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2821
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why the space mission failed?
« on: September 04, 2018, 09:13:49 AM »
To be fair, going vertically is quite a lot trickier than going horizontally - otherwise space tourism would be much more of a thing right now.
But we do have the technology to go into space and I haven’t seen a coherent argument why we wouldn’t have.

Agreed. I think the point is what in FET makes, for example, the existence of the ISS, 250 miles up, an impossibility?

2822
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Questions for Flat Earth Model(s)
« on: September 04, 2018, 09:07:32 AM »
The author freely uses statistical terms in his work. Terms such as "mean deflections," etc. It is very easy to lie with statistics. These guys don't get paid by saying that modern science is wrong. That causes you to not be funded.

Who are you to assume what the author's motivations are? And just about everything can be manipulated, doesn't mean that it is. What kind of an argument is that?

Just listen to the logic you are proposing. You are asserting that Einstein can predict the starlight deflection, but cannot literally predict anything else in the universe, the universe needing to be filled with dark matter and dark energy to fill in any and all gaps.

I never made that assertion. I'm asserting that Einstein made the starlight deflection prediction and 100 years later, it still holds, period. You brought up dark matter and such, I never mentioned that.

What a weak argument. Throw it away and start over. The physics of the universe isn't about the deflection of starlight around the sun.

Ummm, you brought up the whole "deflection of starlight" issue to begin with. And no one was talking about the entirety of the physical universe.

That's a humor website. What are the credentials of those people who call his work "comical attempts"?

Yeah, you cited this guy, definitely a gentleman and a scholar. Good job.

Just a smattering of his excellent investigative work (Check out the rest here: http://mileswmathis.com/bestfake.html):

NEW PAPER, added 8/20/16, The Lizzie Borden Axe Murders Never Happened. Another major hoax from Massachusetts.

NEW PAPER, added 7/19/16, The Society of Friends looks like another Jewish Front. We look at George Fox, founder of the Quakers.

NEW PAPER, added 5/5/16, The French Revolution. A backwards continuation of my Napoleon paper, with more appearances of the House of Vasa. Also some news about Louis XVI.

NEW PAPER, added 4/18/16, Was Napoleon Jewish? Plus many other things that will shock and confound you, including more on Laplace.

NEW PAPER, added 1/8/16, Steve Jobs: Bold, Brilliant, Brutal. . . Fake. We find that everyone involved in the Apple project is not who you were told.

NEW PAPER, added 11/19/17, Bill Gates: Jewish Aristocrat. Where we link Gates to everyone else you have ever heard of, and show Microsoft is one more front of the MATRIX.


2823
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Why the space mission failed?
« on: September 04, 2018, 08:38:03 AM »
So the original post asks a good question. Whatever the shape of the earth why wouldn’t we have the technology to go into space? Rockets demonstrably work, I have witnessed a space shuttle launch. Why couldn’t the technology exist to get us into space?

I wonder too. In the wiki regarding the Moon it states: "It has a diameter of 32 miles and is located approximately 3000 miles above the surface of the earth." You can fly coast to coast in the States, about 3000 miles, in around 6 hours. Hell, Quantas just started a route non-stop from San Francisco to Melbourne and that's pushing 8000 miles. So what really in FET is preventing humans from going 3000 miles vertically?

2824
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Questions for Flat Earth Model(s)
« on: September 04, 2018, 08:22:52 AM »
Astronomers search for an alternative, because General Relativity can't explain basic movement and behavior of the universe. It is a failure.

Here's a recent non-failure:

Gravitational Starlight Deflection Measurements during the 21 August 2017 Total Solar Eclipse

Abstract:

The final result was a deflection coefficient L = 1.752 arcsec, compared to the theoretical value of L = 1.751 arcsec, with an uncertainty of only 3%."

"Corrections for atmospheric refraction were still needed, but those were easily calculated from local weather measurements. Hence, this particular trial had fewer obstacles to reach high accuracy.”


https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1802/1802.00343.pdf

2825
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Questions for Flat Earth Model(s)
« on: September 04, 2018, 06:55:54 AM »
In the last two articles on Medium we read that his bending starlight predictions were NOT correct. The Eddington result was pretty questionable and Einstein's theory was observed to be false on several other occasions.

