[Ratboy]

I think I have a rather unique viewpoint that is going to be hard to argue with. I was born with a weak sense of being able to tell where north is. My grandfather had a definite strong ability. When I was young my father, grandfather and I were driving at night. There was no way to tell direction and this was time when cars did not have seatbelts let alone built in compasses. My grandfather was sleeping. This was out in the great prairies on a gravel road that looks like every other gravel road. Many roads now have identifiers at corners but there were none at this time. My grandfather wakes up and says "you are driving the wrong way." My dad calls him an old fool. At the first road sign, my father realizes he is going the wrong way. Rather than admit it, he turns into the next town and makes a bunch of random turns. He then gets going the right way. My grandfather had been silent for most of this time, but then he says "now you are going the right way." If someone told me that they can sense north and I could not, I would not believe them. I will also mention one time I was lost in the woods with my dad when I was young and he remembered to ask me to point to north. We were not lost for long.
So I do have a sense of north, but not as strong as my grandfather. In my life I have driven more than 1 million miles. I have been to 22 countries on all continents except Africa, South America, and Antarctica. I have flown places and driven to them both. I have calibrated my odometer on my car many times with those signs they have on the road. I have driven a lot of clunkers so they break down and I am forced to walk along highways. I have no doubt thet the distances I pace out (when you are walking for miles what else do you have to do) match the miles I have driven. I have no doubt that the distances I have driven match the distances trains claim to go and the speeds they go. I look at my watch a lot. I have no doubt that the airplanes I have flown in are going the speeds they claim. If it takes me 3 hours to drive somewhere and 25 minutes to fly, I have a pretty good trust that the speed the plane claims to be going is true.

I have a bad habit of leaving my watch in my home town time zone. So I know when the sun is overhead compared to where I came from. I have walked on the Artic Ocean (frozen) in the winter. I have seen 24 hour night. I have seen the light from the sun on a hill when it was noon on Jan 22nd but it was still 24 hr night where I was. I took a snowmobile up the hill and the sun was as big and normal looking just above the horizon when I was up the hill. I have dipped my toe in every ocean (6 by my count). I am always shocked at how fast the sun sets near the equator. I am used to long northern sunsets. I have been on the 17th hole on the golf course when the sun goes down in the north and still be able to finish the game (it was a little dark putting on the 18th green). I was driving in Panama and the person I was with wanted to catch a picture of the setting sun. It was still all above the horizon. I quickly pulled over at the next first safe place to park and the sun was already down, so no picture.

I have seen all these things. I have a sense of where north is. I know where the sun is at noon in 22 different countries (Australia and Fiji are south of the equator). I believe that when I fly somewhere and drive somewhere I am arriving at the same place. I do not believe it is some elaborate trick. Oh I have taken cruises too to places I have flown to. I have never felt that north was not where people were claiming it was (remember I can sense north).

I have a map on my wall with all the places I have been. I cannot see how a flat earth could explain what I have seen with my own eyes and get me to where I went in the time I took whether driving, flying, ship or train. How the sun is in the north in Sydney and the south in New York and everyone gets half sun and half dark over the year. I have driven at night with no lights because of the Aurora Borealis. I have seen the Aurora Australis. I don't need any book to tell me anything about the shape of the earth.
Another thing I just remembered.  Every farmer in the western US knows that the earth gets narrower as you go north.  Farms are divided along direction lines put there by surveyors.  In older areas, land is more random shaped.  So farmers know that there are less square miles of farm land as you get north (northern lines are not parallel they get narrower as you go north).  I saw that in Australia, the same thing happens except the earth gets smaller as you go south.  Farmers do not fall for conspiracies that defy what they can see.

[Evi1]

I don't think anyone is going to be able to come up with a real response that defies this.  There will be a smattering of conspiracy theories though.  I have seen narratives explaining contraction and explanation of the celestial bodies as well as their movement through the sky in circles.  You may also get flight time charts comparing the flight times between cites of the same distance throughout the world that mismatch taking no account for aircraft type, common local weather or flight practices in the region.  Be prepared to laugh, try not to insult them .  Good job!

[Tom Haws]

Great human interest story. And great personal observations of distances, travel times, and positions of the sun in unusual combinations of circumstances.

