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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2017, 08:39:09 AM »

Well-done the Dutch, finger in the dyke to stop the trickle of fear based, divisive, backward looking politics becoming a flood.

What was that beer by the way? Bitter?
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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2017, 10:41:55 AM »
Polls will be closing soon. I have a celebratory beer waiting in the fridge for when Wilders claims victory.

Well that was a waste of money. Good job you didn't buy champagne.

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Online xasop

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2017, 11:36:25 AM »
Well-done the Dutch, finger in the dyke to stop the trickle of fear based, divisive, backward looking politics becoming a flood.

You realise the only reason Rutte won was that he shifted his policies to be more like Wilders, right?

What was that beer by the way? Bitter?

A rye imperial stout. I've had a few of them before. I'll be drinking it anyway because it's really fucking good.

Well that was a waste of money. Good job you didn't buy champagne.

I wouldn't rule out Wilders joining a ruling coalition with Rutte just yet. I know Rutte has said he won't enter a coalition with the PVV, but you know how politicians are with promises.
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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2017, 05:07:42 PM »
I wouldn't rule out Wilders joining a ruling coalition with Rutte just yet. I know Rutte has said he won't enter a coalition with the PVV, but you know how politicians are with promises.
[/quote]

I haven't ruled it out, but it doesn't look like they need him, and being the Junior Partner in a coalition hardly seems like he "claimed victory"

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2017, 09:52:19 PM »


You realise the only reason Rutte won was that he shifted his policies to be more like Wilders, right?

Wrong, or at least I mostly disagree. I'm no expert on Dutch politics so this is my speculation. He tacked to the wind of public opinion in a way the Tories in Britain failed to do, those who felt their fears about immigration weren't being listened to but were deeply suspicious of Wilders extreme views on Muslims were courted, especially by his dealings with the Turkish government. But don't forget Rutte lost 8 seats.
Where Wilders lost I believe, was a combination of the Dutch people rejecting the thought of them being another part of  the populist/Brexit/Trump bandwagon, and especially as the implementation of the closure of mosques and the banning of the Koran is overtly more fascist in its implications than many in a country with the Netherlands history would be comfortable. The massive turnout and surge in the greens vote, I think bears this out.


What was that beer by the way? Bitter?


A rye imperial stout. I've had a few of them before. I'll be drinking it anyway because it's really fucking good.
Sarcasm wasted there then.


Quote from: Parsifal
I wouldn't rule out Wilders joining a ruling coalition with Rutte just yet. I know Rutte has said he won't enter a coalition with the PVV, but you know how politicians are with promises.

I doubt/hope this won't happen. He doesn't need him, and it would fly in the face of the way the majority voted.
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Offline honk

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2017, 02:03:55 PM »
I mean, he did lose the election. Not a huge stretch to call it a loss when it was, in fact, a loss.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2017, 02:18:04 PM »
"Spin."

I see Wilders has adopted Bernie math.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2017, 03:24:34 PM »
"Spin."

I see Wilders has adopted Bernie math.
Here's how Geert can still win!!1!
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Offline Blanko

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2017, 03:26:25 PM »
To be fair, in proportional representation systems merely gaining a significant amount of seats is often considered a victory. That might not necessarily be the case for Geert since he was expected to gain more(?), but it's also not as simple as the US electoral system.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2017, 04:44:01 PM »

Well 20 seats out of 150, when you predicted more than thirty, no chance of power as they think (rightly) he's dangerous and won't give him any power, but the hate-rag says it's victory, meh!
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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2017, 08:21:00 PM »
The Dutch are so wet.

5 socialist parties, a Christian party and a green party. All that weed as turned them into a bunch of hippies. Still, if they want to be Germany's lapdogs, that's up to them I suppose.  :-\

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Online xasop

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2017, 03:43:48 AM »
To be fair, in proportional representation systems merely gaining a significant amount of seats is often considered a victory. That might not necessarily be the case for Geert since he was expected to gain more(?), but it's also not as simple as the US electoral system.

