5501

Philosophy, Religion & Society / America votes to arm Syrian Rebels. (and fund the government)

« on: September 18, 2014, 11:17:34 PM »

Anyone else feel like we're just doing the same stupid things over and over again?

5502

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Forum clock is about 2 mins out

« on: September 18, 2014, 10:27:51 PM »

And which time standard are you using to judge this?

5503

Science & Alternative Science / Re: MEDICAL QUESTION: How does saline spray work?

« on: September 18, 2014, 03:11:45 PM »

You swallow the snot.
It mixes then drops down the back of your throat.

*based on my general knowledge of biology.  May not be correct.  Consult your doctor.

5504

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 18, 2014, 01:49:55 AM »

Now, PLEASE note, I am NOT claiming to know the answer. I am merely claiming that the Exodus occurred

This would seem to be a great big contradiction.

On the other hand, good luck finding proof of a "Q", which NO ONE ever talked about until somebody invented the idea in their pea-brain in the 19th Century to explain how Mark came to be written first (which is crap; I expect the Catholic Church is right when they say that Matthew was first, and possibly originally in Hebrew, although the oldest copies that Christians possess are in Greek).

No one talked about Germs until the 19th century either.  Just saying...

You have to go back to Ockham's Razor. The simplest answer is the true one.

Ok.
The simplest answer is that, aside from a few historical bits, most of it is fake.  Done. 

They tell the story a bit differently, and inaccurately, ...

Citation needed. 

5505

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 18, 2014, 12:03:47 AM »

Actually, no, the comparison fails. its one thing to HAVE SOMETHING in your hand. A tradition, a long-standing idea, that people have believed, at that has been the basis of your civilisation. Then history comes along and says, "guess what? You were right for the last 2000 years." Its another thing to totally invent shit up out of whole cloth to try to explain your shoddy "scholarship" and your incompetence.

Just as easily as a lie can be perpetrated for 2,000 years, so too can a truth be hidden for 2,000 years.

Greek and Egyptian Mythology was considered factual religion and lasted for quite some time.  It was never proven false yet we think of it as such.  Do you know why?

5506

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 17, 2014, 10:49:46 PM »

Lets be honest. In what universe is an argument like that logical? If a court of law were trying to figure out how two different people wrote their books, any books, not necessarily the Gospels, and I as an attorney were to say to the Judge, "Sir, they used a third book that we have, and then a fourth document that no one has ever found. But we know it must exist.", how far do you think I'd get? Seriously.

It's very much like the Chinese Civilisation, where the first three dynasties were determined to be mythical, now the third of those has been proven historical through archaeological and historical research. I expect the first two will as well.

5507

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 17, 2014, 05:42:27 PM »

I have studied practically every religion on the planet at one time or other. This involved visiting the mosque for a time. And since I attended a Catholic university, I knew that would involve taking religion courses. Which I wouldn't have minded had they actually taught true Catholic doctrine rather than the liberal bullshit that they actually taught. Fortunately, outside of the Religion Dept, the university in question was an excellent one, and my philosophy major (one of the few universities in the country where the majority of philosophy profs are theists) and my history major were conservative, traditional, and brilliant.

Remember that I was raised completely NON-Observant. I was less Jewish than anybody I ever knew. I began exploring spirituality when I was about 12, but I didn't start with Judaism. I came to my own Faith late. My family did not encourage me to explore Judaism at all. That was a decision I made completely on my own, comparatively recently. In fact, where I lived, there was no synagogue, so I ended up starting my search in churches.

This journey for some Jews is NOT unusual. I always knew my ethnicity was Jewish, but it was essentially in a coma, and I never looked to the religion to succor me, since I lived in a totally non-Jewish environment. Why would I? What was there to appeal to me, until I came into contact with Jews? So it was much later, after exploring Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism that I finally turned  to Judaism.

This explains a few things.  Thanks.

5508

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 17, 2014, 05:01:29 PM »

I see no arguments from authority at all. Ad homs, yes, intended ones. Unless you count tradition as an authority (I'm not so sure I do, at least not a valid one per se). I mean, ok, it has a vote, but not a veto, lets put it that way.

