Offline mtnman

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High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« on: November 04, 2017, 09:11:00 PM »
Saw this YouTube video of a amateur high altitude balloon launch. I have seen these things debated before regarding the horizon looking flat, or round, or whatever. There is much depending on the camera and lens and field of view, so I am making no claim either way on this.

What I find interesting about this is the view of the moon, and the sun rise.

The launch was from Santa Nella, CA at 6/21/2016 03:24:38 local time. According to timeanddate.com, on that date the sun rise would have been at 05:48 and the moon would have been one day past full.

In the video, the full moon can be seen before the sun rises. Being just past full, it is oriented in the opposite side of the sky from the sun (once it rises). Even though the moon is nearly as far from the sun as possible, we can clearly see that the sun is lighting the moon, but we can not see the sun. Just as expected on round Earth, not possible on flat Earth.

The sun rise is seen at 05:06 on the video. This is 41 minutes earlier than predicted by timeanddate.com. At a higher altitude the sun rise would be earlier, just as expected on round Earth, not possible on flat Earth.

The sun rises above the horizon. At altitude there is nothing to block the view to explain how the sun came above some imagined vanishing point.

This all makes sense on a round Earth. Video links are below.

Full video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxBid6YwoHs

The full video is over two hours long. Here are some shortcut links/

Example of view of moon, pre sun rise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxBid6YwoHs&t=1562s
Sun rise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxBid6YwoHs&t=6149s
Example of view of moon, post sun rise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxBid6YwoHs&t=9351s



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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2017, 09:57:34 PM »
The comment section is a crazy circle jerk of FEs. Wow.

Anyways, excellent video. Not only does it clearly show the Earth's curve, but how going higher allows you to see further, which doesn't make much sense on a FE.
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

Offline mtnman

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2017, 10:16:11 PM »
The comment section is a crazy circle jerk of FEs. Wow.

Anyways, excellent video. Not only does it clearly show the Earth's curve, but how going higher allows you to see further, which doesn't make much sense on a FE.
Yes, I stayed away from the comment section on that one.

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Online junker

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2017, 01:45:32 AM »
Looks like a spotlight from above coming into view.

Offline mtnman

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2017, 03:50:03 AM »
At what point? That comment in response to a two hour video. Would you call that a low content post?

Are you referring to the sun rise? If so, I don't know how that could be called a spot light.

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Offline nickrulercreator

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2017, 03:50:51 AM »
Looks like a spotlight from above coming into view.

Agreed with mtnman. What timestamp shows this?
This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today.

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Offline xenotolerance

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2017, 05:46:46 AM »
Tom Bishop had this to say about the same video:

further, curvature appears even in high altitude photography taken at night, so the page's explanation fails twice.

e.g.

High contrast light of the sun blends into the earth: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1oZyNrUqyAfcY2EXYBXIaEyuZetCnbRCcQx0xZ7rYnp4/edit

Also, throwing out some optics buzzwords does not prove your point at all. In fact, drawing some lines on there was extremely helpful. It shows the curvature goes the other way - if the circle of the sun's light was the source of curvature in high altitude photos, then the bright light should have a clear curve away from the sun, not concave into it like the video shows.

The foreground picture clearly shows the bright light of the sun blending into the earth to create an inconsistent horizon.

It doesn't look the slightest bit like a spotlight coming into view. The clear, consistent, visible line between darkness and light is curved the wrong direction for that to be the case.

also, it couldn't be at the horizon, were it 3000 miles high and some 6000 miles away. it would be ~22° above it.

Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2017, 04:35:17 PM »
Looks like a spotlight from above coming into view.
Isn't the point of the 'spotlight' theory that you can't see light from the sun unless you are within the beam of the spotlight?

If the earth were flat and you could see the light from a spotlight sun from a balloon why could you not see it from the ground?
We generally accept evidence from all  sources.

The only evidence for Round Earth celestial accuracy (assuming that timeanddate is even based on RET) is the evidence you collected with your friends last month?

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2017, 03:28:48 AM »
This same amateur balloon guy has posted similar videos in daylight that clearly show both earth curvature AND that the lens on the camera is not distorting the horizon.

We didn't get any responses to that one from any of the FE'ers - we presume that they had no answers and had therefore gone into hiding as usual when this happens.

Even in this video - in the last few minutes, you can see the dead straight section of the freeway next to the airport isn't being bent into a curve by the camera lens.

I'd presume that the general response from FE'ers would have to be to put this hobbyist into the "NASA Conspiracy" bucket and claim that it's faked CGI imagery.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Offline mtnman

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 04:15:45 AM »
It's getting little boring, posting simple logical questions and the only real responses come from other RE believers.

Wouldn't you think that they should see a pattern of how difficult it is for them to answer basic questions? Maybe they think we will stop asking if they stop responding. Would probably work I guess.


