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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2018, 07:16:23 PM »
Therefore it seems that it's the responsibility of the supporters of that model to demonstrate what perspective does at long distances.

And when you ask me that question I point to perspective scenes such as railroad tracks and other scenes where things are meeting in the distance.

The response to this is "just because you can't see something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist..." LOL!

The burden is on you to demonstrate your unobservable position, and I think you know that to be true, and also know that your ultimate position to be weak, since you keep coming back here day after day.

Offline stack

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2018, 07:44:54 PM »
Therefore it seems that it's the responsibility of the supporters of that model to demonstrate what perspective does at long distances.
And when you ask me that question I point to perspective scenes such as railroad tracks and other scenes where things are meeting in the distance.

I don't see them meeting in the distance:


Offline Mysfit

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2018, 08:39:36 PM »
Therefore it seems that it's the responsibility of the supporters of that model to demonstrate what perspective does at long distances.
And when you ask me that question I point to perspective scenes such as railroad tracks and other scenes where things are meeting in the distance.

I don't see them meeting in the distance:


Just because you can't see something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
This could be a faulty track, or a pretend one.
I know my eyes are fooled. But I wouldn't believe it's all stuck together until i got close. You know, skepticism.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2018, 09:00:03 PM »
Therefore it seems that it's the responsibility of the supporters of that model to demonstrate what perspective does at long distances.

And when you ask me that question I point to perspective scenes such as railroad tracks and other scenes where things are meeting in the distance.

The response to this is "just because you can't see something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist..." LOL!

The burden is on you to demonstrate your unobservable position, and I think you know that to be true, and also know that your ultimate position to be weak, since you keep coming back here day after day.
I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to say.  In the context of RET, perspective is well defined, well understood and pretty easy to demonstrate.  What isn't well defined, understood or demonstrated is how perspective would need to work in the context of an FET sunset.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Offline stack

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2018, 09:17:37 PM »
Therefore it seems that it's the responsibility of the supporters of that model to demonstrate what perspective does at long distances.
And when you ask me that question I point to perspective scenes such as railroad tracks and other scenes where things are meeting in the distance.

I don't see them meeting in the distance:


Just because you can't see something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
This could be a faulty track, or a pretend one.
I know my eyes are fooled. But I wouldn't believe it's all stuck together until i got close. You know, skepticism.

Couldn't agree more.

Tom stated:
Only once you prove that the perspective lines never meet, in the setting of a continuous universe, can you use that argument at all.

Conversely, only once you prove that the perspective lines do meet, in the setting of a continuous universe, can you use your argument at all. Rendering the notion of a setting sun and it's relationship to a flat or round earth inconclusive. Therefore how a ‘setting’ sun works in either model is unknown, according to these parameters.

Offline RonJ

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2018, 04:15:55 AM »
Most people who have a regular land based job don't have any reason to even think about whether the earth is flat or round.  In my case the subject is vital to the jobs I've had in my 50 year career.  Now I'm a retired Merchant Marine officer and I sailed world wide.  I've been around the world a couple of times, in each direction.  Earlier I was considering being a airline pilot and did earn a commercial pilots license, but the shipping companies paid a whole lot more so I went to sea.  That doesn't mean that I didn't fly much.  I had my own electronics business for 23 years and flew my own airplane often on business.  The first five years of my career I worked for the local TV station as a transmitter engineer.  Having said all of the above I've learned some stuff that only makes sense if you think about it and if the earth is a globe.  My local TV station has a 1000 foot tower not far from where I'm currently living.  I used to work there 50 years ago.  The TV station spent a whole lot of money putting up that big tower because they knew that the higher they went the more watchers they could get and the more that they could charge for advertising.  A global earth model would mean that their nominal coverage are would be approximately 40 miles.  In a flat earth model that coverage would have been a whole lot more.  When I was flying my own private plane I would often cruise at about 7 to 9 thousand feet.  In those days (before GPS) I used the VHF VOR system for navigation.  Typically a VOR station could be used at about 100 miles at the altitudes I used.  This was due to the curvature of the earth.  A flat earth would have afforded me the luxury of tuning in a station near my destination, rather than flying from station to station.  When I went to sea I worked on large ships.  Usually the length was from 750 to 1000 feet.  Our height of eye was about 130 feet above sea level.  You could usually see the mast of another on coming large ship appear at about 15 miles away. We had the use of more than our eyes and a telescope.  The last ship had 3 separate radars.  Our 10cm radar would usually see the ship come over the horizon before we could see it with our eyes.  It would appear as a very weak target and grow in size and strength as we approached the other vessel.  You had to be a bit closer to see a smaller fishing boat.  That same radar could see Mt Fuji in Japan at a much larger distance because it was a lot higher.  Even mount Fuji would appear to sink into the sea as we departed Japan.  You would loose site of the port city way before you would loose side of the mountain, even though the mountain was farther away.  These types of personal experiences could not be reconciled with a flat earth theory.  Don't get me wrong, a flat earth would be a whole lot easier for everyone in a lot of ways, but unfortunately, my personal observations didn't match that theory.  I was never afraid of falling off the edge of the earth.  Maybe because as a kid, we lived overseas and traveled the world during vacations.  My sister picked up the same tendencies and was in Antarctica a couple of months ago and actually returned home without any difficulty.       

Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2018, 06:43:35 AM »
Therefore it seems that it's the responsibility of the supporters of that model to demonstrate what perspective does at long distances.

And when you ask me that question I point to perspective scenes such as railroad tracks and other scenes where things are meeting in the distance.

The response to this is "just because you can't see something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist..." LOL!

The burden is on you to demonstrate your unobservable position, and I think you know that to be true, and also know that your ultimate position to be weak, since you keep coming back here day after day.
The tracks stay the same distance apart, obviously.

Offline RonJ

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2018, 05:15:04 PM »
I came across this website and was originally surprised to see people who still believe the earth is flat.  I did a few quick 'back of the envelope' calculations to try to get a perspective on the situation.  Say the earth was the size of a basketball. To continue on with the comparison, a typical human would have to be the size of a virus.  A real virus is too small to be seen with the typical optical microscope.  If you were that virus your basketball 'earth' would look quite flat in any direction you chose to look. The virus could have been taught a flat earth curriculum as well.  In this hypothetical case it would not be irrational to believe in a flat earth.  Now assume that the virus would get on an airplane and fly to the other side of the basketball 'earth'.  Still the typical virus would experience little to change his perspective.  In both cases the Flat Earth paradigm would perfectly match the senses.  On a practical basis there would be little reason to believe anything else.  Now if that virus started to work for a company whose profits depended on hauling cargo from California to Shanghai but kept ending up in Hong Kong, then it wouldn't be too surprising if that virus might look into finding the reason for the difficulties.  After consulting with some classic virus scientists some navigational instruments were tried that were based on the radical global basketball design.  Even though these designs seemed 'crazy' at the time, they seemed to work and the company thrived.  The virus was promoted to chief engineer and could pay for his new car.  In this second case it would be completely irrational to ever again believe in a Flat Earth again.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2018, 12:33:04 AM »
Most people who have a regular land based job don't have any reason to even think about whether the earth is flat or round.  In my case the subject is vital to the jobs I've had in my 50 year career.  Now I'm a retired Merchant Marine officer and I sailed world wide.  I've been around the world a couple of times, in each direction.  Earlier I was considering being a airline pilot and did earn a commercial pilots license, but the shipping companies paid a whole lot more so I went to sea.  That doesn't mean that I didn't fly much.  I had my own electronics business for 23 years and flew my own airplane often on business.  The first five years of my career I worked for the local TV station as a transmitter engineer.  Having said all of the above I've learned some stuff that only makes sense if you think about it and if the earth is a globe.  My local TV station has a 1000 foot tower not far from where I'm currently living.  I used to work there 50 years ago.  The TV station spent a whole lot of money putting up that big tower because they knew that the higher they went the more watchers they could get and the more that they could charge for advertising.  A global earth model would mean that their nominal coverage are would be approximately 40 miles.  In a flat earth model that coverage would have been a whole lot more.  When I was flying my own private plane I would often cruise at about 7 to 9 thousand feet.  In those days (before GPS) I used the VHF VOR system for navigation.  Typically a VOR station could be used at about 100 miles at the altitudes I used.  This was due to the curvature of the earth.  A flat earth would have afforded me the luxury of tuning in a station near my destination, rather than flying from station to station.  When I went to sea I worked on large ships.  Usually the length was from 750 to 1000 feet.  Our height of eye was about 130 feet above sea level.  You could usually see the mast of another on coming large ship appear at about 15 miles away. We had the use of more than our eyes and a telescope.  The last ship had 3 separate radars.  Our 10cm radar would usually see the ship come over the horizon before we could see it with our eyes.  It would appear as a very weak target and grow in size and strength as we approached the other vessel.  You had to be a bit closer to see a smaller fishing boat.  That same radar could see Mt Fuji in Japan at a much larger distance because it was a lot higher.  Even mount Fuji would appear to sink into the sea as we departed Japan.  You would loose site of the port city way before you would loose side of the mountain, even though the mountain was farther away.  These types of personal experiences could not be reconciled with a flat earth theory.  Don't get me wrong, a flat earth would be a whole lot easier for everyone in a lot of ways, but unfortunately, my personal observations didn't match that theory.  I was never afraid of falling off the edge of the earth.  Maybe because as a kid, we lived overseas and traveled the world during vacations.  My sister picked up the same tendencies and was in Antarctica a couple of months ago and actually returned home without any difficulty.     

