##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2013, 10:39:45 PM »
From what I know, mass/energy causes empty fields of space to curve thus creating gravity.

How would you be sure the gravity doesn't cause the mass?
Mass creates an indent on space-time, which is gravity. Anything that enters this indent must follow the curvature created and accelerate accordingly. The direction of this acceleration is always towards the source of the curvature, which would be the mass.

As you can see, mass causes gravity.

#### Rushy

• Planar Moderator
• 6414
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 01:37:44 AM »
Had a thought on my bike ride in to work. How would you define space in terms of gravity and time only?

There is no such thing as space.

Mass creates an indent on space-time, which is gravity. Anything that enters this indent must follow the curvature created and accelerate accordingly. The direction of this acceleration is always towards the source of the curvature, which would be the mass.

As you can see, mass causes gravity.

No, gravity creates a hole in the universe that forces mass into existence. Even in accepted scientific theorems, mass doesn't cause gravity. That's just some bullshit they give Elementary schoolers because none of them are really going to care what actually causes gravity.

#### Rama Set

• 4853
• Round and round...
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2013, 01:52:35 AM »
Had a thought on my bike ride in to work. How would you define space in terms of gravity and time only?

There is no such thing as space.

Wat?

Mass creates an indent on space-time, which is gravity. Anything that enters this indent must follow the curvature created and accelerate accordingly. The direction of this acceleration is always towards the source of the curvature, which would be the mass.

As you can see, mass causes gravity.

No, gravity creates a hole in the universe that forces mass into existence. Even in accepted scientific theorems, mass doesn't cause gravity. That's just some bullshit they give Elementary schoolers because none of them are really going to care what actually causes gravity.
[/quote]

Mass is one of the contributors to the stress energy tensor, so it is not the cause of gravity but definitely makes gravitational fields stronger.
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.

#### Rushy

• Planar Moderator
• 6414
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 01:55:20 AM »
Wat?

Space is a result of human perception, not an actual "thing" in the universe. I suppose you could say it exists abstractly.

Mass is one of the contributors to the stress energy tensor, so it is not the cause of gravity but definitely makes gravitational fields stronger.

On the contrary, a stronger gravitational field increases mass.

#### Rama Set

• 4853
• Round and round...
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2013, 02:05:59 AM »
Wat?

Space is a result of human perception, not an actual "thing" in the universe. I suppose you could say it exists abstractly.

How do you know it only a result of human perception?  Other animals appear to respond to our notion of space in the exact same fashion.  Is there some rationale you can provide to demonstrate that it might be an abstract concept?

Quote
Mass is one of the contributors to the stress energy tensor, so it is not the cause of gravity but definitely makes gravitational fields stronger.

On the contrary, a stronger gravitational field increases mass.

Can you tell me what definition of mass you are using? Where I am from a strong gravitational field increases weight, not mass.
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.

#### Rushy

• Planar Moderator
• 6414
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2013, 02:15:08 AM »
How do you know it only a result of human perception?  Other animals appear to respond to our notion of space in the exact same fashion.  Is there some rationale you can provide to demonstrate that it might be an abstract concept?

Animals are people, too, you heathen.

Can you tell me what definition of mass you are using? Where I am from a strong gravitational field increases weight, not mass.

Weight is a function of mass.

#### Rama Set

• 4853
• Round and round...
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2013, 03:50:34 AM »
How do you know it only a result of human perception?  Other animals appear to respond to our notion of space in the exact same fashion.  Is there some rationale you can provide to demonstrate that it might be an abstract concept?

Animals are people, too, you heathen.

Can you tell me what definition of mass you are using? Where I am from a strong gravitational field increases weight, not mass.

Weight is a function of mass.

I'm glad we are clear that weight is not mass. Weight is a function of mass and gravity but you know that don't you?
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.

#### Rushy

• Planar Moderator
• 6414
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2013, 03:55:52 AM »
I'm glad we are clear that weight is not mass. Weight is a function of mass and gravity but you know that don't you?

Mass is a function of gravity, but weight is a function of mass, I'm not sure what you're not getting here.

