Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2013, 04:49:33 PM »
This entire discussion is exactly why I started by asking you what kind of evidence would be sufficient to prove that this case is different so that we can cut to the chase and talk about that evidence.  You know, rather than making a bunch of inductive arguments, speculation, and argument by analogy.  But I forgot that those are your only modes of argument and logic.

Please, though, continue with analogies and inductive reasoning.  Those things suddenly become logically sound and strong arguments when you make them.
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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2013, 09:01:53 PM »
Tom, what evidence do you think would speak directly to SpaceX's status as a private firm?  What evidence do you think would be sufficient to confirm that SpaceX is private?

If the technology cannot be reproduced by others freely, and is controlled, then the claims that such things have been built, or can be built, are dubious.

Rocket engines can be reproduced by others.  You can go to engineering schools and learn how to build them.  You've only proven that the technology cannot be freely exported to other nations.

If, however, the claims are as dubious as you say, then what kind of evidence would be sufficient to settle one way or the other?  What kind of evidence do you think would be sufficient to confirm their claims?

SpaceX, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and other rocket designers are all government contractors, operating under government regulation, with facilities on government bases, under direct supervision of government managers. There is no implicit trust of transparency or independence.

In fact, the government uses most of these contracting companies as temp agencies. While you might work for Lockheed Martin by name, the actual work you do for, say the Department of Defense, is done on DOD facilities and under the direct supervision of the government manager. There may be a small Lockheed Martin structure, where you report to your Lockheed Martin supervisor, who then reports to the government manager, but the environment is the same. The government calls the shots, not your contracting company.

Can you provide evidence that any of these things are true of SpaceX?  What evidence do you think would be sufficient to confirm that SpaceX is a private firm?

None of this applies to anything that I talked about in the OP because SpaceX was hired by a private, foreign telecom firm.  That's the point of the OP.  A private company hired another private company to put a satellite into orbit.  It was a success.

That SpaceX was once hired by NASA is irrelevant.  There is a large body of evidence documenting their company's history as a private firm.

That SpaceX is regulated by the government is irrelevant.  So is GM.  So is every business in America.

All you've contributed to this thread so far is weak inductive reasoning.

e: my apologies for the double post.  i thought i was editing my previous post, but i guess i wasn't paying attention to what i was doing.  whoops.
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Offline spank86

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2013, 11:42:59 PM »
Quote
Analog computers, digital computers, or digital differential analyzers designed or modified for use in the systems in Item 1 (see § 121.1, Category XI (a)(6), having either of the following characteristics:

   (a) Rated for continuous operation at temperature from below minus 45 degrees C to above plus 55 degrees C; or

   (b) Designed as ruggedized or "radiation hardened".

shoulda quit while you were "ahead", controlled NOT banned.

As evidence by the fact that many companies including British Telecom (used to anyway, they were a bit crap) use military laptops for their workforce.

Firstly, British regulations are different than American regulations, and hardened computer chips may be free to everyone there. I don't know or care to check out.

Secondly, telecoms are all government contractors, and may have access to that sort of thing. I know that AT&T, at least, has significant business with the government.

No, no we aren't government contractors, at least not in that sense and I'm the only one in about 40miles who even has security clearance. Of course telecoms operators sell to the government, governments tend to have phones but that's not usually quite like being a government contractor.
I suppose the Automobile Association (tow trucks) are in on the scam too since they also purchased the same laptops for a while.




What if a company claimed to have invented a car which could go 800 mph, but the technology was conveniently proprietary or out of reach fro others to reproduce?

well that would be pretty much what I would expect at this point, we have reached the point where most new advances are pretty complicated and if someone's just invented something then it stands to reason it would be propriatory, in what situation would it not (other than stupidity/charity)?

Moller International has been claiming to have a working sky car for many years now, and is only waiting on a few more big investments before they can begin production.

If the technology cannot be reproduced by others freely, and is controlled, then the claims that such things have been built, or can be built, are dubious.

unless of course you see the prototype flying around, which is what tends to happen sooner or later if these companies actually want money.

There are very few people asking for money and claiming to have already built something that they have no physical evidence of.

On the other hand there are a lot of charlatans around claiming that they can do things with money but have NO evidence (plus plenty with plans that would work no doubt).

I really don't see your point? The technology that can create badly working expensive "skycars" has been around for ages, what we're waiting for is something cheaper and a lot more efficient/controllable.

