5581

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: August 30, 2014, 11:27:22 AM »

I have a question about something you said.

You spoke of how Jews bought land from absentee Arab landlords and implied that everyone was OK with the sales.
If Muslims want all Jews dead, why did those Arabs (who were likely Muslim) not only approve the sale but not slaughter the infadels immediately?  Aren't they commanded by God to murder?

5582

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: August 27, 2014, 10:00:39 AM »

Why does this:

The fact is, persons related to modern Jews by ethnic and religious ties (commonly called Hebrews and Israelites) have resided in that territory of the Levant for 4500 years, at various times ruling over it as an independent state.

Give Jews the right to their own country?  And by whose authority? 

5583

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 27, 2014, 09:56:53 AM »

And if Jews can live so well under Islam, then why were 750,000 of them "invited" to leave Arab countries and migrate to Israel in 1948? Jews have lived about as well as Christians under Islam, paying the Jizya tax, converting to Islam, or being killed. The only difference is that at the same time in Europe their lot was even worse in many cases. Hardly a strong case for Islam. "We were assholes, were just were slightly less so than the Christians."

Have you considered the possibility that the Jews in general suck?  I mean, to have two (or more) different groups of people over thousands of years dislike Jews can't just be ignorant hate

5584

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 26, 2014, 12:49:29 PM »

Actually, no. But its easy enough to find. I read it quite awhile back, and didn't feel it necessary to keep a link to it. It shouldn't be hard to find, however.

Found it.
It doesn't say that all Jews must be killed, only that they are enemies for (in some cases) good reasons.  It does state that Jews can live peacefully under Islam so long as they don't try to claim dominance over Islam. (Paraphrasing)

Though they are going to dissolve Israel.  Also, Hama's has politically denounced the charter as irrelevant and not being followed.

5585

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 26, 2014, 11:20:36 AM »

The IRA did NOT have as its intention (as per its charter) the death of all Englishmen everywhere. Hamas DOES have, as per its charter, the intention of causing the death of all Jews everywhere. Ergo, any Arab who supports Hamas in any way forfeits their right to life. Simple.

Do you have a link to the charter?  I'd like to see unbiased evidence of this.

5586

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: August 25, 2014, 10:10:44 PM »

Most of us don't believe in hell, so the question is moot. & knowing my enemy was the point.

So they were your enemy BEFORE you learned about them.

How interesting...

5587

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: August 25, 2014, 07:56:01 PM »

Why did you study undercover at a Mosque for 2 years?

Adding on, if you went to Mosque, did the prayers, and followed the rituals doesn't that mean you're going to Hell for having another god before your Jewish god?

5588

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 25, 2014, 02:00:35 AM »

I wanna make a note:

Israel is in the middle of the middle east.  So any Arabs and Muslims who live there are in their correct place.  It's Jews who don't belong there.  You know, in the middle of the Muslim part of the world.

Also: Israel's primary export is cut jewels and weapons. 

if all Muslims were supposed to kill non-muslims then America, Europe, and Scandinavia would have a lot of dead Christians by Muslim hands.  Why not?

Also, Kiras Jole.  That's all Jews right?  They are all Jews so they must follow the Jewish teachings right?

Finally: please don't assume someone is a monster for enforcing their laws or reacting when their culture is threatened.  Ex: Jews should be illegal because they're greedy bastards.

5589

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: William Shakespeare the shameless propagandist.

« on: August 23, 2014, 02:08:32 PM »

LORD DAVE, don't be a schmuck. My degree in British History explains nothing more than it would if it were in say, Russian History, or Chinese History (in which I have a secondary emphasis). Grow up, and please cease to act like an ass. I realise, of course, that might be difficult for you, since ass-ness appears to be bred into your very being, but do try, for the sake of everyone else here on the board.

I'm not sure what you assumed my meaning was but rather than ask for clarification you went to insults.
How quaint. 

