101

Flat Earth Investigations / NASA conspiracy questions

« on: December 20, 2021, 10:17:33 PM »

The wiki states that there is NASA is not an earth shape conspiracy and that they think the earth is round but understand space travel is impossible. The conspiracy is characterized as "small".

NASA has 4 satellites scheduled to launch in 2022. According to the faq, NASA thinks the earth is round. Do they think these will be orbiting the earth? Will they know where they are? Where will they actually be? WIll they be sending back pictures and data? Perhaps the data will be faked?

gps satellites work by calculating the distance to the satellite, the location of these satellites is published to your cell phone.

Does NASA know where the satellites are? If they do, then they know the shape of the earth. If not, how is this successful in any way? How can a small conspiracy fake the data and location? How can NASA have satellites and not know the shape of the earth? How can they fake this with a "small" conspiracy?

Hubble, DirecTV, weather satellites, gps, etc etc etc? How is all this not part of the conspiracy, and how is that conspiracy "small".

102

Flat Earth Projects / Opportunity for Texas FEs

« on: December 20, 2021, 09:41:32 PM »

A new law in Texas (HB 3979) requires educators to present “diverse and contending perspectives” on topics that are debated or controversial. Legally, TX has to let FEs present their case in science class. TX FEs should go to their school boards and demand they "teach the controversy". Perhaps print out hard copy of the faq and demand they use it as a textbook. Or maybe Rowbotham? After all, per the faq, there are 10s of millions of FE believers.

Plus, thousands of TX science teachers will learn the true shape of the earth. Perhaps their students can learn critical thinking skills by working out these controversies/unknown equations.

I would love to see TX school board meetings discussing the presentation of FET in TX schools. I think, by law, they have to.

Can't wait to see the final exam.

I may get in trouble, complete nonsense? Seems to me if FE is true, this is not nonsense at all, but a very good idea.

103

Flat Earth Theory / Re: What is on the other side?

« on: December 20, 2021, 09:12:43 PM »

When MetaTron says the satellite is not high enough to see the entire earth, is that due to not being able to see over the horizon?

Would love to hear how satellites work on FE. Geostationary satellites have to be stationary, directly over the equator. What holds them up?

Two questions for MetaTron: Does RET explain this? Does FET have an explanation?

104

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Shape of the lit area on the FE map vs EA

« on: December 20, 2021, 08:59:04 PM »

Why even discuss? That a 2 inch half sphere of glass over a flat earth map with a flashlight shining on it can produce a light pattern on said FE map proves nothing. The atmosphere of the earth is air, and this is glass. Very different optical and physical properties.

105

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Where is Google Maps wrong?

« on: December 20, 2021, 08:21:27 PM »

And many have made the drive across the US at about 3000 miles. Yet every map in the TFES faq shows Australia as significantly wider then US. GPS, airplane and ship navigation, geodetic survey, Eratosthenes, etc, all consistent with RE.

One FE claimed that NASA has secret odometer mods built into your car. Another said that the distances are all correct over land, but on waterm no one can know because zetetic, and you can't crawl across the ocean with a ruler, so you can never know the distance. He explained time/speed distance calculations matching RE by "anomalous winds aloft" Apparently these winds only occur over oceans and are stronger proportionate to their distance from the north pole.

I wonder why every reply here is RE. To have a discussion of these things any more, an RE has to describe the FExplanation. I think they have learned that "no answer" can't be rebutted or ridiculed.

106

Flat Earth Theory / Re: geostationary satellites

« on: December 20, 2021, 08:06:29 PM »

When I first looked at FE web sites/youtube in 2015, there were a lot of explanations involving fascinating technology. One of them was gps satellites held up by giant invisible balloons. Some FE would propose things like "stratalites", NASA ice wall patrol, etc, and then REs would immediately post many reasons why the explanation failed. The FE explanation was often hilarious, and then REs would enjoy showing off their knowledge and logic.