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Offline pilot172

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2014, 01:05:12 PM »
of course America is the only country to have orbital capabilities no one else does right

1  Soviet Union[c] Sputnik 1 Sputnik-PS Baikonur, Soviet Union (today Kazakhstan) 4 October 1957
2  United States[d] Explorer 1 Juno I Cape Canaveral, United States 1 February 1958
3  France[f] Astérix Diamant A Hammaguir, Algeria 26 November 1965
4  Japan Ōsumi Lambda-4S Uchinoura, Japan 11 February 1970
5  China Dong Fang Hong I Long March 1 Jiuquan, China 24 April 1970
6  United Kingdom[g] Prospero Black Arrow Woomera, Australia 28 October 1971
— European Space Agency[h] CAT-1 Ariane 1 Kourou, French Guiana 24 December 1979
7  India Rohini D1 SLV Sriharikota, India 18 July 1980
8  Israel Ofeq 1 Shavit Palmachim, Israel 19 September 1988
—  Ukraine[c] Strela-3 (x6, Russian) Tsyklon-3 Plesetsk, Russia 28 September 1991
—  Russia[c] Kosmos 2175 Soyuz-U Plesetsk, Russia 21 January 1992
9  Iran [j] Omid Safir-1A Semnan, Iran 2 February 2009
10  North Korea Kwangmyŏngsŏng-3 Unit 2 Unha-3 Sohae, North Korea 12 December 2012
I copied that off Wikipedia and the woomera test site is open for rocket launches by the general public not everything is american
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Offline jroa

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2014, 05:17:49 AM »
lol, North Korea can't even feed its people, let alone successfully launch a satellite. 

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2014, 11:26:16 AM »
lol, North Korea can't even feed its people, let alone successfully launch a satellite. 

I feel dumber for having read this.
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Offline markjo

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2014, 01:42:46 PM »
lol, North Korea can't even feed its people, let alone successfully launch a satellite.
What does one have to do with the other?  ???
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2014, 04:05:45 PM »
lol, North Korea can't even feed its people, let alone successfully launch a satellite.

By this logic, NK can't do anything more complex than feeding its population.
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Offline pilot172

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2014, 11:13:38 AM »
lol, North Korea can't even feed its people, let alone successfully launch a satellite. 

how about india, china and the soviet union now Russia, are they all incapable of launching rockets as well
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Offline jroa

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2014, 05:53:08 PM »
They can all launch rockets.  They have also all found that sustained orbit is impossible. 

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2014, 06:25:20 PM »
They can all launch rockets.  They have also all found that sustained orbit is impossible. 

Citation required.
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Offline pilot172

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2014, 12:43:43 PM »
yes all 54 of indias satellites and all 140 of chinas satellites were all faked
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Offline jroa

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #72 on: April 17, 2014, 06:52:37 PM »
They can all launch rockets.  They have also all found that sustained orbit is impossible. 

Citation required.

Are you saying that you don't think they can launch rockets? 

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Offline jroa

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2014, 06:53:10 PM »
yes all 54 of indias satellites and all 140 of chinas satellites were all faked

I did not say they are fake.  They are just not in orbit. 

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #74 on: April 17, 2014, 07:19:57 PM »
yes all 54 of indias satellites and all 140 of chinas satellites were all faked

I did not say they are fake.  They are just not in orbit. 

Where are they then?
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Offline jroa

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #75 on: April 17, 2014, 07:30:44 PM »
yes all 54 of indias satellites and all 140 of chinas satellites were all faked

I did not say they are fake.  They are just not in orbit. 

Where are they then?

Are you completely new here?  I only ask because every question you ask is very basic.  Do you think I come here to answer questions about what color the grass is?  This is not yahoo answers, and I know you have been with us for years.  At least ask a question that challenges me and does not bore me.  I would expect this from a noob.  I know you have probably seen two dozen threads discussing what satellites may or may not be. 

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #76 on: April 17, 2014, 07:41:43 PM »
yes all 54 of indias satellites and all 140 of chinas satellites were all faked

I did not say they are fake.  They are just not in orbit. 

Where are they then?

Are you completely new here?  I only ask because every question you ask is very basic.  Do you think I come here to answer questions about what color the grass is?  This is not yahoo answers, and I know you have been with us for years.  At least ask a question that challenges me and does not bore me.  I would expect this from a noob.  I know you have probably seen two dozen threads discussing what satellites may or may not be. 

I ask basic questions, because I want a basic answer.  An answer that I do not think has ever been given on this site.  It is good to get these things in writing so it can be referred to later.  Are you talking about stratellites?

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Offline jroa

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2014, 07:44:00 PM »
Statellites and pseudollites.  I know you've seen these threads before. 

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Offline markjo

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2014, 08:22:18 PM »
They can all launch rockets.  They have also all found that sustained orbit is impossible. 

Citation required.

Are you saying that you don't think they can launch rockets?

I believe that he was asking for a citation for your statement about sustained orbit being impossible.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: SpaceX commercial satellite launch
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2014, 08:41:07 PM »
They can all launch rockets.  They have also all found that sustained orbit is impossible. 

Citation required.

Are you saying that you don't think they can launch rockets?

I believe that he was asking for a citation for your statement about sustained orbit being impossible.

This.  Also there is no thread on pseudo or stratelites on tfes.org. As such noobs would have no idea what we are talking about.
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