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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Disproof: Why doesn't the southern hemiplane freeze?
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2017, 07:28:12 PM »
Looking through their PDF on time, they do have some equations listed. They are "geometric." (Trig) The equation below factors in the Earth's "out of roundness" when converting barycentric dynamic time to terrestrial time to an accuracy of 50 microseconds. Barycentric times factor in relativistic effects. (i.e. time dilation) I feel this should put your mind at ease about this not being a "pattern" based application. The application includes 7 different time standards, including geocentric and atomic. Can we get this thread back on track now???

You listed one of the 7 time scales used in the 77 equations. What does that say about the sunrise time equation, the timescale used, and whether the sunrise time equation is geometric or pattern based?

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Offline xenotolerance

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Re: Disproof: Why doesn't the southern hemiplane freeze?
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2017, 07:33:35 PM »
Where are you getting the number 77 equations? I hope not from the name of Fortran 77...

In any case, this derailment has gone on long enough.

The OP presents a really simple idea -- according to the current FE map, southern hemisphere really should freeze because of how much the sunlight would scatter over that area. This is one of ~1 billion other issues with your little "theory". Until you have an actual response to this, we can count this as yet another loss for flerfers.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: Disproof: Why doesn't the southern hemiplane freeze?
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2017, 08:26:34 PM »
Looking through their PDF on time, they do have some equations listed. They are "geometric." (Trig) The equation below factors in the Earth's "out of roundness" when converting barycentric dynamic time to terrestrial time to an accuracy of 50 microseconds. Barycentric times factor in relativistic effects. (i.e. time dilation) I feel this should put your mind at ease about this not being a "pattern" based application. The application includes 7 different time standards, including geocentric and atomic. Can we get this thread back on track now???

You listed one of the 7 time scales used in the 77 equations. What does that say about the sunrise time equation, the timescale used, and whether the sunrise time equation is geometric or pattern based?

Tom, I think you have a lack of understanding about the application. It is FAR more than sunrise/set calculations. I posted links to everything I spoke about. You are free to look yourself and determine if it is rigorous enough for this debate. If it was inaccurate, it would be unusable. Again, it does far more than what we are discussing.

I don't think it has a function for sunrise/sunset. I think those are derived from time and position of objects. (their geometric relations) I will look through the docs tomorrow (i actually have a life, who knew) and get back to you on that. I can't stress enough that this is a scientific application, it is not some janky website app. I don't know your background, but the fact that it is written in Fortran is very indicative of it being a serious scientific application. Fortran is used almost very heavily in science/mathematics. (and not really anywhere else) I was a comp sci major many moons ago and have worked in the IT industry for almost 20 years, just for the record.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
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Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Disproof: Why doesn't the southern hemiplane freeze?
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2017, 02:30:07 PM »
Until you have an actual response to this, we can count this as yet another loss for flerfers.

If this thread achieves nothing else, the introduction of the word "flerfer" was worth the price of admission!  :-)

By analogy, maybe RE'ers should be called "rotflers"...we seem to spend quite a bit of time rotfl'ing.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 02:32:05 PM by 3DGeek »
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: Disproof: Why doesn't the southern hemiplane freeze?
« Reply #64 on: September 18, 2017, 01:10:16 AM »
Ok, I read through a bunch of their tech docs. First, there is no "tell me when the sun will rise" function that I can find. (Nor any reference to anything of the sort) I've seen examples for calculating time, position of the planets, etc. Definitely not using a table as everything is using a calculations to determine time/position. Which frankly, is sort of to be expected. You aren't going to have a database of positions/times going out an arbitrary amount of time because you'd have to calculate those at some point anyways. The math is definitely going to be quicker than doing a data read from a table and you save storage space.

In terms of accuracy, their software is accurate down to the microarcsecond. To give you an example of that, take the  circle of the sky, divide it up into 3600 degrees. That is an arcsecond. Now, take one of those 3600 slices and divide that into a million tiny slices. (pie shaped to be exact) That is the accuracy they are dealing with. Extremely accurate.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Disproof: Why doesn't the southern hemiplane freeze?
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2017, 02:09:58 AM »
Ok, I read through a bunch of their tech docs. First, there is no "tell me when the sun will rise" function that I can find. (Nor any reference to anything of the sort) I've seen examples for calculating time, position of the planets, etc. Definitely not using a table as everything is using a calculations to determine time/position. Which frankly, is sort of to be expected. You aren't going to have a database of positions/times going out an arbitrary amount of time because you'd have to calculate those at some point anyways. The math is definitely going to be quicker than doing a data read from a table and you save storage space.

In terms of accuracy, their software is accurate down to the microarcsecond. To give you an example of that, take the  circle of the sky, divide it up into 3600 degrees. That is an arcsecond. Now, take one of those 3600 slices and divide that into a million tiny slices. (pie shaped to be exact) That is the accuracy they are dealing with. Extremely accurate.

The software tells you where the sun and earth are relative to each other and how far the Earth has rotated - it's trivial to go from that to sunrise/sunset times.
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?