107

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Shape of the lit area on the FE map vs EA

« on: December 17, 2021, 01:27:32 AM »

Are we talking glass dome the size of atmosphere with varying density? Then why care about the answer, the atmosphere is air. Air pressure variations are well known to weathermen, aeronautical engineers, etc. and the effect on optics is well known. Would love to hear how air pressure variations cause the whole dome to look dark for one person while light blue to another.

I'll make you a deal, I will answer any questions about density variation or whatever if you answer my questions:

How do persons on either side of sunset look at the dome between them and one sees dark with stars while the other sees light blue?

How can someone can look at the dome through the daylight part and see dark and stars on the side of the dome?

The glass globe video does not explain, it illustrates my problem. Someone looking up from the bottom of that glass globe is going to see part of it light and part dark. It does not match my experience of day and night sky.

108

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Shape of the lit area on the FE map vs EA

« on: December 16, 2021, 10:16:00 PM »

The density and material of observers on the surface and up to the dome is virtually the same when two people a few hundred miles apart look up at the same spot on the dome between them at sunset. Certainly no difference that can account for the fact that one sees light blue sky while the other sees dark sky and stars. If they both look west, one sees light blue, while the other sees dark sky and stars, right through the lighted area, the same place on the dome that the other sees light blue, looking at almost the same angle and almost the same distance.

Also does not explain how the FE location of the sun on the dome at night is seen as stars, even as it produces enough light to illuminate half the earth. Yet the relatively dim stars and dark sky go right through.

I really want to understand this, but can't seem to get an explanation. "We can't explain it, but the earth is flat, so there must be some unknown force with unknown equations", can some FE add details to this? Diagram? Experiments? Equations? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

109

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Shape of the lit area on the FE map vs EA

« on: December 16, 2021, 08:57:52 PM »

The glass in the video does not illustrate what people on the surface of the earth experience. The video clearly shows part of the dome lit up, and the rest dark. In reality, some see the entire dome dark with stars, while others, sometimes a few hundred miles away, sees light blue over the entire dome.

Let's see a demo from the surface of the earth that shows how some can see the entire dome as light blue while others see it dark at the same time.

Explain how someone can look up in the sky at night, where the sun is shining bright for some, and see dark sky with stars at exactly the same place. Explain how someone can look at the sky just after sunset to the west and see dark sky and stars, while someone a few hundred miles west can look at the exact same spot on the dome between them and see light blue.

RET explains this consistent with known physics. FET has no explanation.

110

Flat Earth Theory / geostationary satellites

« on: December 16, 2021, 01:47:28 AM »

On RE, they are stationary in particular spot directly over the equator. They get shot up at the exact speed and direction to be in orbit at that spot. This is consistent with RET math and physics. The web site:

https://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/dishPointer.jsp

tells you where to aim the dish, thus giving you a pointer to the satellite. Point wrong, no tv signal. So we have multiple pointers at a satellite from different places, thus the point where the aiming lines cross gives the location of the satellite.

Where are these satellites on FE? if they are at the equator, how do they stay up? Will the lines intersect on FE? IF you take the elevation from San Diego, San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle, will the lines meet at the same point?

I submit that the lines will not cross with FE geometry, and this makes no sense. I wonder how FE explains geostationary satellites.

111

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Shape of the lit area on the FE map vs EA

« on: December 15, 2021, 09:45:01 PM »

The video with the flashlight over the glass hemisphere does show that you can light up the part of the map underneath similar to the shape of the lit area on FE. Declare victory and go home, or ....

But what would someone on the ground see in this demo? Looks to me like they would see half the dome lit up. But they see stars exactly where the dome is lit up, at the same time. Let's see a video demonstrating how that works. Show us a video with someone in the dark area seeing the stars in the same area of the dome that is lit up. .

If your answer is: "A physical system that does this is possible.", then you haven't made much of a claim, only that it is possible, which can never be disproven and can be said about anything. You don't even need the video. Just say: "This could be, and you can't prove it's not."