He still gained more seats than he had previously, to the point that the PVV is now the second-largest party. Even if they are excluded from the government, they still can't be ignored when only the VVD has more seats.

I wouldn't exactly call this a victory, but it's far from being a loss.

Well 20 seats out of 150, when you predicted more than thirty

Largely, as I said, because Rutte shifted his policies to be more like Wilders. One such example of this occurred just a few days before the election, and likely caused a surge of popularity for the VVD.

And no, polls were not predicting more than 30 seats for Wilders immediately prior to the election. That had happened earlier in the cycle.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2017, 09:01:45 AM »
One such example of this occurred just a few days before the election, and likely caused a surge of popularity for the VVD.
If you think so little of PVV's core electorate as to suggest that they'd confuse Rutte's actions with anything remotely similar to PVV... damn, you must have a really bad opinion of PVV voters.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 09:28:10 AM by SexWarrior »
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Online xasop

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2017, 10:25:23 AM »
One such example of this occurred just a few days before the election, and likely caused a surge of popularity for the VVD.
If you think so little of PVV's core electorate as to suggest that they'd confuse Rutte's actions with anything remotely similar to PVV... damn, you must have a really bad opinion of PVV voters.

Given that Wilders was campaigning to refuse entry to the Turkish representatives for weeks prior to Rutte refusing entry to the Turkish representatives, I'd say they could be forgiven for such an error.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #75 on: March 18, 2017, 10:39:50 AM »
Given that Wilders was campaigning to refuse entry to the Turkish representatives for weeks prior to Rutte refusing entry to the Turkish representatives, I'd say they could be forgiven for such an error.
I guess, if they're completely blind to any reasoning behind the two potential actions. But, again, I think it would be downright disrespectful to assume they're so stupid.
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Online xasop

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2017, 10:45:36 AM »
I guess, if they're completely blind to any reasoning behind the two potential actions. But, again, I think it would be downright disrespectful to assume they're so stupid.

I'm not sure why you think we're talking about the PVV's "core electorate", anyway. The only way it makes sense to consider the PVV voters who jumped ship for VVD as their "core electorate" is if all 13% of Dutch voters who voted for PVV were fence-sitters. I think you have things a little backwards.

Meanwhile, in related news, the newly re-elected Dutch government apologises to the Turks for using them to create a diplomatic incident to garner votes:

http://www.volkskrant.nl/politiek/aanhouding-turkse-diplomaten-mogelijk-toch-fout~a4475919/

That didn't take long.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #77 on: March 18, 2017, 11:26:05 AM »
The only way it makes sense to consider the PVV voters who jumped ship for VVD as their "core electorate" is if all 13% of Dutch voters who voted for PVV were fence-sitters.
It's also possible that I was referring to a substantial part of the electorate rather than implying that literally everyone who supported PVV voted not-PVV, but I understand that you're working with a shortage of good arguments to support your side, so your resorting to shitposting is fair enough.
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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2017, 11:31:49 AM »
It's also possible that I was referring to a substantial part of the electorate rather than implying that literally everyone who supported PVV voted not-PVV, but I understand that you're working with a shortage of good arguments to support your side, so your resorting to shitposting is fair enough.

Given that their number of seats has gone up by 5 since the last election, I don't think it's reasonable to suppose that any of their core electorate has deserted them at all. Rather, they've gained a lesser number of voters from other parties than they might otherwise have done.

Putting it in those terms makes it sound much more plausible that Rutte's actions may have saved himself some PVV-curious votes, don't you think?
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: 2017 Dutch general election
« Reply #79 on: March 18, 2017, 12:17:03 PM »
Putting it in those terms makes it sound much more plausible that Rutte's actions may have saved himself some PVV-curious votes, don't you think?
Yes, which is why I'm opposing putting it in those terms. Misrepresenting what happened to make it sound like what you want it to be is not OK
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