*

Offline Particle Person

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2968
  • born 2 b b&
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #80 on: July 28, 2014, 07:44:47 AM »
I'm just not entirely enthusiastic about having Daniel still able to pull up the drawbridge (looks like he wants total control of the front page for example) and the no one has mentioned the idiot John Davis yet. Daniel is likely to keep a special place for his retard friend and I don't want to be on a site where he is an admin. We ban almost no one here and there isn't much drama. Davis was forever banning people and rubbing the community up the wrong way.

Calm down. This process seems to be progressing surprisingly well, and I suspect that's mostly due to the fact that everybody involved is being mature about it. Things are going to halt very quickly if we start calling members of the other society retards. Behavorial issues and administration policies can be addressed later, once we know that reunification is feasible in a technical sense.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

*

Offline jroa

  • *
  • Posts: 3094
  • Kentucky Gentleman
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #81 on: July 28, 2014, 09:25:11 AM »
It effects everyone, right?

AFFECTS.  It's a verb.  Look it up. 

*

Online xasop

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7766
  • Professional computer somebody
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #82 on: July 28, 2014, 12:47:47 PM »
Thork, I'm a patient man. Numerous times over the past seven months, I've argued in favour of letting misdemeanours on this forum slide when everyone else was calling for a ban. I firmly believe that self-moderation is the best form of moderation, and that everyone ultimately has good intentions, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for that reason. Now you are trying even my patience.

The decisions we make now are going to shape the Flat Earth Society for years to come. Don't kid yourself into thinking that any of us underestimates the importance of making the right choice. That's why we've been careful to let everyone have a fair chance to speak their mind, something most web forums don't even pretend to do. The idea that reunification is mutually beneficial is the first thing we've seen eye to eye with the other camp on for years, and I won't let you or anyone else throw a spanner in the works.

I'm only going to say this once: When you post in this thread, you will be civil. Go and post whatever obscenities you want in Angry Ranting, and nobody will stop you. But if you make another post like that in this thread again, you will get to be one of the vanishingly small group of members we've issued bans to.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13479
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #83 on: July 28, 2014, 05:07:29 PM »
Holy shit, Parsifal snapped.

Anyway, I see your point, Thork, and I share some of your concerns. This is why we're taking our time to talk things through and make sure that these sort of problems won't come up. I told Daniel that I'm a bit concerned about preserving the mentality and atmosphere we've built here, and so far he's been very receptive and open to change.

We haven't actually discussed how mods/admins for the merged site would be chosen yet, but in Daniel's original PM he said that he wouldn't mind just carrying on with our current team. Trust me, no one (Daniel included) wants to see the return of the status quo where people constantly complained and no one quite knew how to address these complaints. We're trying to work out a solution that lets us bring the positives together while weeding out the negatives.

While Parsifal's tone may be a bit OTT, I have to agree with him. You're not being civil. You're attacking whoever you can, whenever you can, just to get yet another stab at the concept of reunification. Please keep in mind that if by the end of our talks the general userbase is not happy to proceed with reunification, we won't proceed. We'll either restart talks or just scrap the idea altogether.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

Thork

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #84 on: July 28, 2014, 06:40:47 PM »
Thork, I'm a patient man. Numerous times over the past seven months, I've argued in favour of letting misdemeanours on this forum slide when everyone else was calling for a ban. I firmly believe that self-moderation is the best form of moderation, and that everyone ultimately has good intentions, and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for that reason. Now you are trying even my patience.

The decisions we make now are going to shape the Flat Earth Society for years to come. Don't kid yourself into thinking that any of us underestimates the importance of making the right choice. That's why we've been careful to let everyone have a fair chance to speak their mind, something most web forums don't even pretend to do. The idea that reunification is mutually beneficial is the first thing we've seen eye to eye with the other camp on for years, and I won't let you or anyone else throw a spanner in the works.