A) Medium is not known for being a scientific journal.
B) The author you reference is a former naval navigator, not a theoretical physicist and none of his 'works' have been peer reviewed.
C) And yes, Eddington's results were questioned by some.

However, unlike what the author makes up in his medium articles, the subsequent eclipse tests, in 1922, 1953 and 1973 each confirmed with greater accuracy Einstein's predictions.





2826
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Questions for Flat Earth Model(s)
« on: September 04, 2018, 04:51:52 AM »
You were lied to. Einstein specifically lost the Nobel Prize for Relativity because his theories were NOT successful.

This statement is sort of bending the argument to your will. If anything, as the Nobel committee stated with their caveat to Einstein's Nobel award, "without taking into account the value that will be accorded your relativity and gravitation theories after these are confirmed in the future". In other words, the committee felt relativity was untested at the time. NOT that his theories were unsuccessful.

See these articles:

No doubt: Einstein’s General Theory Of Relativity Was Wrong

Astronomical Data of 1919 -1973 Eclipse Prove Einstein’s Prediction Doesn’t Work

As well, this author seems to be pretty liberal with the facts and is full of conjecture and is definitely not a physicist.

This regarding the 1919 Eclipse experiment as well as subsequent experiments further cementing Einstein was correct and actually, his theories quite successful - From the APS:

"Not everyone immediately accepted the results. Some astronomers accused Eddington of manipulating his data because he threw out values obtained from the Brazilian team’s warped telescopes, which gave results closer to the Newtonian value. Others questioned whether his images were of sufficient quality to make a definitive conclusion. Astronomers at Lick Observatory in California repeated the measurement during the 1922 eclipse, and got similar results, as did the teams who made measurements during the solar eclipses of 1953 and 1973. Each new result was better than the last. By the 1960s, most physicists accepted that Einstein’s prediction of how much light would be deflected was the correct one.”

https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/201605/physicshistory.cfm

2827
Yes - I'm slowly finding this to be a much more interesting and worthwhile endeavour than FET itself. FET yields itself well into the "question absolutely everything" mindset, but perhaps it doesn't go far enough. Perhaps a more general movement is needed.

That is why Rowbotham and Lady Blount called their societies the Zetetic Society and the Universal Zetetic Society rather than the Flat Earth Society.

From Schadewald’s book:
"The founding meeting of the Universal Zetetic Society was apparently held on Wednesday, September 21, 1892, at John Williams’s Southwark home. [ref. 4.2]  It’s not clear who besides Williams attended, though probably most of those selected to the UZS Committee were there.  The founders decided on a name, a motto, an object, and a set of rules as follows:

OUR MOTTO

For God and His truth, as found in Nature and taught in His Word.

OUR OBJECT

The propagation of knowledge relating to Natural Cosmogony in confirmation of the Holy Scriptures, based upon practical investigation."


Definitely seems larger in scope than the subset of a flat earth.

2828
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Questions for Flat Earth Model(s)
« on: September 03, 2018, 07:42:37 PM »
I was really hoping some of you would actually try to defend your positions but it looks like I’m going to be bored by the conversation.

My experience as to the way it works around here (and rightfully so) is that you need to express your concerns/desire for explanations for each issue individually. Case in point, Universal Acceleration. There are many threads with dozens of pages devoted to the exploration of such. Just search on ‘Universal Acceleration’, for example, and you’ll see what I mean. Same goes for the other topics. Or, start your own topic, but best to address a single issue at a time.

2829
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Questions for Flat Earth Model(s)
« on: September 03, 2018, 07:32:18 AM »
Search the wiki and the forums, you'll find tons of stuff. To get you started:

- What is a satellite?
- If they aren’t real, then what are we seeing?
- If they’re balloons; How high are they? How do they attain such speed? Where are they launched and landed? How do they overcome wind currents? What propels them? Why can I see an obviously non-balloon shape in my telescope?