5590

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 23, 2014, 02:06:35 PM »

Israeli news reports that much. But even they are not sure if the school was warned or not. I am the first to admit, right now, it doesn't look as though it was.This was a pretty big fuck-up. And Jews don't use human shields.

But the news is untrustworthy.

So you're saying that building settlements in areas contested and often attacked is OK as is letting people stay in often attacked areas?
Jews in Israel must be stupid.

5591

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 23, 2014, 01:58:02 PM »

The UN school may or may not have been warned. I don't know, since the news is hardly trustworthy, and I wasn't there. I never said the IDF was perfect. If they can't move, then Hamas is to blame for civilian deaths, not Israel. The third point makes no sense, since Hamas is not in charge of the West Bank.

If the news is untrustworthy then how do you know Hama's uses human shields?  How do you know people were warned? 

Replace west bank with whatever area Hama's usually shells.  I can't remember which area it is.

5592

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 23, 2014, 01:47:45 PM »

No, you don't slaughter them. You warn them to get the hell out of the way, and then you give them sufficient time to move. Then you attack. Their failure to move then becomes their problem and not yours.

1. You assume they can move.  If I had a human shield, I would not allow them to stop being my human shield.  Kinda defeats the point.

2. So the UN school was warned ahead of time?

3. If Hama's did the same thing to the west bank, would Jews listen?

5593

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: William Shakespeare the shameless propagandist.

« on: August 23, 2014, 12:27:21 PM »

Well duh.
If you want to be popular you suck up to the king.  Or queen.

PS: your history masters is in British history?  That explains a lot.

5594

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 23, 2014, 01:30:13 AM »

I expect that many Jews probably knew that their chances against the might of Rome were less than excellent. As far the two Rabbis, its true. They can't both be right. They could of course, both be wrong, in theory. The Rabbi I was reading about described evidences that a tribe of Levites left Egypt at the time of the Exodus.

Good, now that we've established you have no evidence of your original claim on that subject, we can move on.

Well, if you think that we can't expect better out of people today than we could in 66 CE, then you ought not criticise Israel for its handling of Hamas. In fact, they are doing a remarkable job of trying to preserve civilian life, given that they throw leaflets, make phone calls, issue text messages, and roof knock to get people to leave before taking out buildings. It is Hamas that orders civilians to stay in buildings in spite of these warnings.

Not really.  In a world of instant news, not being seen as a butcher is very important.  I'm sure quite a few kings did the same, or at least kept it quiet by killing everyone.

Please note that I am NOT saying that Israel is perfect. I am sure that mistakes are made. It is a war, and people are killed. That is unfortunate. I am sure some civilian sites have mistakenly been hit. This is sad, but is often unavoidable, especially when Hamas uses such places as sites for weapons storage, and as places to maintain rocket launchers from which they actually attack Israel.  Using civilians as human shields makes them legitimate targets.

A civilized country would hold their fire when presented with human shields.  Don't you agree?  Isn't that the point of a human shield?

Given that America in the 18th Century actually had more human rights than any nation in history, I would say your commentary is  silly, verging on the outright stupid. Although the goal, of course, is to widen suffrage, rather than restrict it, and this has been done both in America, Britain, and in other countries, if you look at the times, America was doing quite well. No nation in the world allowed women or non-whites to vote. In fact, except for Britain, no nation allowed anyone to vote, per se. France did to a certain degree, I suppose, but they kept moving from Republic to Empire to Kingdom to Republic again, so...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_women%27s_suffrage#18th_century

Yeah no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#18th_and_19th_centuries

For a history major, Wikipedia seems to know more than you.

5595

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 22, 2014, 10:55:53 PM »

As regards the truth of the Exodus, I don't HAVE a citation with me. Nor do I have time to find one now, since that isn't the topic of discussion, though I do know that I was reading about it just last week. I never claimed here to have said citation. Incidentally, the author of what I was reading was a Rabbi, and quoted Rabbi Waxman, and challenged what he had to say on the subject.