What would be impressive is if you had observations, equations, dimensions, materials, experiments, let's see the physics defined and demonstrated. A flashlight, glass disk, and map do not suffice for anything. Show me how 2 people a thousand miles apart see such a different dome, one lit up light blue, the other dark and full of stars.

112

Flat Earth Community / Re: A 'hero' of the Flat Earth has apparantly passed

« on: December 14, 2021, 10:49:26 PM »

I have numerous friends relatives, neighbors, and co-workers who are vaccinated. None have had any bad effects from it except for a day of feeling like very mild flu.

My wife has a friend in Missouri whose family has had it. My daughter's roomate's family in Kansas has all had it, and her mother is a long hauler, probably never be the same.

Zetetic science says my personal observations are legit and stuff people tell me is not. By that measure, the vaccines are good and anti-vax is wrong.

Side note: I think there should be a Darwin Award special group category for those die from covid after refusing vaccine.

113

Flat Earth Community / Re: The borders of the conspiracy

« on: December 14, 2021, 10:41:57 PM »

Gps works by having multiple super accurate atomic clocks on the satellite and broadcasting the satellite id and time constantly. Your cell phone has a clock, not as good but sufficiant, and ewhen the phone gets a signal from the satellite, it figures out the time, and therefor the distance. this means you are on a sphere x distance from the first satellite. A second satellite gives a different sphere, and the intersection is a circle. A third satellite gives another sphere, the intersection is now two points. A fourth satellite narrows it down to one point.

There is a network of ground stations tracking these satellites, their accurate position is critical. There are web pages showing where these satellites are now. The positions are updated in all phones. I wonder, on FE, are the people running the satellites tracking stupid or evil?

YOU !!! can buy a USB gps receiver and download C++ source code from GITHUB to run a gps app in your pc. With an IDE, you can look at the source code, the algorithms, what location you are using for satellite, and the raw data from the satellite. Many have done this, both people working at companies like Garmin and hobbiest/student. You can look at where the satellite is said to be, and the distance to that satellite and the raw data it sent.

So we know that the calculation is based on the location of orbiting satellites, and it works. A signal arrives at your phone that correctly uses the published position of the satellite and the timestamp in the signal to figure out where you are, 24/7, worldwide. Explaining this without impossible conspiracy or impossible technology would be hard. I am skeptical that is is possible.

114

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Shape of the lit area on the FE map vs EA

« on: December 14, 2021, 09:40:19 PM »

Another discrepancy with reality is the horizontal angle of the sun. If you diagram where the sun appears to be from San Diego and Perth, you will get very different vectors that do not point to the sun nor to any intersection point inside the edge of FE. The angle of error is zero only directly north and south. From Perth, for instance, the sun looks like it is south of New Zealand on this map. And the "bending" is in opposite directions, increasing as you go south until you get to the corner of the daylight area, then decreases until it is zero directly south.

EA might explain the vertical component (not!), but the horizontal component remains a mystery, to quote the EA page "unknown forces with unknown equations".

115

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Shape of the lit area on the FE map vs EA

« on: December 14, 2021, 06:37:25 AM »

At equinox, the sun lights half the earth, from longitude to ((longitude +180) mod 360). On the FE map, this turns into simply bisecting the earth, one side is dark, the other is daylight. I have made a graphic of the horizontal component of bending light that I should probably put in it's own thread. Numerous questions arise.

Is the EA wiki page still in effect? I could not find it in the index, just through search.

I once calculated the size of an FE sun 3,500 mi away as 35 miles across. One can measure the energy per square foot, as is well known through solar panels. I calculate the ratio of the ratio of area of the sun to the lit portion of the earth (FE) to be 100,000 to 1. That means that each square foot of the sun has 100,000 times as much energy passing through/generated as the surface of the earth receives. The edge of the dome around the sun must be some pertty remarkable material, ditto whatever holds it up, shade mechanism.