Anyway, here are a few threads I picked out from my search for "satellites". They don't directly address your question, but they do explain the FES's general views on satellites and their existence (n.b. I am not trying to make this an exhaustive list, just providing a starting point):

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=1150.0
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=2141.0
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=3359.0
https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=2445.0

- Is the sun flat?
- How large and how far away is the sun?
- If the law of perspective pushed by flat earthers is true, and the earth is indeed flat,  why does the sun not grow from dawn to noon and shrink from noon to dusk? The moon also? They should appear to shrink and grow and shrink again as the day goes by, and significantly at that, depending on their sizes and their distance away from the earth!
- If “perspective” is true and the earth is flat, then why can’t we bring the sun or moon back into view with binoculars or a telescope?
- What are solar and lunar eclipses?

https://wiki.tfes.org/Sun

- What are the planets?
- Why do they move in relation to the stars?
- How does the FE Model explain the obviously spherical shape of these planets? (Rotation, rings, moons, solar eclipses from the moons, etc.)

https://wiki.tfes.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions

- What do the governments of the world gain from covering up the flat earth?
- How do they keep it a secret?

https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Conspiracy

- What is gravity?

https://wiki.tfes.org/Universal_Acceleration


2830
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat vs. Sphere Challenge (Group Effort)
« on: September 03, 2018, 05:02:59 AM »
I left a comment on the JTolen Media video asking for more data on the Salton Sea shot. No response yet. So being a lazy Sunday, I reviewed all of the Cell towers around the Salton Sea. Here’s what I found:


2831
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Long Pipe Perspective Experiment
« on: September 03, 2018, 04:49:25 AM »
Curious.

Curious only if we're all walking around looking through a pipe strapped to our faces. I fail to see how this represents any real world observation of the sun dropping below the horizon.

2832
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What Would You Do?
« on: September 03, 2018, 03:45:38 AM »
Well ... I think mainstream science will readily accept that gravity decreases with distance; otherwise, we might see tidal effects based on the orbit of Jupiter or Saturn.

So is it the "discontinuous" aspect that you predict?  If so, could you elaborate? If you don't expect it to drop at a linear, predictable rate, do you think it varies at random?
No, it decreases discontinuously rather than in a smooth curve. I don't know how you got randomness from that. It decreases in sharp, sudden jumps (though those jumps are fairly close together at lower altitudes). For example, if you had a ludicrously sensitive gravimeter and could measure the change from, say, the basement of your house to the roof, you'd find that the rate was more or less constant throughout your house except for one spike at, say, the top of your stairs where it closes basically the whole distance from the basement value to the roof value.

What causes the spikes and what do the spikes indicate?

2833
Also, your claims about "anyone with common sense" are irrelevant. We already know that there are numerous individuals vehemently demanding an explanation for this - you pretending not to know this is not a counter-argument.

When the thrust of an article (I use that term ‘article’ very loosely in this case) is predicated on something like, "In a Reddit post, captioned…” one should know right quick that they're not in for any sort of Woodward and Bernstein-esque investigative journalism or anything that should be deemed ‘journalism’, for that matter. The onus is on the reader to determine whether something should be trusted or not.

As for those vehemently making demands, they are obviously ignorant and/or have never had a window seat on a plane. Seems like it’s their personal problem and not an indictment of all journalistic endeavors and certainly these rags shouldn’t be considered the bellwether for the decline of critical thinking in the media. We’ve got plenty of proof of that regarding far more important issues elsewhere. 

2834
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat vs. Sphere Challenge (Group Effort)
« on: September 01, 2018, 09:31:44 AM »
As far as we know, JTolan just picked out a picture of one of those towers because a lot of those towers don't even have street view images. I checked. Street view is absent in the areas around many of those towers.

JTolan clearly writes that the tower was 130 feet. The tower you selected was not 130 feet. It was 200 feet. And there are no matching mountains or hills in the background. He clearly got that number of 130 feet from somewhere for the tower he is talking about.

Ok, fair enough. He picked a random street view picture of a tower on the Salton Sea that resembles a different tower on the Salton Sea that he actually shot just to show what towers look like. Check. Then he "clearly writes that the tower was 130 feet" on top of the image of a random tower on the Salton Sea that is not the tower he was shooting...as an example of what 130 feet looks like. Check.

Curious note that he wrote 130 feet as the height of the tower and the RE curvature calculator puts that exact tower & land I referenced, 17 miles away, at 130 feet hidden.

Btw, I looked at all of the towers around the Salton Sea. The shortest one was 187', with exception of one that was 124'. This one:


2835
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat vs. Sphere Challenge (Group Effort)
« on: September 01, 2018, 08:43:42 AM »
If you go to that location and turn around away from the sea, there are no hills or mountains in the background. We will have to wait and see that JTolan says. There are a whole bunch of towers that look like that in the area and around the sea.