Offline 3DGeek

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2017, 01:38:47 PM »
It's getting little boring, posting simple logical questions and the only real responses come from other RE believers.

Wouldn't you think that they should see a pattern of how difficult it is for them to answer basic questions? Maybe they think we will stop asking if they stop responding. Would probably work I guess.

That is the pattern here.  There are at least a dozen concrete proofs that the earth cannot possibly be flat that I've posted here - and in all but a couple of them, we reach a point where the FE'ers are boxed into a corner - and they simply ignore the post and watch it gradually sink off the bottom of the page so that they don't have to think about it anymore.

They hope that the RE'ers involved will get bored and leave - so they can go back to posting bullshit answers to people who come here genuinely wanting to know if FET is plausible.

Sadly, one of their number (Tom Bishop) pissed me off by claiming that my daughter is a murderer (because she served time in the US Navy - and everyone in the Navy is (apparently) a murderer) - and then refused to retract that claim...so I am now devoting a small chunk of my free time to telling everyone who comes here about the ways we know that FET is all a pack of lies...I'm not going to give up...and I'm smart enough to defeat everything that the FE'ers claim.

I plan to be a continual thorn in their sides and to not allow bullshit to be propagated without a contrary viewpoint.

Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Offline mtnman

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2017, 03:15:05 PM »
That's a shameful thing to say. Thanks for her service the the USN and thanks for your service to the truth and reality.


Offline Mark_1984

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2017, 05:10:01 AM »
Looks like a spotlight from above coming into view.
Isn't the point of the 'spotlight' theory that you can't see light from the sun unless you are within the beam of the spotlight?

If the earth were flat and you could see the light from a spotlight sun from a balloon why could you not see it from the ground?

Yes, according to flat earth 'spotlight' theory, as you go higher, the sunrise would be later because the beam width narrows as you get closer to the light source.
According to round earth theory, the sun rise gets earlier.  Guess which happened ?

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2017, 05:13:54 AM »
Looks like a spotlight from above coming into view.
Isn't the point of the 'spotlight' theory that you can't see light from the sun unless you are within the beam of the spotlight?

If the earth were flat and you could see the light from a spotlight sun from a balloon why could you not see it from the ground?

Yes, according to flat earth 'spotlight' theory, as you go higher, the sunrise would be later because the beam width narrows as you get closer to the light source.
According to round earth theory, the sun rise gets earlier.  Guess which happened ?

The question the FE'ers don't like you to ask is how the moon is lit by the beam of spotlight sun at night...and if it isn't, how the hell are there phases of the moon?
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2017, 10:31:37 AM »
Looks like a spotlight from above coming into view.
Isn't the point of the 'spotlight' theory that you can't see light from the sun unless you are within the beam of the spotlight?

If the earth were flat and you could see the light from a spotlight sun from a balloon why could you not see it from the ground?

Yes, according to flat earth 'spotlight' theory, as you go higher, the sunrise would be later because the beam width narrows as you get closer to the light source.
According to round earth theory, the sun rise gets earlier.  Guess which happened ?

The question the FE'ers don't like you to ask is how the moon is lit by the beam of spotlight sun at night...and if it isn't, how the hell are there phases of the moon?
The sun has two beams of light?
We generally accept evidence from all  sources.

The only evidence for Round Earth celestial accuracy (assuming that timeanddate is even based on RET) is the evidence you collected with your friends last month?

Offline mtnman

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2017, 02:46:47 PM »

The question the FE'ers don't like you to ask is how the moon is lit by the beam of spotlight sun at night...and if it isn't, how the hell are there phases of the moon?
Exactly the main question I've been asking, no answers of course. What's really funny is how Tom referenced this same video to make some point about the horizon being blurry or something (don't remember exactly), so at that point he accepted the video as factual. But bring up more definitive questions and (crickets).

Almost as funny as when Jmann referenced an article trying in vain to disprove GPS satellites and the article was about work on over the horizon radar. So I asked him why the USN was trying to develop over the horizon radar on a flat Earth. (crickets)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 04:00:15 AM by mtnman »

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: High altitude balloon video, consistent with round Earth
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2017, 02:02:42 PM »
The sun has two beams of light?

Well - it needs another one to cast light on Venus, and another on Mercury, and...well, one for every planet, moon, asteroid and comet that shows "phases" when viewed through a telescope.

In the "unipolar" map - the beam that lights up the Earth would have to be semi-circular in order to light up just the half of the world that is in daylight.

In the "bipolar" map - the beam would have to have little curved tails and change shape continually through the day and through the year in order to track the weird shapes of the lines of longitude.  The data from solar panel plants on PVoutput.org clearly demonstrates how that shape must be changing.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?