This argument from authority:

I've studied "modern liberal Biblical scholarship" just as you have. In fact, I probably know more about it than you do, having been educated in a liberal Catholic university, where religion and theology courses were required. I also studied for ministry at one point. So don't try to lecture me about current liberal theology. I already know it better than you do. I simply am not stupid enough to accept it as you do.

Considering his own ad Hominems he throws about his own professors, im not sure he considers his education valid.  By his own insults, he probably knows only wrong things about the subject.

Jew question: why would a Jew learn christianity from a god hating atheist, then worship in a mosque, then claim to be a Jew?

Remember what I have said repeatedly on this thread. Jews neither know, nor particularly care, what God has or has not taught non-Jews. We know what God has taught us, and what he expects of us. What lies beyond that is quite beyond our paygrade, and none of our concern.

Unlesss its to kill Jews.  Amirite?

5509

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Scottish Independence

« on: September 16, 2014, 05:01:46 PM »

Are there any armchair economists around that can tell me if independence will be good or bad for Scotland? No Thork pls.

Bad.
At least in the short term.

What is the currency of Scotland?  The pound.  Can they still use it once they leave?  No one knows.
A couple banks are gonna relocate to London if they split.  So bad news there.

Basically their economy will have to do a major shift and that will not be pleasant for anyone.

5510

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Remember login broken

« on: September 15, 2014, 07:28:49 PM »

I'm on my phone (via opera) with both WiFi and cell tower net.  I also use my PC (Firefox) with sandboxie.

It'll log me out like once a month but that's it.

5511

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 15, 2014, 01:26:39 AM »

Please quote normally. It's unnecessarily hard to read your posts. 

He can't. He accesses the internet through an old wooden rotary phone.

Amish Paradise?

5512

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Secure Connections

« on: September 15, 2014, 01:25:52 AM »

Yes. It takes like 15 seconds.

Do you ever login to a bank with a non-shitty website?

Good one. Okay, it's more like 6 or 7 seconds. It's simply a fact that load times will increase if the entire site is hosted through HTTPS. Whether or not the difference is negligible is debatable.

Is performance suffering the same as negligible?

5513

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 15, 2014, 12:05:00 AM »

The Oral Torah is collected in 20 volumes of Talmud, which take up a shit-ton of space on a library shelf. I would recommend reading an encyclopedia entry on the age of the Jews.

As for the comment about the Muslims, do note that Jews are capable of change. We no longer execute for adultery, and the like. Muslims still LIVE in the Seventh Century. We refer to the Torah as the basis of legislation, but amend it as necessary to reflect life in the modern world, much as the United States no longer considers the Negro 3/5 of a person, or permits slavery, etc etc, but has amended its constitution to reflect changes in life in the modern age.

As far as keeping Oral Torah straight, its harder than a non-Jew thinks. Just because its been written down, in many cases, no firm decisions have been decided on its issues. They continued to be debated today. In some cases, firm decisions have been made, but in many, different decisions are made when the situation comes up depending on the circumstances.

Since human beings, and civilisations, do not always operate logically, application of the rules of logic cannot always apply. By that standard, they would have given up the search for the first three dynasties of China since for many, many years they had found NOTHING. But they did not, and eventually, the research paid off.

At present, I must sign off. Have a pleasant day, people.

When you see that the Written Torah is backed by the Oral Torah

As far as keeping Oral Torah straight, its harder than a non-Jew thinks.  Just because its been written down, in many cases, no firm decisions have been decided on its issues. They continued to be debated today. In some cases, firm decisions have been made, but in many, different decisions are made when the situation comes up depending on the circumstances.

I hope you notice the contradiction here.

So what you're saying is that you DON'T have the same culture as 4,500 years ago, the Oral Torah is debated and thus is not valid evidence of anything, and the written Torah doesn't back up the Oral in all places, giving that little evidence.