“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”

― Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad/Roughing It

[Ratboy]

I just thought I should add that when you see sunlight at the top of a hill it is always looking with the sun to your back. So the hill with the light at the top was farther from the sun that I was.  It took about 10 minutes to reach the top of the hill by snowmobile so that would mean about another 3 miles farther away from the sun than where it was still "night" assuming I traveled at 20 mph.  So if the sun looks like it goes down because it is just getting too far away, going 3 miles farther from it should not give me a view of a sun the same size as it is at the equator at noon.  Especially when it was night from where I left. And 3 miles is something like another 15,000 ft.  And to ask how I know how big the sun is, I had a sun filter as a kid and used to look at it directly all the time, watching the sun spots change on its surface and stuff like that.  If it was a different size, I would be able to tell.

[Ratboy]

I just thought I should add that when you see sunlight at the top of a hill it is always looking with the sun to your back. So the hill with the light at the top was farther from the sun that I was.  It took about 10 minutes to reach the top of the hill by snowmobile so that would mean about another 3 miles farther away from the sun than where it was still "night" assuming I traveled at 20 mph.  So if the sun looks like it goes down because it is just getting too far away, going 3 miles farther from it should not give me a view of a sun the same size as it is at the equator at noon.  Especially when it was night from where I left. And 3 miles is something like another 15,000 ft.  And to ask how I know how big the sun is, I had a sun filter as a kid and used to look at it directly all the time, watching the sun spots change on its surface and stuff like that.  If it was a different size, I would be able to tell.

I am sad that there is not much debate yet.  I made a little picture of my experience during the 24 hr night.  If I can go 15,000 feet away from the sun and up 50 feet and then see the sun, how high would the sun be?  I checked the internet and it claims that the sun is directly overhead on Jan 22 somewhere not too far from Concepcion Paraguay at noon EST.  Give or take.  Concepcion is supposed to be about 6000 miles south of where I was.  This seems reasonable to me because I have driven from Montreal Canada to Key West Florida which is a trip that is mostly south.  That trip was 2000 miles.  give or take.  I was a 3.5 hr flight north of Montreal.  So that puts me about 3500 miles north of Key West.  Concepcion Paraguay is no where near Key West, and I think people from Brazil (Colombia, Venezuela, Panama, Costa Rica, Mexico, etc.) can support me on this one.  So the 6000 miles seems very reasonable to me and it has to be close to the right answer.  Pick any number you want, but I would have to say that it has to be more than double the distance I drove, and three times that seems good to me.  I did the sketch to show a way to think of it.  You can see it is crude, but pick any numbers you like.  The hill was not that high but pick any number you like.  Maybe the snowmobile was going twice as fast as my guess, but it was faster than I could run.  Anyway, using my first assumptions, how high would the sun be?  20 miles.  Would anyone believe the sun is 20 miles up?  It makes a lot more sense that the sunlight was almost parallel with the ground where I was and was hitting Concepcion from directly overhead.  Or that if you looked at someone standing up in Concepcion and looked at me, we were at a 90 degree angle more or less.  This idea works particularly well if the sun is very far away.

[TomInAustin]

I think I have a rather unique viewpoint that is going to be hard to argue with. I was born with a weak sense of being able to tell where north is. My grandfather had a definite strong ability. When I was young my father, grandfather and I were driving at night. There was no way to tell direction and this was time when cars did not have seatbelts let alone built in compasses. My grandfather was sleeping. This was out in the great prairies on a gravel road that looks like every other gravel road. Many roads now have identifiers at corners but there were none at this time. My grandfather wakes up and says "you are driving the wrong way." My dad calls him an old fool. At the first road sign, my father realizes he is going the wrong way. Rather than admit it, he turns into the next town and makes a bunch of random turns. He then gets going the right way. My grandfather had been silent for most of this time, but then he says "now you are going the right way." If someone told me that they can sense north and I could not, I would not believe them. I will also mention one time I was lost in the woods with my dad when I was young and he remembered to ask me to point to north. We were not lost for long.
So I do have a sense of north, but not as strong as my grandfather. In my life I have driven more than 1 million miles. I have been to 22 countries on all continents except Africa, South America, and Antarctica. I have flown places and driven to them both. I have calibrated my odometer on my car many times with those signs they have on the road. I have driven a lot of clunkers so they break down and I am forced to walk along highways. I have no doubt thet the distances I pace out (when you are walking for miles what else do you have to do) match the miles I have driven. I have no doubt that the distances I have driven match the distances trains claim to go and the speeds they go. I look at my watch a lot. I have no doubt that the airplanes I have flown in are going the speeds they claim. If it takes me 3 hours to drive somewhere and 25 minutes to fly, I have a pretty good trust that the speed the plane claims to be going is true.