I'm only going to say this once: When you post in this thread, you will be civil. Go and post whatever obscenities you want in Angry Ranting, and nobody will stop you. But if you make another post like that in this thread again, you will get to be one of the vanishingly small group of members we've issued bans to.
I've no idea why you are so keen to give up a site that YOU run, and put your efforts into a site that SOMEONE ELSE runs. Especially when this site will become the de facto site when all you have to do is keep doing what you are doing and let Daniel keep not doing what he is supposed to be doing.

I've also no idea why I have to be civil to someone who isn't a member here. Obama doesn't post here. Do I have to be polite about him too?

I don't know why you are puckering over forum comments? Its not our side that needs a reunification and I'll remind you that a lot of the people in favour, are those who have an account on both sites. Not those who exclusively put there trust in you and PP as I did.

Ban me, don't ban me. The threat of a ban has never stopped me posting what I like before.

I don't think Daniel should run the society. He doesn't put anything into it. The society doesn't need him. It just needs him out of the way. Why should everyone run around making FES as good as possible so that Daniel can do nothing and say what a great society he runs? We left because of Daniel. No other reason. We came here because it is Danieless. I don't want more Daniel in my life.

And my loathing of John Davis is no secret. He won't lose any sleep over it.

Holy shit, Parsifal snapped.

Anyway, I see your point, Thork, and I share some of your concerns. This is why we're taking our time to talk things through and make sure that these sort of problems won't come up. I told Daniel that I'm a bit concerned about preserving the mentality and atmosphere we've built here, and so far he's been very receptive and open to change.

We haven't actually discussed how mods/admins for the merged site would be chosen yet, but in Daniel's original PM he said that he wouldn't mind just carrying on with our current team. Trust me, no one (Daniel included) wants to see the return of the status quo where people constantly complained and no one quite knew how to address these complaints. We're trying to work out a solution that lets us bring the positives together while weeding out the negatives.

While Parsifal's tone may be a bit OTT, I have to agree with him. You're not being civil. You're attacking whoever you can, whenever you can, just to get yet another stab at the concept of reunification. Please keep in mind that if by the end of our talks the general userbase is not happy to proceed with reunification, we won't proceed. We'll either restart talks or just scrap the idea altogether.
I still haven't been given a reason why merging the sites would be good for users. If I wanted to post there, I'd have an account there. Its not a disaster to have to post on two sites. I don't because I have no interest in the old guard. They are never there. I also prefer the rules here. Are we going back to fearing the 'n-word' etc? Of course we would be. Daniel isn't going to be moved on that.

This is a thread for posting opinions on reunification. You might not like them, you might not find them constructive, but they are my opinions and I'll keep posting them until I get that ban.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13479
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #85 on: July 28, 2014, 07:18:48 PM »
I've no idea why you are so keen to give up a site that YOU run, and put your efforts into a site that SOMEONE ELSE runs.
What, exactly, makes you think that someone else would be running the reunified site? We haven't even settled that yet.

I've also no idea why I have to be civil to someone who isn't a member here. Obama doesn't post here. Do I have to be polite about him too?
You have to be civil, full stop. Especially in this thread, because it's important.

Its not our side that needs a reunification
We already went through the reasons for a reunification. You're welcome to re-read them. You will also recall that a potential reunification was relatively high on our priority list since day 1. Besides, the idea was met with overwhelming support from the community here. Even if we don't need it, it's clear that people want it.

Ban me, don't ban me. The threat of a ban has never stopped me posting what I like before.
It's not what you say, it's how you say it. This is why you've been asked to be civil, rather than to stop opposing reunification. Act your age, that's all.

I don't think Daniel should run the society. He doesn't put anything into it. The society doesn't need him. It just needs him out of the way. Why should everyone run around making FES as good as possible so that Daniel can do nothing and say what a great society he runs?
Your opinion has been noted. Granted, it contradicts facts, but it has been noted. The facts are that Daniel is active less often than not, and that's a problem we hope to address with a more robust power structure (Daniel+ZC, probably). When active, Daniel contributes a lot, in ways none of us ever have (just look at the library for a quick example - this isn't stuff that was easily available before he made it so). Yes, there are problems with how FES is run, and reunification on good terms is exactly the way to tackle that.