Two Rabbis can't be right.  One must be wrong.  And if we conclude that a Rabbi can be wrong, then we must also conclude that ANY Rabbi can be wrong.
Of course, he one Rabbi challenged what another said, it can't be as solidly factual as you seem to imply.

We expect better out of people today than we did in 66 CE.

   Why would you say that?  We still have wars.  We still have fights.  We still have murders.  We still have thefts.  We still have liars.  We still have leaders who oppress their people.  We still have tyrants.  What, exactly, do we have that's so different than the 7th century and why do we expect better?  Especially considering that we had good people back then too.

So, Arabs don't live in the 7th Century because they have computers and women can vote? First off, I'd like to know how much the vote means in ANY Arab society. Since none of the nations there are rated democratic or even partially so except Israel, who cares if women can vote or not? Your point?

About as much as a vote means in 18th century America.  You know, where only land owning white men can vote and have any power?

And no, I doubt they were saying similar things in 69 CE. Given that revolts are usually preceded by internal disturbances and great amounts of political intrigue, it is doubtful that all was peaceful. They were probably being unusually oppressed by Rome, and were likely heartily sick of it.

...
You... you don't even read your own quotes?
I was pointing out that the Jews most likely felt that Israel was not going to be defeated by Rome and that they would last forever. 

5596

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 22, 2014, 07:33:27 PM »

You are asking for an impossible task. Israel last existed in 70 CE. Last I checked, there were no terrorists around them in 70 CE.

False.  Romans would be considered terrorists against the Jews but also JEWS!
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/revolt.html

The great Revolt of 66 CE.  Lots of radical Jews that just slaughtered each other.  If I had to guess, I'd say they were acting no different than the ISIS, except the ISIS isn't burning food stocks.

As for citations re: the truth of the Exodus, I was just reading about it recently, but I don't have said source with me.

http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/virtualtalmud/2007/03/truth-of-exodus.html
The Truth of the Exodus by Rabbi Joshua Waxman
It seems your citation contradicts your statement.

The difference between Jews and the Ten Plagues of Egypt and Muslims being told to STFU until being called upon is that we are actually members of the civilized world. They live, by choice I might add, in the Seventh Century, and therefore, should have no say in how the world conducts itself.

Considering that computers, telephones, and electricity didn't exist int eh 7th century, I'm finding it difficult to see why you say this.  Or do you feel that the laws of the land are from the 7th century?  In which case I'd point to the arab nations with women being allowed to vote, the laws regarding advanced financial transactions, and the DIFC in the UAE.  Not to mention OPEC.

Argue with me all you want. I don't much care what you have to say. The fact is, guess what? Israel is here to stay. You can bitch about it all you like, but its not going anywhere. WELCOME TO REAL LIFE!!!

I'm sure they said the same thing in 69CE.

5597

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 22, 2014, 10:36:08 AM »

There was a news story yesterday about a couple of Brits who'd travelled to Syria to join ISIS. Before they left they'd bought Islam for Dummies and the Quran for Dummies. It turns out that ISIS recruits might not necessarily be the hardline fundamentalists we assume they are.

Doesn't mean anything.  An army needs soldiers though did the story say if they succeeded?

5598

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 22, 2014, 03:00:28 AM »

If you suggest that the creation of one tiny state of Jews in the middle of 22 Arab states is enough to radicalise the entire Muslim world, then I am right, these people are insane, and should not be allowed to mix with normal humans.

Are you suggesting that taking land from other people won't piss them off?  That constantly pressing your influence won't anger them?
Also, the entire middle east isn't radicalized, just small groups.  What you SHOULD be asking is this: Why did Israel's creation start this?  What changed?  Is it that they can't handle "civilization" (like all those countries bordering the edge) or could it be that Israel isn't a good neighbor?  Considering history, I'd be willing to bet the latter.  But let's test that theory.  Let's look at the Middle East history when Israel stopped existing until it started to exist again and plot the radical groups and their actions.  Since you're a history major, please give me a summary as you are the best for this task.