I have a bad habit of leaving my watch in my home town time zone. So I know when the sun is overhead compared to where I came from. I have walked on the Artic Ocean (frozen) in the winter. I have seen 24 hour night. I have seen the light from the sun on a hill when it was noon on Jan 22nd but it was still 24 hr night where I was. I took a snowmobile up the hill and the sun was as big and normal looking just above the horizon when I was up the hill. I have dipped my toe in every ocean (6 by my count). I am always shocked at how fast the sun sets near the equator. I am used to long northern sunsets. I have been on the 17th hole on the golf course when the sun goes down in the north and still be able to finish the game (it was a little dark putting on the 18th green). I was driving in Panama and the person I was with wanted to catch a picture of the setting sun. It was still all above the horizon. I quickly pulled over at the next first safe place to park and the sun was already down, so no picture.

I have seen all these things. I have a sense of where north is. I know where the sun is at noon in 22 different countries (Australia and Fiji are south of the equator). I believe that when I fly somewhere and drive somewhere I am arriving at the same place. I do not believe it is some elaborate trick. Oh I have taken cruises too to places I have flown to. I have never felt that north was not where people were claiming it was (remember I can sense north).

I have a map on my wall with all the places I have been. I cannot see how a flat earth could explain what I have seen with my own eyes and get me to where I went in the time I took whether driving, flying, ship or train. How the sun is in the north in Sydney and the south in New York and everyone gets half sun and half dark over the year. I have driven at night with no lights because of the Aurora Borealis. I have seen the Aurora Australis. I don't need any book to tell me anything about the shape of the earth.
Another thing I just remembered.  Every farmer in the western US knows that the earth gets narrower as you go north.  Farms are divided along direction lines put there by surveyors.  In older areas, land is more random shaped.  So farmers know that there are less square miles of farm land as you get north (northern lines are not parallel they get narrower as you go north).  I saw that in Australia, the same thing happens except the earth gets smaller as you go south.  Farmers do not fall for conspiracies that defy what they can see.

Great post and totally fits with FE methods of observations.   

[Roger G]

I just thought I should add that when you see sunlight at the top of a hill it is always looking with the sun to your back. So the hill with the light at the top was farther from the sun that I was.  It took about 10 minutes to reach the top of the hill by snowmobile so that would mean about another 3 miles farther away from the sun than where it was still "night" assuming I traveled at 20 mph.  So if the sun looks like it goes down because it is just getting too far away, going 3 miles farther from it should not give me a view of a sun the same size as it is at the equator at noon.  Especially when it was night from where I left. And 3 miles is something like another 15,000 ft.  And to ask how I know how big the sun is, I had a sun filter as a kid and used to look at it directly all the time, watching the sun spots change on its surface and stuff like that.  If it was a different size, I would be able to tell.

I am sad that there is not much debate yet.  I made a little picture of my experience during the 24 hr night.  If I can go 15,000 feet away from the sun and up 50 feet and then see the sun, how high would the sun be?  I checked the internet and it claims that the sun is directly overhead on Jan 22 somewhere not too far from Concepcion Paraguay at noon EST.  Give or take.  Concepcion is supposed to be about 6000 miles south of where I was.  This seems reasonable to me because I have driven from Montreal Canada to Key West Florida which is a trip that is mostly south.  That trip was 2000 miles.  give or take.  I was a 3.5 hr flight north of Montreal.  So that puts me about 3500 miles north of Key West.  Concepcion Paraguay is no where near Key West, and I think people from Brazil (Colombia, Venezuela, Panama, Costa Rica, Mexico, etc.) can support me on this one.  So the 6000 miles seems very reasonable to me and it has to be close to the right answer.  Pick any number you want, but I would have to say that it has to be more than double the distance I drove, and three times that seems good to me.  I did the sketch to show a way to think of it.  You can see it is crude, but pick any numbers you like.  The hill was not that high but pick any number you like.  Maybe the snowmobile was going twice as fast as my guess, but it was faster than I could run.  Anyway, using my first assumptions, how high would the sun be?  20 miles.  Would anyone believe the sun is 20 miles up?  It makes a lot more sense that the sunlight was almost parallel with the ground where I was and was hitting Concepcion from directly overhead.  Or that if you looked at someone standing up in Concepcion and looked at me, we were at a 90 degree angle more or less.  This idea works particularly well if the sun is very far away.

An excellent summing up of your experiences and sadly one that is unlikely to get any discussion with those who believe in a flat earth, as there is really nothing they can disagree with. The only exception may be from Tom Bishop if he has a mind to summon up some magic perspective ideas.