We left because of Daniel. No other reason. We came here because it is Danieless. I don't want more Daniel in my life.
Please speak for yourself, not for others. Judging by the general responses in this thread, most people don't have much of an issue with Daniel, but simply with the way things were organised.

And my loathing of John Davis is no secret. He won't lose any sleep over it.
There you go, you're making progress. You expressed the same sentiment as before while remaining reasonably civil.

I still haven't been given a reason why merging the sites would be good for users.
You have, you simply don't like those reasons. And that's fine, we'll take it into account during the democratic vote.

If I wanted to post there, I'd have an account there. Its not a disaster to have to post on two sites. I don't because I have no interest in the old guard.
That's why we're not considering restoring the old guard. Have you even read Daniel's PM that I quoted here?

I also prefer the rules here. Are we going back to fearing the 'n-word' etc? Of course we would be. Daniel isn't going to be moved on that.
No, our proposal is to use our rules as the foundation, with the potential for a few minor tweaks. Banning the word "nigger" would be a dealbreaker for me, and as far as I know, for Parsifal too.

This is a thread for posting opinions on reunification. You might not like them, you might not find them constructive
I don't find them constructive, because you do exactly the same thing that Round Earthers do when they come to our site(s). They make up their own version of FET and then attack it. The things you're saying suggest that, in your mind, the reunification would be their site annexing us back on the old terms. That will not happen.

The concerns you're raising have already been put on the "to do" list before you raised them. You've been informed of that, but you're still shouting. This simply doesn't help anyone, including yourself.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 07:31:16 PM by pizaaplanet »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

*

Offline Tau

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 911
  • Magistrum Fallaciae
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #86 on: July 28, 2014, 09:13:29 PM »
Really, Thork. Have some faith in PP and Parsifal. And have some dignity, too. There's no reason to be rude.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

Read the FAQ: http://wiki.tfes.org/index.php?title=FAQ

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #87 on: July 28, 2014, 09:20:10 PM »
Have you considered what the dedicated users of the other site would feel about you 2 running the forum? If a similar thread is there id image they would strongly oppose you guys running their forum. Ultimately that could halt any merger happening at all. You mentioned that the mods and admins here will be running it. I don't think the mods there would be so happy about that idea either. That's a detail for you to work out later though. I'm interested how the other forum feel though, especially the reputation PP had/has.

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 6493
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #88 on: July 28, 2014, 09:25:29 PM »
Have you considered what the dedicated users of the other site would feel about you 2 running the forum? If a similar thread is there id image they would strongly oppose you guys running their forum. Ultimately that could halt any merger happening at all. You mentioned that the mods and admins here will be running it. I don't think the mods there would be so happy about that idea either. That's a detail for you to work out later though. I'm interested how the other forum feel though, especially the reputation PP had/has.
I bet they'd be ok with it.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13479
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #89 on: July 28, 2014, 09:28:09 PM »
Well, that's not really our remit.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

Offline Blanko

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2471
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #90 on: July 29, 2014, 04:24:44 AM »
It's fine, the other site is used to Daniel changing shit up at whim.

Offline Gayer

  • *
  • Posts: 846
  • I am a cunt
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #91 on: July 29, 2014, 08:25:50 AM »
It's fine, the other site is used to Daniel changing shit up at whim.

We like it, makes life more interesting.

*

Offline markjo

  • Purgatory
  • *
  • Posts: 5752
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #92 on: July 29, 2014, 12:27:37 PM »
It's fine, the other site is used to Daniel changing shit up at whim.

We like it, makes life more interesting.
Isn't there an an ancient Chinese curse that says something about hanging out on interesting web sites?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

*

Online xasop

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7766
  • Professional computer somebody
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #93 on: July 29, 2014, 01:03:21 PM »
Guys, please try to keep to the topic. Take it elsewhere if you want to ramble about Chinese proverbs.