This video will contradict everything you've been saying as a 50 year player on da ocean.  I believe in Flat earth, I am land based and my IQ is above 130, I've owned my business for over 40 years, not having someone else sign my paycheck or rely on some bozo to tell me what to do. Bozo in bozo out.

Line of sight. 45 nautical miles weapons systems.....

You're washed up on the beach. The Earth is Flat and you've been brainwashed.

What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2018, 02:30:35 AM »
http://truthsetfreetv.com/declassified-document-reveals-that-russia-support-belief-in-a-firmament-and-a-flat-earth/

Recently these CIA documents were declassified and discuss Russians and the "firmament and flat earth".

Soon all will see. Get right with it folks !
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Offline RonJ

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #50 on: October 11, 2018, 03:51:29 AM »
I did listen to the entire talk radio show.  It was late at night and kind of reminded me of listening to Art Bell telling ghost stories.  All I can say is WOW.  I have no evidence, but would say that the navy guy was quite young. The guy did have all the lingo down pat and was a good talker.  I thought that he just had a cursory knowledge of some of the stuff he was talking about and used just enough of the lingo to make is seem that he was knowledgeable.  The show was quite entertaining for me and I laughed a lot.  All I can say is that I probably was working on radars, flying airplanes, and taking apart gyros long before that guy was born.  In my opinion, some of the stuff he said was just plain BS.  Other stuff had a hint of truth and understanding but still wasn't quite correct.   You are correct in saying that I'm now washed up on the beach but I don't mind being in retirement.  If you did read my previous post you will see that I also signed my own paycheck for 23 years and wasn't letting another bozo tell me what to do.  I sold out and went to sea because it was on my 'bucket list'.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #51 on: October 11, 2018, 02:24:36 PM »
I did listen to the entire talk radio show.  It was late at night and kind of reminded me of listening to Art Bell telling ghost stories.  All I can say is WOW.  I have no evidence, but would say that the navy guy was quite young. The guy did have all the lingo down pat and was a good talker.  I thought that he just had a cursory knowledge of some of the stuff he was talking about and used just enough of the lingo to make is seem that he was knowledgeable.  The show was quite entertaining for me and I laughed a lot.  All I can say is that I probably was working on radars, flying airplanes, and taking apart gyros long before that guy was born.  In my opinion, some of the stuff he said was just plain BS.  Other stuff had a hint of truth and understanding but still wasn't quite correct.   You are correct in saying that I'm now washed up on the beach but I don't mind being in retirement.  If you did read my previous post you will see that I also signed my own paycheck for 23 years and wasn't letting another bozo tell me what to do.  I sold out and went to sea because it was on my 'bucket list'.