Roger

[devils advocate]

Very interesting post! There are a few animals that demonstrate the ability to navigate using the magnetic fields. Certain sharks, birds and I think some insects, so it's not such a great leap to believe a human could have the gift. Enjoy it! 

[Dr David Thork]

Can you sense Geographic North or Magnetic North?

If you claim geographic, you may as well be claiming to be able to read minds or cast spells. There is no way to 'sense' geographic North.

There is a slim chance you may be able to pick out magnetic North, but that would be very weird indeed. Some people have a greater quantity of magnetite located in the ethmoid bone behind the nose. This may give them a good sense of direction, but not a sense of any particular direction. And for good reason. You'd feel it every time you walked under a pylon. You'd be confused by the electricity running through the walls of your own home. Turning your toaster on would convince you North had moved and a powerful magnet would turn your face inside out. As emotive and articulate as this account is, I don't believe it. If you could detect minute magnetic fields, you could detect current.

I would hedge that your sense of direction comes from your ears and like an INS, you can be more sensitive to the liquid in your ears and know where you came from or where you are going, but not point to north if you don't know where North is to begin with. I too am able to do this to a rough extent. I am so confident it is your ears and not magnetite I have devised a little experiment.

Ask someone you know to blind fold you and drive you to a strange location. Once there, with blindfold still on, spin round and round and round until you are dizzy. Then, blindfold still on, stand up and point to north. If you can do it 3 out of 3 times, ring up your local hospital and get a brain scan. They'll want to document the freak that you are.

[Roger G]

 In my life I have driven more than 1 million miles. I have been to 22 countries on all continents except Africa, South America, and Antarctica. I have flown places and driven to them both. I have calibrated my odometer on my car many times with those signs they have on the road. I have driven a lot of clunkers so they break down and I am forced to walk along highways. I have no doubt thet the distances I pace out (when you are walking for miles what else do you have to do) match the miles I have driven. I have no doubt that the distances I have driven match the distances trains claim to go and the speeds they go. I look at my watch a lot. I have no doubt that the airplanes I have flown in are going the speeds they claim. If it takes me 3 hours to drive somewhere and 25 minutes to fly, I have a pretty good trust that the speed the plane claims to be going is true.

I have a bad habit of leaving my watch in my home town time zone. So I know when the sun is overhead compared to where I came from. I have walked on the Artic Ocean (frozen) in the winter. I have seen 24 hour night. I have seen the light from the sun on a hill when it was noon on Jan 22nd but it was still 24 hr night where I was. I took a snowmobile up the hill and the sun was as big and normal looking just above the horizon when I was up the hill. I have dipped my toe in every ocean (6 by my count). I am always shocked at how fast the sun sets near the equator. I am used to long northern sunsets. I have been on the 17th hole on the golf course when the sun goes down in the north and still be able to finish the game (it was a little dark putting on the 18th green). I was driving in Panama and the person I was with wanted to catch a picture of the setting sun. It was still all above the horizon. I quickly pulled over at the next first safe place to park and the sun was already down, so no picture.

I have a map on my wall with all the places I have been. I cannot see how a flat earth could explain what I have seen with my own eyes and get me to where I went in the time I took whether driving, flying, ship or train. How the sun is in the north in Sydney and the south in New York and everyone gets half sun and half dark over the year. I have driven at night with no lights because of the Aurora Borealis. I have seen the Aurora Australis. I don't need any book to tell me anything about the shape of the earth.
Another thing I just remembered.  Every farmer in the western US knows that the earth gets narrower as you go north.  Farms are divided along direction lines put there by surveyors.  In older areas, land is more random shaped.  So farmers know that there are less square miles of farm land as you get north (northern lines are not parallel they get narrower as you go north).  I saw that in Australia, the same thing happens except the earth gets smaller as you go south.  Farmers do not fall for conspiracies that defy what they can see.

Great post and totally fits with FE methods of observations.   

Whether or not the OP can sense north or not is a bit irrelevant and I quite like the Thork explanation. The other points the OP made though are very relevant to this forum in my opinion.

Roger

[devils advocate]

To be fair Baby Thork he does state his is only a weak ability, certainty compared to his grandfather. Maybe your 100% success rate is set too high?

Also the spinning round, whilst a fair request should be tailored slightly. When I am dizzy even the simple task of walking in a straight line is a challenge. By all means spin him to ensure he retains no visual clues but then permit him time to recover (still blind folded) before the test.

