123

#### cikljamas

• 48
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2019, 09:06:05 PM »
You are grasping at straws.

You tried this sort of argument before, it was debunked easily:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=70614.msg1916123#msg1916123

Well, i didn't expect our conversation was going to end up (be so akin to...) like this :
Dr Robert Sungenis vs Allegedly Sane Flat Earther (hilarious excerpt) :

This would matter if Australia existed - flat earth for dummies :

FLAT EARTH PROBLEM (LISTEN IT VERY CAREFULLY) :

We were talking about MGPX, remember :

ASSERTION NO 1 :
The system of interference-fringes produced by the superposition of the two pencils-one of which has traversed the circuit clockwise, and the other counterclockwise-would be shifted through seven-tenths of the distance between the fringes, in the direction corresponding to a retardation of the clockwise pencil, if the experiment were tried in the Northern hemisphere.

You see, we have to deal with a degree of retardation of the CW pencil (which is smaller in the northern hemisphere) wrt a degree of retardation of the CCW pencil (which is greater in the northern hemisphere)...

So, if both beams were to be retarded then how would we get the difference in the speed between two beams (both beams travel in both directions (one beam goes firstly right then left, another beam goes firstly left, then right), and both parallel tubes are of the same length), that is to say, what would cause fringe shifts if both beams were to be retarded?

To be perfectly correct we have to admit that both beams would be retarded, indeed, however :

CW beam would be less retarded, because going along southern tube (in the northern hemisphere) CW beam would go in the same direction in which aether flows...
CCW beam would be more retarded, because going along southern tube CCW beam would go in an opposite direction wrt the direction of aether's flow...
That is what makes the difference (which beams goes with or against aether's flow through the tube along which aether's speed is greater), if you think that you can point us towards some other cause (mechanics) of fringe shifts, let us know...

#### sandokhan

• 996
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2019, 09:09:06 PM »
You are trolling the debate, since you have nothing else to say.

#### cikljamas

• 48
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2019, 09:36:30 PM »
You are trolling the debate, since you have nothing else to say.

I am trolling the debate for repeating the question and for reminding you what is/was the topic of our greatest concern here (since the very begining of this thread - after you joined the debate)? Soon after you joined the debate i mentioned (incidentally) the shape of the earth and your reply was something like : "We are talking about MGPX, not about the shape of the earth!"...
All of a sudden you want to talk about the shape of the earth, and in the same time i am the one who is trolling the debate...
Congratulations!!!

#### cikljamas

• 48
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #71 on: October 19, 2019, 01:55:52 PM »
Sun's path along the equator (at Equinoxes) on Sandokhan's flat earth map :

In this illustration we see one half of sun's path, and Sandokhan is going to designate for us the second half of sun's Equinox path across his flat earth map...After he manage to do that i will personally hand him over Nobel prize for physics, geology and common sense!!!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 01:59:07 PM by cikljamas »

#### sandokhan

• 996
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2019, 04:28:12 PM »
You are not paying attention.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1939818#msg1939818

Rotate the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn by 23.5 degrees, and we get the upper and lower bounds for the orbit of the Sun on a flat earth.

6106.4248/6 = 1017.73747 km, the distance alloted for each gate

The arclength for each gate (space alloted for the each of the six periods running from the winter solstice to the summer solstice, and from the summer solstice to the winter solstice) is 1017.737 km.

Those 180 windows are arranged over a distance of 6106.4 km, on each side. 30 windows for each gate (six gates in total).

Here is the description of the Sun's orbit at the equinox:

https://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/enoch.html#Enoch_71

#### Tom Bishop

• Zetetic Council Member
• 8902
• Flat Earth Believer
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2019, 04:52:56 PM »
How does that model explain the midnight sun in the north?

#### sandokhan

• 996
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2019, 06:12:00 PM »
Your pictures of a midnight sun proves that what you are seeing isn't the sun at all, but a starry reflection off of an uneven reflecting surface.

The Earth has a Moon which reflects the rays of the Sun: it is called Aurora.

There were several attempts over the years to present the dual sun theory, but the other FE could not properly develop the theory, nor could they prove it.

Other names for the second Moon/Sun: Aurvandil, Eos, Hausos, Thesan, Ushas.

Here is the proof, the Aurora Borealis cannot be explained by an external stream of plasma/ions that are injected into the Earth's magnetic field:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2009680#msg2009680

#### TheMatrix

• 14
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #75 on: October 20, 2019, 07:24:02 PM »
Quote
Here is the proof, the Aurora Borealis cannot be explained by an external stream of plasma/ions that are injected into the Earth's magnetic field:

Another page from your theaurorazone.com seems to suggest that they can...

Quote
CME’s usually emanate from the more active areas of the Sun’s surface and they throw a stream of electronically charged solar particles known as Solar Wind into the vastness of space. It is when these particles are directed towards the Earth that we can see the Northern or Southern Lights three or four nights later.

There are also numerous other websites which you can search around for yourself which gives the same account for the cause of the aurora.  Why then do you say that they cannot be explained by an external stream of charged particles. The colours come from ionised atoms of oxygen and nitrogen among others.

Quote
The Earth has a Moon which reflects the rays of the Sun: it is called Aurora.

No that's called Earthshine.  The Moon reflects white light if you hadn't noticed.  How would you get the colours we see in aurora if they were due to reflected light off the Moon?

Check for yourself.  Here is a typical link from our good old friend timeanddate.com

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/earthshine.html

« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 07:35:17 PM by TheMatrix »

#### sandokhan

• 996
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #76 on: October 20, 2019, 07:44:48 PM »
Why then do you say that they cannot be explained by an external stream of charged particles.

Did you read my previous message?

No that's called Earthshine.  The Moon reflects white light if you hadn't noticed.

You don't seem to understand what is going on.

A SECOND MOON/SUN which orbits the Arctic.

#### TheMatrix

• 14
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2019, 07:50:03 PM »
Quote
Here is the proof, the Aurora Borealis cannot be explained by an external stream of plasma/ions that are injected into the Earth's magnetic field:

Is this not something at you said?  If not then my apologies.

Where is this second Moon or Sun which orbits the Arctic then?  I for one have never heard of that idea?

#### sandokhan

• 996
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #78 on: October 20, 2019, 07:53:07 PM »
If you are not trolling this thread, then read the information provided which does prove indeed that the Aurora Borealis cannot be explained by an external stream of plasma/ions that are injected into the Earth's magnetic field:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2009680#msg2009680

#### TheMatrix

• 14
##### Re: I have questions
« Reply #79 on: October 20, 2019, 08:01:05 PM »
I'm certainly not trolling this thread. I am simply telling you what causes aurora. Just because I'm telling you something different to what you obviously believe, you accuse me of 'trolling'.  And don't bother sending any more links to theflatearthsociety because I'm not interested.

I've told you the facts, if you don't want to accept them then that's up to you.  End of.