#### spoon

• 1132
• Foxy wins
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2013, 04:24:52 AM »
Explain self awareness. Not thought. Awareness.
inb4 Blanko spoons a literally pizza

#### Rushy

• Planar Moderator
• 6414
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2013, 04:53:38 AM »
Explain self awareness. Not thought. Awareness.

Define awareness.

#### DDDDAts all folks

• 429
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2013, 08:29:39 AM »
I'll try and make this simple.

'Things' exist. Those 'things' interact with existence in different ways.

One of those interactions gives that thing a mass/energy.

That mass/energy causes existence to curve (including time).

That curve interacts with other curves (including time).

That interaction is what we call gravity.

Time and space is the fabric upon which the curves interact (gravity), they are not the same thing.

#### Rama Set

• 4853
• Round and round...
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2013, 12:19:25 PM »
I'm glad we are clear that weight is not mass. Weight is a function of mass and gravity but you know that don't you?

Mass is a function of gravity, but weight is a function of mass, I'm not sure what you're not getting here.

All that may be true but mass does not exist because of gravity. It exists because of the Higgs Field.
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.

#### spank86

• 252
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2013, 07:53:01 PM »
I'm glad we are clear that weight is not mass. Weight is a function of mass and gravity but you know that don't you?

Mass is a function of gravity, but weight is a function of mass, I'm not sure what you're not getting here.

if the weight of an object is entirely dependent on it's mass how come the weight of an object can change and it's mass stay the same?

##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2013, 09:37:45 PM »
No, gravity creates a hole in the universe that forces mass into existence. Even in accepted scientific theorems, mass doesn't cause gravity. That's just some bullshit they give Elementary schoolers because none of them are really going to care what actually causes gravity.
Explain? I thought mass came from a ton of particles from the big bang coming together slowly over time to create small amounts of mass, which would then accumulated into larger amounts as the universe was simultaneously cooling down. According to this, I would imagine that gravity is a by product of mass rather than actually creating mass.

At the same time, I think this explanation of 'mass curving space-time thus causing gravity' only explains things on a larger scale, not so much on a small scale. This is also why they have attempted to explain gravity in other ways and have introduced Quantum Physics, correct?

#### Rushy

• Planar Moderator
• 6414
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2013, 02:38:00 AM »
Explain? I thought mass came from a ton of particles from the big bang coming together slowly over time to create small amounts of mass, which would then accumulated into larger amounts as the universe was simultaneously cooling down. According to this, I would imagine that gravity is a by product of mass rather than actually creating mass.

The Big Bang is the result of all gravity and time in the Universe culminating into a single point-source. That point source exploded outwards into what we see today.

At the same time, I think this explanation of 'mass curving space-time thus causing gravity' only explains things on a larger scale, not so much on a small scale. This is also why they have attempted to explain gravity in other ways and have introduced Quantum Physics, correct?

Gravity is what determines that mass should exist over any given period of time. This is why dark matter is almost gravitationally non-existent, it can't exist because gravity hasn't brought it into being. How gravity picks and chooses is unknown.

#### Rama Set

• 4853
• Round and round...
##### Re: Time and Gravity are the same thing.
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2013, 03:19:02 AM »
Explain? I thought mass came from a ton of particles from the big bang coming together slowly over time to create small amounts of mass, which would then accumulated into larger amounts as the universe was simultaneously cooling down. According to this, I would imagine that gravity is a by product of mass rather than actually creating mass.

The Big Bang is the result of all gravity and time in the Universe culminating into a single point-source. That point source exploded outwards into what we see today.

At the same time, I think this explanation of 'mass curving space-time thus causing gravity' only explains things on a larger scale, not so much on a small scale. This is also why they have attempted to explain gravity in other ways and have introduced Quantum Physics, correct?

Gravity is what determines that mass should exist over any given period of time. This is why dark matter is almost gravitationally non-existent, it can't exist because gravity hasn't brought it into being. How gravity picks and chooses is unknown.

Rushy sceptifies gravity.
Technically the explanation for why the sun sets at higher altitudes is also "waves," and whatnot.