I'm not sure why you would be anymore believable than him? You have pre-conceived after only an hour yet I've given you 4 days to slosh around here listening and analyzing your words. I'm in my mid 60's yet people think I'm 50. Don't judge by his voice, he is still in the Navy and under a very watchful eye as he explains the truth. Funny thing about you peeps on the globe, you don't bother to comment on the core of what he is saying. "line of sight" weapons system. Can't do that on globe, yet you ignore it. Carry on....

I believe it is you who is irrational for thinking people with normal intelligence will believe the devilish garbage in Globe Earth.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Offline RonJ

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #52 on: October 11, 2018, 02:52:05 PM »
Yes, you can do 'line of sight' on a globe.  The only difference is that the observable distances are shorter.  Even on a globe you can see another large ship 15 miles away.  In the navy you are under a 'watchful' eye while on the ship.  When sailors got off the ship they can do all kinds of strange things in foreign ports. Just ask the navy shore patrol.  I'll bet you that the interview was conducted while the guy was off the ship and under those circumstances, can say anything he wants so long as he doesn't disclose something of a classified nature. When I was working on navy ships I wouldn't tell just any 'land lubber' the whole truth.  It's to your advantage to let your enemies believe that you are an idiot when you may not be.  That guy did a good job of that.  Under those circumstances you really can't tell if what the guy said was what he really believed, or if he was just trying to put up a 'smoke screen'.  As far as that goes, I might just be trying to do the same thing myself.  I'm carrying on.

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Offline J-Man

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #53 on: October 11, 2018, 03:15:40 PM »
Yes, you can do 'line of sight' on a globe.  The only difference is that the observable distances are shorter.  Even on a globe you can see another large ship 15 miles away.  In the navy you are under a 'watchful' eye while on the ship.  When sailors got off the ship they can do all kinds of strange things in foreign ports. Just ask the navy shore patrol.  I'll bet you that the interview was conducted while the guy was off the ship and under those circumstances, can say anything he wants so long as he doesn't disclose something of a classified nature. When I was working on navy ships I wouldn't tell just any 'land lubber' the whole truth.  It's to your advantage to let your enemies believe that you are an idiot when you may not be.  That guy did a good job of that.  Under those circumstances you really can't tell if what the guy said was what he really believed, or if he was just trying to put up a 'smoke screen'.  As far as that goes, I might just be trying to do the same thing myself.  I'm carrying on.

You just double speak. @ 15 miles on a globe the ship would need to be 150 ft. high to see the top, yet you don't comment on the Loran document that specifically says line of sight is 400 miles. Nor do you speak of the CIA document that notes scientist claiming Flat Earth and Firmament like the creator has explained yet most ignore. Is there a fine line between ignore ignorance and irrational? I wonder.
What kind of person would devote endless hours posting scientific facts trying to correct the few retards who believe in the FE? I slay shitty little demons.

Offline RonJ

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Re: Is it irrational to believe Flat Earth?
« Reply #54 on: October 11, 2018, 04:32:04 PM »
You aren't too far off.  On a large container ship you can be standing between 130 and 150 above the waterline while on the bridge.  Our radar antennas are on a small tower even higher than that.  If we are approaching another container ship coming from the opposite direction it too could have a mast height approaching 200 feet above the water.  You are not reading the loran document correctly.  Loran uses low frequencies that will bounce off the earth's ionosphere, or firmament, if you choose to believe.  Lower frequencies have a much longer 'line of site' range.  As an amateur radio operator years ago I would try to contact Russian stations using morse code.  Sometimes the lower frequency propagation would be such that I would receive one signal from the direct route and another from the same place only from the other direction around the globe.  It was rare to hear this but when you did it was easy to tell.  The echo you heard was very distinctive.  Even as a kid in high school messing with electronics equipment I had indications of the global earth.   The only problem with any lower frequency station is that the physics of the situation limits the speed of any data transmission you wish to use.  To get the gigibit speeds you hear advertised all the time on TV you need microwave frequencies.  Microwaves are limited under most circumstances to line of site (global) distances.  That's why the antennas used are generally on tall tower, and those towers are spaced out in the 40 to 50 mile range. If you can get a tower on top of a hill it can help.  If I were the CIA I would also try and 'tweek' my enemies with mis-information especially if I knew that they could read my documents.  The dumber you can make your enemies think you are, the smarter you become.