#### hawke84

• 5
##### A working map of the Flat Earth
« on: February 17, 2021, 12:59:56 PM »
Hey,

just a quick intro: it is my position we live on a globe, in a solar system, in a galaxy and that we are revolving around the sun.
I am not here to convince anyone, or to mock anyone, I am just looking for an answer to a question I cannot obtain talking to other FE-ers.

Could someone provide me with a working map of the world we live in?
I'm an experienced traveller, been around the world a few times and I'd like to see how the locations of cities and countries are positioned on that map.

Thank you

#### MetaTron

• 138
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2021, 04:34:02 PM »
Hi Hawk,

Here's a good map I think.  Its 4000 mikes between Alaska and New York and central Eurasia is the same as documented.  More details are discussed here:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=17652.0
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 04:37:04 PM by MetaTron »
Is the Earth flat and sky is round?  Or is the Earth round and the sky flat?

#### stack

• 2015
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2021, 09:38:53 PM »
Hi Hawk,

Here's a good map I think.  Its 4000 mikes between Alaska and New York and central Eurasia is the same as documented.  More details are discussed here:

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=17652.0

On your map, how far is it from Santiago, Chile to Cape Town, South Africa?

#### MetaTron

• 138
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2021, 01:47:34 AM »
It should be 1/2 the normal distance about 2,500 miles
Is the Earth flat and sky is round?  Or is the Earth round and the sky flat?

#### stack

• 2015
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2021, 02:58:31 AM »
It should be 1/2 the normal distance about 2,500 miles

So doesn't that call into question the accuracy of your map?

#### MetaTron

• 138
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2021, 03:26:43 AM »
Maybe Hawk can chime in?  Do you have any experience traveling in the southern hemisphere?

Is the Earth flat and sky is round?  Or is the Earth round and the sky flat?

#### RazaTD

• 58
• A rational man
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2021, 04:15:49 AM »
Hey,

just a quick intro: it is my position we live on a globe, in a solar system, in a galaxy and that we are revolving around the sun.
I am not here to convince anyone, or to mock anyone, I am just looking for an answer to a question I cannot obtain talking to other FE-ers.

Could someone provide me with a working map of the world we live in?
I'm an experienced traveller, been around the world a few times and I'd like to see how the locations of cities and countries are positioned on that map.

Thank you

Logically speaking, because all Flat Earth maps are 2D projections of the true 3D Globe Earth map, there is always some sort of distortion with size, shape, and distances on the maps.

The most popular map is an azimuthal equidistant projection centered on the North Pole. When you compare it with Earth, you can notice how heavily distorted it really is. It also has a lot of other issues for example a missing South Pole location (It has a ring instead which is ridiculous).
A rational man

#### stack

• 2015
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2021, 05:59:08 AM »
Maybe Hawk can chime in?  Do you have any experience traveling in the southern hemisphere?

I have. And know many others who have as well. But that's really not the point. The point is that southern hemisphere distances are just as well known as northern hemisphere distances. And if your map has distances anywhere on it that are off by thousands of miles then that drastically takes away the accuracy of said map - Which means it doesn't reflect known reality as observed by millions. A pilot, for instance, that uses your map would end up either lost or dead because they ran out of fuel and crashed. Hyperbole, but maybe you get the point.

Flipping the common AE North Pole centered map/model so that it's South Pole centered is just moving the deck chairs around, so to speak. It doesn't solve anything.  I'm curious to know what problem you think it solves when you know the distances in some areas of it are wildly inaccurate and unrealistic.

#### hawke84

• 5
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2021, 08:33:13 AM »
Hey MetaTron. Thanks for sharing.

I have travelled the Southern Hemisphere. I lived in Australia for over a year. I was more curious about an accurate map, not a hand-made sketch, because I can't make out any cities or countries on this one. Did the Flat Earth community not produce a more detailed version of their agreed-upon map ?

I've lived in Australia, Japan, China, most European countries and Canada. I'm trying to see how the FE community has positioned these countries and cities on the map and correlate that with my experience of travelling (by either train or airplane) between them. I cannot really do that with the sketch you provided unfortunately.

#### Longtitube

• 189
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2021, 10:51:24 AM »
... Did the Flat Earth community not produce a more detailed version of their agreed-upon map ?

There is the nub, there is no agreed-upon map, no agreement on the size or shape of the earth in FE circles. Make of it what you will, but that’s how it is.
Once again - you assume that the centre of the video is the centre of the camera's frame. We know that this isn't the case.

#### hawke84

• 5
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2021, 02:09:00 PM »
So you're telling me of all the hundreds of thousands of FE believers in the world today, none of them is able to draw up a detailed map ?

#### Pete Svarrior

• e
• Planar Moderator
• 12872
• (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2021, 02:12:18 PM »
So you're telling me of all the hundreds of thousands of FE believers in the world today, none of them is able to draw up a detailed map ?
Longitube is rather passionate about telling people that he thinks the Earth is round. Personally, I wouldn't put much stock in anything he says about FET. (And he knows better than to make these sort of comments here.)