[Tom Haws]

Ask someone you know to blind fold you and drive you to a strange location. Once there, with blindfold still on, spin round and round and round until you are dizzy. Then, blindfold still on, stand up and point to north. If you can do it 3 out of 3 times, ring up your local hospital and get a brain scan. They'll want to document the freak that you are.

This exercise would be of limited value. Ratboy didn't say he can sense north blindfolded. For all he knows, sight is the major component of his ability to sense north. Related to this, while I am sympathetic to the aims of the debunkers of things like dowsing, I disagree that the debunkers are demonstrating that dowsing in the field has no value. It may in fact be impossible to devise a meaningful measurement of Ratboy's and his family's north-finding ability.

[Hmmm]

(...) There are a few animals that demonstrate the ability to navigate using the magnetic fields. Certain sharks, birds and I think some insects, so it's not such a great leap to believe a human could have the gift. Enjoy it! 

For some reason this ability reminded me of little boys who can magnetize metal spoons to their bodies, and also of psychokinesis in general...

Ratboy, when i read your post, i immediately thought about this:
your grandad might have had an unconsciously developed version of psychokinesis ( - or you could say 'a form of magnetokinesis'...)

...Btw empathy in telekinesis-related practices is pretty much automation of the whole 'energy work' !...

[Dr David Thork]

Also the spinning round, whilst a fair request should be tailored slightly. When I am dizzy even the simple task of walking in a straight line is a challenge. By all means spin him to ensure he retains no visual clues but then permit him time to recover (still blind folded) before the test.

That would be fine. I only request that the liquid in his ears spins so fast as to disorientate him and rule that out as the way he has a good sense of direction. Once the dizziness stops and his 'datum' is reset, he can use his superpowers to point North.

This exercise would be of limited value. Ratboy didn't say he can sense north blindfolded. For all he knows, sight is the major component of his ability to sense north.

Well now it isn't a 'sense'. I can see which side of a tree moss is growing, look for satellite dishes on houses pointing south, know the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, read sign posts, find the North star, know the moon also rises east and sets west, or even feel the westerly winds in my home town on my face and not have to remove the blindfold. If you can use sight, I have this 'gift' as much as the next man.

[Ratboy]

Regarding my superpowers, I can accept that it is some good sense of direction.  I do know that National Geographic (Sept 27, 2007) reported on experiments of migrating birds and concluded that they could "see" magnetic fields. I do not seem to care about east, west or south and figure out where they are from north.  I explain it that North "looks uphill" to me.  It could all be my imagination.  But I never get a GPS when I rent a car. 
Sometimes I do get totally confused and insist north is not where it really is.  It just looks wrong for a long time and I have to adjust.  I had trouble in Australia suggesting maybe the sun is all I am using as a clue.  Although it would not explain how do tell at night.  I do know that when I picture memories in my mind the direction I am looking is typically in my memory.  Does everyone do that?

Whether is it geographic north or magnetic north, they are pretty much the same direction where I live so I do not know the answer to that.  As a stupid kid, I doubt I was picking up on the usual visual clues of moss on trees and my father was unable to do that. The sun is not always out and it is surprising how easy it is to get lost in the woods.  I have tried to show someone the moss trick and the trees around us had moss all the way around.  I looked like a fool trying to show them how not to get lost that way.
I do not know what an INS is so I do not know if that is relevant.  I sure hope an OP is not an insult! 
I do not want to encourage people to believe stuff that is silly.  Let us say that I am only imagining my superpower.  I do not think that this super power is necessary for the rest of my argument, however.
Here is something that I just remembered. I do know that when I saw the noon sun on Jan 22 it was not exactly where I expected.  I flew to the location a few months earlier and had never seen a map of the place.  I had never seen the sun in those two months.  I had seen the north star so that should have oriented me to where true north was.  But when I saw the sun it was clockwise to where I expected it to be.  Where I thought what felt to be the opposite of north, which is where the noon sun would be, was something like 20 degrees off.  I just looked up where the North Magnetic Pole is and it agrees with this mistake, that is looking true north, magnetic north is counter clockwise by what looks like 30 degrees.  It is probably just a coincidence.
I only half believe it.  But it should not distract from the story too much.  North is probably north wherever the locals claim it is.  If I fail the test, it should not prove that there is a conspiracy about where maps claim north is.  I do not want the history of cartography to hinge on my wacky claim.   

[Dr David Thork]

When you lie in bed, which way does your bed face? I'd imagine someone attuned to North would hate having an East-West bed for example. And if you are in a hotel, are you always aware of which direction the bed is orientated? IE inside, not outside feeling about direction?