Also, didn't Egyptian Myth endure for quite a few thousand years?
Greek Mythology still persist to this very day.  Though it was believed to be true for a few thousand years as well.
And isn't Hinduism the oldest religion in the world?

I submit that people do invent religions that persist for thousands of years.  People are, after all, easily led.

5514

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Secure Connections

« on: September 14, 2014, 10:10:52 PM »

Won't performance suffer if everything is encrypted?

Do you notice when you log into your bank?

5515

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 14, 2014, 01:04:00 PM »

1. Argument from age.  Logical fallacy.
2. If they contain different things then they can't back each other up.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the oral Torah has been written down at least once yes?  So its not exactly hard to keep straight.

And 4,500 years?  Are you judging this simply from the estimated age of the book you get your ideas from or were you there?

And if the former, doesn't that say more about how Jews are incapable of change than it does to prove a point about history?  Following a book's rules about culture for longer than any civilization should?

Oh!  And wouldn't that mean that while Muslims are in the 7th century, you're well in the BCE?  Meaning you are more barbaric than them?

5516

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 14, 2014, 11:40:00 AM »

LEMON, I agree with you on that. RAMA SET, I'm inclined to agree with you, insofar as it is possible. But remember, they had a hard time finding a Jeep in the Sinai Peninsula from the Yom Kippur War recently because it had been buried in 50 feet of sand. So, of necessity, there are going to be lim
itations on what archaeology is able to accomplish at any one time.

And remember that the historicity of things when you're dealing with Judaism and the Jews is a little different than when you're dealing with younger civilisations. The Jewish civilisation is 4500 years old. We have maintained our culture and way of life far longer than most civilisations have on this planet, except the Chinese and possibly the Hindu (the Hindu being about the same age, and the Chinese being about 1500 years older).

Our civilisation has passed down our history through oral AND written traditions for 4500 years. When you see that the Written Torah is backed by the Oral Torah (the Oral Traditions of our Fathers), the history therein becomes a bit harder to dismiss out of hand. I am not suggesting that further research shouldn't be done. Of course it should. But what I am suggesting is that Torah gets the benefit of the doubt until such time as it is proven definitively true (most likely) or definitively false (highly unlikely).

So because Jews can read and write, the Torah must be true?
You do know that speaking what's written doesn't count as proof right?

5517

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: September 14, 2014, 02:56:26 AM »

They want to be airstruck?

They want as much of "the West" to fight them as possible. War polarizes beliefs. In peace time, most sane people would find ISIS' brand of radicalism to be outright disgusting, but in war anything goes. The more villages that get caught in the crossfire, the more recruits they can round up and convince that the big bad evil westerners are out to kill them.

It really is a perfect strategy.

You do horrible things against the "enemy" for the sole purpose of getting the "enemy" to attack you, which gives you the facts you need to get others to think of your enemy as their enemy.  And the more the "enemy" fights back, the more facts and recruitment material they get.

5518

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: ISIS and the Middle East

« on: September 14, 2014, 12:03:45 AM »

Obama is making his speech now.  Airstrikes are promised and all that.

Of course.
He has to look tough for the election.  And even his own party wants to kill muslims. 

Americans, generally, want them dead.  Which is sad.

Obama will not be in the next election. Why should he care?

Because for some reason the people associate the president with his party.  So if Obama does something, it's a reflection of all democrats.

5519

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Ask a Jew anything.

« on: September 14, 2014, 12:01:39 AM »

Don't you think the criteria for what is literally true in the Bible should rely upon archaeological techniques and stringent tests of historicity rather than the teachings of an understandably biased source?

Jews are God's chosen and therefore perfect in their knowledge.  Why would they need anything else?

5520

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Doctor Who

« on: September 13, 2014, 11:05:04 PM »

I've been bad.
Didn't see Robots of Sherwood nor will I see today's episode.

But otherwise I agree.  Reminds me a little of the first doctor.

Indeed. I believe Peter Capaldi is the same age William Hartnell was when he first started playing the Doctor. The parallels are there.

Plus the whole "First" doctor they share.  He's the first of a new regeneration set.