And yes, you are absolutely right. The world has had to deal with Muslims over and over and over again. The Crusades, 1492, now, and the future. You can't destroy them. I understand that. You can doubt my degree all you want. I am not stupid enough to give you my name and place of graduation, as I don't choose to be identifiable on the 'Net.

Since you CAN'T destroy them, all you can do is subdue them, and KEEP subduing them.They must be reminded, every hundred years or so, that they are to be obedient, and silent. In other words, they are to STFU and stay the f--k out of the way except when called upon. If the situation were reversed, that is EXACTLY what they would do to us, according to their own Qur'an which requires that Jews and Christians become Muslims, pay a special tax to remain Jews or Christians, or die by the sword. At least I am not imposing conversion or taxes or death on them. I am merely proposing that they stay in their own part of the world where they can be savages all they want to each other.

Hold on a second... are you, the History Major, telling me (again) that oppressing a group of people doesn't have bad results?  My God... you're not a Jew.  Your not a Jew at all.  Seriously, how could you possibly forget the 10 plagues of Egypt?  You are an insult to honest Jews. 

As for the Egyptians, and the Hebrew sojourn there, there is proof that there was an Exodus of Hebrews from Egypt, albeit not of 2 million persons. There were indeed Hebrew slaves in Egypt that left, along with non-Hebrews, and Canaan was settled by Hebrews in a combination of peaceful settlement and military action. This is proven and can be read about in history books. You can argue about that all you wish, but don't bother to do it with me. History is history, in spite of your trying to make it otherwise.

Citation needed.

5599

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 22, 2014, 01:52:43 AM »

My statement was that Israel's creation in the 1940s is what caused such resentment against the west and what allows such radical groups to rise.

One does not create a bonfire without a lot of burnable material.  The ISIS is a bonfire of hate and the west has given them plenty of fuel.  Israel was the start.

As far as ISIS goes, the fundamental fact is that if they are permitted to go any further than they have gone, they will change the Middle East fundamentally. They MUST be destroyed. Every single member of ISIS, and every follower thereof must be killed, along with Boko Haram, and any other group that has similar ideals. Their continued existence on Earth is a threat to the continued existence of the human race. Even assuming we allow that Islam has a moderate wing (which I don't believe, but for the sake of argument), groups such as this MUST be destroyed completely.

This is why I don't take your claim of having a major in history seriously.  Completely destroying a group is very hard.  Nearly impossible really.  Sure you can smash a country and wipe out a race, but an idea, a belief, is much harder to kill.

Jewish history is full of times when being Jewish was forbidden or punished.  The Egyptians, according to your own holy book (not really scholars) tried to cull jews but failed.  The Romans tried to ban, tax, and exile them.  The Nazi's tried to wipe them out.  They all failed.
Druids: Romans tried to wipe them out.  Didn't work.
Catholics vs Protestants: Nope.
Hell, America has still failed to wipe out all the Indians.

And what happened?  The group usually got more power.  Especially the Jews and Protestants. 

Oh and let's not forget the Crusades tried wiping out or converting Muslims.  Didn't work out so well either.


So yeah, let's try to wipe out ISIS.  We'll just have them back in a generation, stronger than ever.  American still can't get rid of the damn confederates and it's been over 100 years!


I personally think the US should cut off all contact with Israel.  No trade, no supplies, no military support, nothing.  I can guarantee you, Israel would not survive a decade(I am aware of their defense industry but you can't make a gun without metal and you can't fly a jet without fuel) and within 50 years of no interference from the West(and a massive drop in oil needs), peace in the Middle East would be had.

5600

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: August 21, 2014, 04:52:14 PM »

Its funny: we didn't have these problems before 1945.

Just saying...