I've also no idea why I have to be civil to someone who isn't a member here. Obama doesn't post here. Do I have to be polite about him too?

In S&C, yes, as per the forum rules (rule 1, and to a lesser extent, rules 3 and 6).

I don't know why you are puckering over forum comments?

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that making personal attacks in S&C was up for discussion. Nobody is criticising you for expressing your opinions, and we've taken those into account. Unfortunately for you, most people don't share your view, and you're going to have to accept that instead of flying off the rails and making wildly inaccurate assertions.

If you want to make a counterpoint, then fine, but stay calm and be civil in the upper fora. Making personal attacks (whether directed at people who have registered here or not) doesn't lend your stance any credibility, nor does it do our public image any favours, either as an independent society or with a view to reunion.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #94 on: July 31, 2014, 10:22:40 AM »
As has been alluded to in another thread, the possibility of a reunification between this Society and theflatearthsociety.org is now open for discussion from the community.


A reunification would be great.

However, there is only one problem to be solved: the quality of the moderation (something which all of you tried to improve/upgrade here on this website).

There should be a team of moderators which would include members from BOTH websites; and decisions should be taken together, after some kind of deliberation.




Thork

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #95 on: July 31, 2014, 01:16:50 PM »
As has been alluded to in another thread, the possibility of a reunification between this Society and theflatearthsociety.org is now open for discussion from the community.


A reunification would be great.

However, there is only one problem to be solved: the quality of the moderation (something which all of you tried to improve/upgrade here on this website).

There should be a team of moderators which would include members from BOTH websites; and decisions should be taken together, after some kind of deliberation.




How about Wilmore, Jroa and Roundy from the other site? As long as its not John Davis.

*

Offline Pete Svarrior

  • e
  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13479
  • (>^_^)> it's propaganda time (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #96 on: August 03, 2014, 07:07:35 AM »
Just for the sake of transparency: we're still exchanging e-mails at a fairly leisurely pace. It seems like trust/personality issues have been put aside, since the discussion mostly deals with technical details (such as how DNS would be managed, how we'd merge the two sites' databases, etc.).

There are a few things I feel comfortable saying by now, but please don't take any of this as promises or declarations. Things might change, they might change suddenly, and they might change drastically. But here's where we are for now:
  • We will probably be reuniting.
  • Our forum will most likely inherit the other forum's database, bringing all posts, users, etc. here.
    • This will be a time-consuming task.
    • In principle, we could merge people's accounts, so that all their posts and stats from both sites are taken into account. We intend to at least try this, and I see no reason why we wouldn't succeed.
    • We intend for forum.tfes.org and other subdomains to redirect to their respective theflatearthsociety.org domains so that either can be used to access the site
  • We also hope to continue using our current Wiki.
  • theflatearthsociety.org's homepage will stay as it is, and ours will likely be retired.

Again, none of that is final. It's an educated guess on my part based on the direction the conversation has been taking so far. It's been going pretty smoothly thus far.

How about Wilmore, Jroa and Roundy from the other site?
As far as I'm concerned, that sounds sensible. We haven't discussed the details of the moderation team yet, but if I'm reading Daniel's messages right, we shouldn't have much trouble reaching an agreement there.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

<Parsifal> I like looking at Chinese Wikipedia with Noto installed
<Parsifal> I don't understand any of it but the symbols look nice

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #97 on: August 03, 2014, 07:53:06 AM »
Yay. Happy that the users finally did something, and it eventually resulted in what everyone wanted.

Thork

Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #98 on: August 03, 2014, 08:08:17 AM »
@PP

Can you bring discussions about T-shirts and membership? The way it was run on the old site was an embarrassment. It would be nice to either 3rd party the merch or have someone who will actually send it out the same week look after it.

When you take people's money, you have a responsibility to deliver as promised.

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 6493
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: On the notion of FES reunification
« Reply #99 on: August 03, 2014, 12:14:36 PM »
This is good news.
Anyone know how the other forum feels?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.