[Ratboy]

And another story I just recalled.  Back in the early 1900s there were not a lot of people around out in western NA.  The closest neighbor to my grandfather was 50 miles away.  He would walk/run there, in the snow in the winter.  As you may know, a little breeze makes for a hard time to tell direction in blowing snow.  He knew, to a good enough degree, what direction to head. Go there one day and come back the next day.  Tracks do not always stick around and there are only so many hours of light.  I would more believe a built in compass in that scenario than trusting a good sense of direction.  There are not a lot of clues on the bald prairie, especially if the wind is blowing.  (well you could assume the wind is generally blowing from the westish direction). Now for this story, I was not there and can only go by the recounts of relatives, none of whom ever told me the story did not happen.  The location of the homestead and the neighbor is something I did verify as 48 miles as the crow flies.  My dad was right that he was a fool.

[Ratboy]

Regarding the direction of the bed, mine is currently with the head at the north, but that is simply a function of the layout of the house and what makes the most sense in the master bedroom.  I sometimes sleep well and sometimes not.  I drink a lot of coffee at any time of day and I never paid attention to how that correlates with my sleep.  I know that pasta is conducive to your body making the right precursors to neurotransmitters that can help you sleep but I do not actually do anything about it, or notice what I ate and how  that impacted my sleep. So I would say that I generally know what direction a bed is facing but I never thought about if that impacted my sleep.  I never thought about turning a bed one way or another before I go to sleep.  I do know that I am facing north right now in the room I am in without having to think about it.  We did some team building thing at work where the guy told us to spin around 3 times.  Then he said to point to north.  I did but most of the other 40 people were pointing in random directions.  One guy said "how are we supposed to know."  We were not supposed to know but the point of the exercise was to show how people need guidance to work together and they will otherwise all point off in different directions. 

[Ratboy]

I just realized that no one really thought about my stories or drawing enough to notice I made a big mistake.  When trying to model where the sun would be on the flat earth, I put that the light was shining from above and therefore the sun had to be only 20 miles up.  Actually thinking about my drawing, I had to go higher to see the sun not just far enough away to get the hill in front of me out of the way.  So I went 3 miles out and 50 feet higher to see the sun.  This means the sun was approximately 20 miles under Paraguay not above.
Pretty hard to do that!  I attached a revised drawing that I was too lazy to make pretty since it seems I only debate against round earthers here anyway.  20 miles below Paraguay's surface!

[Hmmm]

Ratboy, what you're saying in your post  reminds me of videos of sunsets/sunrises in Japan (or somewhere near Japan):












And whether this is actually a "mirage" (strange refractions of light in Earth's atmosphere??)  or not, it just looks very (f***ing) odd visually!!   Looks like if the sun is some kind of plasmahologram.  Just like the moon...
Sometimes the sun in those videos looks like an orange (fruit). And sometimes the sun has a color of a plum, like in the 3rd video i linked here.
In these sunrise/sunset videos, when the sun almost finished setting "below the horizon", it sometimes produces a green flash at the sun disk's peak.
...And if you look closely (optically zoom in) at the sun while it's setting/rising, you might notice that the upper side of sun's disk kinda "camouflages" itself or kinda disappears, "reduces", "shrinks" itself, like some kind of gaseous, plasma substance....And that's what i call "JUST THE REALLY WEIRD STUFF ABOUT OUR SUN" !!

How 'heliocentric Earth' model supporters would explain that?! Again, with "refraction" and other BS excuses ?!

my reply to "THE SUN " topic
my reply to "What are stars?" topic
"Is THIS the sun/moon/stars/planets?" topic

...I'm not forgetting that all those videos i see on youtube could potentially be modified "on-the-fly" by using some advanced mixed technology, like "Augmented Reality" + "Diminished Reality" + "Mediated Reality"...Oh yeah - my thoughts are paranoid, and i'm paranoid as hell about this!...


...People should experiment with: traveling around the world; shooting on camera both the sun and the moon with UV/IR/X-Ray/Thermal camera sensors/filters; play with Inverse/Negative, Deboss  filters in a video editor in order to capture the underlying/hidden textures of objects in a video!!!!....

(Example of 'metal embossing' of a flower)

(using deboss/emboss effect to discover hidden stuff (UFOs?) )

And people should definitely try out "advanced search operators" to learn how to find specific information they need much-much quicker!...


Please, no deja vu`s, my Absolute self. No deja vu`s anymore!!