It's definitely the correct tower, according to the image J Tolen showed as his target. The reference image matches exactly to the location image I provided, lone palm tree, white buildings and all. There are mountains back there looking the other way, but again, the x factor; where exactly did he shoot from 17 miles away?

2836
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat vs. Sphere Challenge (Group Effort)
« on: September 01, 2018, 08:22:52 AM »
According to Bilsin’s Advanced Earth Curvature Calculator, 6’ camera level at the Salton Sea shore from 17 miles, with the tower at 199.1 feet tall, with its base 141.9 feet above the Salton Sea level (Land + Tower = 335’ total), 130.7 feet are hidden. Subtracting the hidden height from 335’ you get 204.3’. Meaning you should see the entirety of the tower +5’ from the 17 mile distance. Which seems to check out perfectly from an RE perspective.



Now, the X factor is whether the camera was at the shore line, 6’ feet above. It looks like it’s at the shoreline from the original image, but I can’t say with all certainty. If it was, based upon the angle, I put the camera right about here:


2837
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat vs. Sphere Challenge (Group Effort)
« on: September 01, 2018, 07:42:57 AM »
According to this link below there are 14 or 15 towers around that sea. How would we know which one it is? Bobby said that he was unable to match the mountain in the background with the tower he found, and the one he found was of a different height to the tower JTolan is looking at.


2838
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat vs. Sphere Challenge (Group Effort)
« on: September 01, 2018, 12:26:59 AM »


I'd like to know ground elevations. The tower is listed as 200' AGL but I can't remember the elevation it's standing on. I'm on my phone so can't look it up easily. But it would be important to get the relative elevation and heights right and verify the distance. The fact that the tower is listed as 200' and not 130' is reason enough to question. It may be 130' after subtracting a below sea level elevation. But where was the camera positioned 6' over?

The Salton Sea is 236 below sea level.

Using J Tolans screen shot, the tower, as Bobby stated, is owned by T Mobile. It is located here: 33.279167 / -115.962417

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/details.php?id=1240572

According to the above, the tower info:

Height:

Overall Height Above Ground: 60.7 meters or 199.1 feet
Overall Height Above Ground Without Appurtenances: 60.7 meters or 199.1 feet
Elevation of Site Above Mean Sea Level: -28.7 meters or -94.1 feet
Overall Height Above Mean Sea Level: 32.0 meters or 104.987 feet

Base of the tower is 141.9’ above the Salton Sea + the height of the tower (199.1) means that the top of the tower is 199.1 + 141.9 = 341’ above the Sea - 6’ equals a total tower height of 335’.  Now this is assuming the shot is from 6’ above the sea, which seems to be the case from J Tolen’s image.

2839
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat vs. Sphere Challenge (Group Effort)
« on: August 31, 2018, 07:42:03 PM »
We have no idea what the weather conditions was like on that day at those times. There is no way to quantify this based on Rowbotham's identification of weather as the correlating criteria without knowing more about the scene.

We do:


2840
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Flat vs. Sphere Challenge (Group Effort)
« on: August 31, 2018, 09:41:15 AM »
ENAG forms the basis of the Flat Earth movement. If you want to attack Flat Earth, you need to assess Earth Not a Globe to see what the actual assertions are.

Running around shouting "I expect to see zero amount hidden at ALL times" is disingenuous . This is not what Rowbotham describes or expected to see at all. You should read and understand what the theory is based on if you are to attack it.
No one has been "Running around shouting "I expect to see zero amount hidden at ALL times". Like I wrote, you've been asked many times for input as to what the FE hidden value should be as a part of the baseline data set. Where was your concern for the baseline 3 pages ago?

The goalposts were never moved. Our study of the sinking ship effect is written in black and white, published over 150 years ago. Rowbotham described it as highly variable, and obviously due to local and special causes since the effect goes away over time. Rowbotham relates the effect to the weather moreso than any concrete pattern, and suggests that the water convexity experiment is done on a calm day and preferably  on a standing body of water.
Great, one book, by one guy of dubious reputation. 

If you are looking at one sunken scene and jumping up and down screaming "I win," you are doing it wrong. You need to read the literature to see what you actually need to debunk.
And no one is screaming "I win". Simply do the math and show the numbers that explain FE deltas for this challenge.

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