The reality is that there are multiple competing models, some with a long history (and arguably mainstream), some rather new and original. You can find some of them at https://wiki.tfes.org/Flat_Earth_Maps

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

#### MetaTron

• 138
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2021, 03:40:03 PM »

Hi Hawke and Stack,

Keep in mind if you look closely at this map, Australia, New Zealand, and South America have all gained additional land mass to correct for the shrinking of the southern hemisphere.  I did this by increasing the area between Longitude lines 30w and 60w, 120e and 150e.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 04:09:01 PM by MetaTron »
Is the Earth flat and sky is round?  Or is the Earth round and the sky flat?

#### stack

• 2015
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2021, 04:57:29 PM »

Hi Hawke and Stack,

Keep in mind if you look closely at this map, Australia, New Zealand, and South America have all gained additional land mass to correct for the shrinking of the southern hemisphere.  I did this by increasing the area between Longitude lines 30w and 60w, 120e and 150e.

In short, we're talking about a "working" map. If you're moving longitude lines around and changing distances from what they are in reality, how might you consider your map to be "working"?

For instance, even though a Mercator projection map is distorted (all projections are to some degree), it can still be used for navigation. No one can use your map for navigation as they would die trying.

Side note, you may be interested in this. Some Princeton Astrophycisists (3 days ago) just came out with a projection that is purportedly the least distorted projection to date. They basically took the globe, sliced it in two and flattened it. Then did a whole bunch to it to remove as much distortion and keep it accurate as possible. You take each circle and essentially paste then back to back and voila, a flat globe. Check it out:

The Most Accurate Flat Map of Earth Yet

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-most-accurate-flat-map-of-earth-yet/

#### Pete Svarrior

• e
• Planar Moderator
• 12872
• (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2021, 05:14:16 PM »
If you're moving longitude lines around and changing distances from what they are in reality
If you presume RET from the onset, then there is no point in you debating FET vs RET. In that case, you should probably leave the discussion to those who are interested.

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

#### Iceman

• 861
• where there's smoke there's wires
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2021, 05:21:18 PM »
I see where you're coming from there, but in a thread titled 'a working map...' is it not fair to point out major differences between Tron's provided map compared to the mainstream maps.

Stack's point doesn't so much pre-assume RET as compare the provided map to the status quo (which, obviously is RE-based maps).

Probing for explanations of advantages/disadvantages of the map provided by Tron compared to mainstream seems like a fair extension of the discussion here, no?

#### SteelyBob

• 339
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2021, 06:50:24 PM »
If you're moving longitude lines around and changing distances from what they are in reality
If you presume RET from the onset, then there is no point in you debating FET vs RET. In that case, you should probably leave the discussion to those who are interested.

But distances between known points, particularly those over land, don't require a presumption of a particular earth shape as they are verified by countless road journeys that match predictions perfectly. If it wasn't, for example, about 4800km by road from Brisbane to Perth, then we would know about it because lots of people would be pointing out that their odometers bore no resemblance to the distance predicted by google, or waze, or their old-fashioned road atlas. Mainland USA, for example, is roughly the same width at its widest point, just south of the border with Canada, as Australia is - if those two countries on your FE maps aren't the same width, roughly, then something is clearly amiss, and it doesn't require any prior belief about the shape of the earth for that to be true.

Are we seriously suggesting that distances along major roads between major cities are wrong?

#### Tom Bishop

• Zetetic Council Member
• 8483
• Flat Earth Believer
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2021, 06:55:17 PM »
There are anomalous winds in the southern hemisphere - https://wiki.tfes.org/Issues_in_Flight_Analysis

If you are going to try to use travel times to show evidence for a particular model, you need to do better than provide information from an area known to be anomalous.

#### Iceman

• 861
• where there's smoke there's wires
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2021, 07:30:56 PM »
There are anomalous winds in the southern hemisphere - https://wiki.tfes.org/Issues_in_Flight_Analysis

If you are going to try to use travel times to show evidence for a particular model, you need to do better than provide information from an area known to be anomalous.

Just because they are different from those observed in the north, doesnt make the southern winds "anomalous".

The sources provided on the wiki explain the reasons for the difference between hemispheres quite plainly.

It's worth noting here that the antarctic survey quoted in the wiki is a credible source of information. I would encourage readers to dive into the papers, data, and researchers who can provide empirical evidence on the characteristics of Antarctica beyond the 'ice wall'.

#### SteelyBob

• 339
##### Re: A working map of the Flat Earth
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2021, 07:58:12 PM »
There are anomalous winds in the southern hemisphere - https://wiki.tfes.org/Issues_in_Flight_Analysis

If you are going to try to use travel times to show evidence for a particular model, you need to do better than provide information from an area known to be anomalous.

I used road journeys in my example Tom. The wind doesn't affect them. And I didn't say 'times', I said 'distances'. As in: 'what people measure using their car odometers', for example.