HorstFue

Re: Flat Earth at the Salton Sea
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2018, 09:37:32 PM »
There is a large body of work in the Flat Earth literature which says that the study should not be conducted on the sea. So just don't conduct water convexity experiments on the sea, okay?
So also Rowbotham's experiments in EnaG are inconsistent?
Experiment 6 - on the coast between Brighton and Worthing
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za11.htm
Experiment 7 - The "bar not showing the curve"
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za12.htm
Experiment 9 - the Lighthouses seen from mid of St. George's Channel (Dublin - Wales)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za14.htm
Experiment 12 - steamer sailing away from observer
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za17.htm
Experiment 15 .- the "clinometer" disproving dip of horizon
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za20.htm

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5491
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Flat Earth at the Salton Sea
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2018, 10:54:23 PM »
There is a large body of work in the Flat Earth literature which says that the study should not be conducted on the sea. So just don't conduct water convexity experiments on the sea, okay?
So also Rowbotham's experiments in EnaG are inconsistent?
Experiment 6 - on the coast between Brighton and Worthing
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za11.htm
Experiment 7 - The "bar not showing the curve"
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za12.htm

These two aren't the traditional water convexity experiments. Experiment 6 is about the tops of boats being level as they traveled. Experiment 7 is about the horizon being level with a long straight piece of wood.

Quote
Experiment 9 - the Lighthouses seen from mid of St. George's Channel (Dublin - Wales)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za14.htm

Look at the bottom of this page and search for "Eddystone" -- http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za33.htm

Rowbotham describes how the observation of lighthouses may be inconsistent at times, and depends on how calm the environment is. When the Eddystone lighthouse is visible from the location described it contradicts the Round Earth theory.

Quote
Experiment 12 - steamer sailing away from observer
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za17.htm

Like experiment 6, this one is actually about the top of the ship seen for longer than it should have been seen as the ship traveled away.

Quote
Experiment 15 .- the "clinometer" disproving dip of horizon
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za20.htm

Not the traditional water convexity experiment. It's an attempt to measure whether the horizon is at eye level.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 11:04:19 PM by Tom Bishop »

HorstFue

Re: Flat Earth at the Salton Sea
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2018, 09:14:01 PM »
These two aren't the traditional water convexity experiments. Experiment 6 is about the tops of boats being level as they traveled. Experiment 7 is about the horizon being level with a long straight piece of wood.
I let you go with Experiment 7, although curve or "not level" is quite the same in my opinion.
But experiment 6 is truly a level experiment: Trying to prove, that two piers and the mast head of the ship traveling between those two is "level". But again, this experiment is very inaccurate. Valuable parameters are omitted: The Tide. There's no hint how long the experiment lasted and no hint what was the state of the tide, which is quite high in the English Channel!

Look at the bottom of this page and search for "Eddystone" -- http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za33.htm

Rowbotham describes how the observation of lighthouses may be inconsistent at times, and depends on how calm the environment is. When the Eddystone lighthouse is visible from the location described it contradicts the Round Earth theory.
I cannot follow that deduction, that waves lower than the observer and the observed object will obscure significant parts of the object.
My opinion: The viewing distance in question is quite near the value, what is given by the curvature of the globe earth model.
Variations of atmospheric refraction may lessen or increase the viewing distance, so that depending on weather conditions Eddystone lighthouse may be sometimes visible.
As described in settled weather a density/temperature gradient may build up above the water, which gives high refraction values and so increasing the viewing distance. Where as in windy weather, with agitated sea, a temperature/density gradient will not build up above the water, so decreasing viewing distance.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5491
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Flat Earth at the Salton Sea
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2018, 10:34:13 AM »
These two aren't the traditional water convexity experiments. Experiment 6 is about the tops of boats being level as they traveled. Experiment 7 is about the horizon being level with a long straight piece of wood.
I let you go with Experiment 7, although curve or "not level" is quite the same in my opinion.
But experiment 6 is truly a level experiment: Trying to prove, that two piers and the mast head of the ship traveling between those two is "level". But again, this experiment is very inaccurate. Valuable parameters are omitted: The Tide. There's no hint how long the experiment lasted and no hint what was the state of the tide, which is quite high in the English Channel!

We are talking about the Sinking Ship effect in Earth Not a Globe. The Sinking Ship Effect describes that the ship is hidden by an effect that obscures the hull with the ocean. The fact that the tops of the masts of ships don't sink or rise as they travel is different than an effect that obscures the hull.

You are going off of that topic with your tides comment. You picked out an example that has no bearing on the Sinking Ship Effect that Rowbotham describes, and in fact supports it.

Quote
Look at the bottom of this page and search for "Eddystone" -- http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za33.htm

Rowbotham describes how the observation of lighthouses may be inconsistent at times, and depends on how calm the environment is. When the Eddystone lighthouse is visible from the location described it contradicts the Round Earth theory.
I cannot follow that deduction, that waves lower than the observer and the observed object will obscure significant parts of the object.
My opinion: The viewing distance in question is quite near the value, what is given by the curvature of the globe earth model.
Variations of atmospheric refraction may lessen or increase the viewing distance, so that depending on weather conditions Eddystone lighthouse may be sometimes visible.
As described in settled weather a density/temperature gradient may build up above the water, which gives high refraction values and so increasing the viewing distance. Where as in windy weather, with agitated sea, a temperature/density gradient will not build up above the water, so decreasing viewing distance.

You are talking about refraction now. We are talking about the Sinking Ship Effect in Earth Not a Globe and how the examples you gave do not invalidate it.

HorstFue

Re: Flat Earth at the Salton Sea
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2018, 10:01:55 PM »
Look at the bottom of this page and search for "Eddystone" -- http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za33.htm

Rowbotham describes how the observation of lighthouses may be inconsistent at times, and depends on how calm the environment is. When the Eddystone lighthouse is visible from the location described it contradicts the Round Earth theory.
I cannot follow that deduction, that waves lower than the observer and the observed object will obscure significant parts of the object.
My opinion: The viewing distance in question is quite near the value, what is given by the curvature of the globe earth model.
Variations of atmospheric refraction may lessen or increase the viewing distance, so that depending on weather conditions Eddystone lighthouse may be sometimes visible.
As described in settled weather a density/temperature gradient may build up above the water, which gives high refraction values and so increasing the viewing distance. Where as in windy weather, with agitated sea, a temperature/density gradient will not build up above the water, so decreasing viewing distance.

You are talking about refraction now. We are talking about the Sinking Ship Effect in Earth Not a Globe and how the examples you gave do not invalidate it.
Sorry, IMHO I'm talking about the Sinking ship Effect - Especially this case where Rowbotham describes, that sometimes the hull may not be restored with a telescope, due to waves and swell.
Different weather conditions, which produce swell and waves or not, may also be the reason for different atmospheric refraction conditions. So IMHO not the "Modified Law of Perspective" (due to waves) but different refraction values, caused by different weather conditions, are the reason, that sometimes the hull cannot be restored.