Even more interesting is the total failure of RET explanation for the sun that produces all that power to grow plants, make wind and rain and ocean currents, power solar cells, heat the ground, etc. RET says it is a giant blob of hydrogen that compresses itself into fusion. Not sure it works with 35 mile diameter blob of hydrogen. Pretty sure it doesn't.

116

Flat Earth Theory / Re: questions about day/night sky

« on: December 11, 2021, 10:58:20 PM »

Metatron, do you have any reason to believe or explanation for your claim other than: the earth is flat, so whatever has to happen to make sense of it must be true. No explanation of the physics/optical properties, just "well, compressed hydrogen may have interesting optical properties and  hydorgen might be compressed in the dome, so issue resolved, it might be?

You do understand that RET explains this without any need of unknown forces, unknown properties, unknown equations? That RET is consistent with all known physics and observations? Only in FEland does it have flaws, in the world of astronomers, astronauts, satellites, gps, navigation, nuclear missile aiming, satellite tv antenna aiming, equatorial telescope mounts, gyroscopes/gyrocompass (15 degrees per hour, Bob Knodel), artillery ranging, etc, it works perfectly.

You have a situation you can't diagram or explain, I have a hundred different daily proofs that have a system of experiments and equations confirming RE.

117

Flat Earth Theory / Re: questions about day/night sky

« on: December 09, 2021, 02:19:16 AM »

MetaTron,

There is future time when information will come in that explains how the person in STL sees stars at the farthest end of the dome, directly beyond SLC that is still in daylight.

***(
***
***_______________________________SLC______________________STL
far edge of the dome
stars as seen by STL

SLC sees daylight there. STL sees stars from farther away.

If what you are saying is really "I have no explanation but refuse to accept RE", then I can't argue with you.

Those are your choices. Like a FE map with constant scale and correct distances everywhere, you will wait forever.

118

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Untrustworthy quotation in the wiki

« on: December 07, 2021, 06:45:49 PM »

What is the significance of 52% thinking the moon landings were fake?

What is the significance of a vast majority thinking the earth is round?

https://www.yahoo.com/now/three-in-100-britons-think-the-earth-is-flat-143259242.html
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/flat-earthery-british-style/

119

Flat Earth Theory / Re: questions about day/night sky

« on: December 06, 2021, 06:36:39 PM »

MetaTron,

Just after sunset in STL, a person in SLC and one in STL look at the spot on the dome half way between them, an equal distance from each. One sees darkness, the other sees light. Exact same distance.

Worse yet, the person in SlC can look eastward and see light blue sky on the dome waaaaaaay further from them. Look at my character graphics diagram. STL sees darkness at all distances, SLC sees light at all distances.

Even worse, the person in SLC sees the light travel from the sun to their west, across the dome and back to them still bright. The person in STL looks directly at the sun and doesn't see it even though the distance is much shorter.

So you need to explain that. It has nothing to do with distance.

Perhaps the totality of your position, simply put,  is: "The earth is flat and there is a dome. I have no idea how people under this dome can see a daytime sky in one place and a nighttime sky in another at the same time."

Do you acknowledge that RET explains this? Do you admit that FET has only the conviction that it can be explained, but has no explanation?

120

Flat Earth Theory / Re: questions about day/night sky

« on: December 06, 2021, 04:50:01 AM »

I am eagerly awaiting an explanation of how someone in Salt Lake City looks up and sees light blue over the entire dome at the same time that someone in St Louis sees darkness at the same time.

This means that the person in St Louis is seeing stars against the night sky right through the daylight shinning down on salt lake city.

                                                                               
Stars seen from STL ...        *                                                                                                           Sky here is light blue from SLC
but from SLC, light blue    *                                                                                                               but stars from STL
                                   *
                                    _________________SLC___________________STL_____________________

I truly hope you can explain this.