Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #60 on: August 09, 2017, 10:09:18 PM »
I can't find any New York to Paris flights, or New York to Buenos Airies flights, or New York to Cape Town flights on https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/route-maps/global/en. Please provide your sources.
All a bit sad really, you carefully reply to avoid making progress when you know you could look further and argue about detail.  Do you really think there are no New York to Paris flights by any airline?

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2017, 01:22:06 AM »
I can't find any New York to Paris flights, or New York to Buenos Airies flights, or New York to Cape Town flights on https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/route-maps/global/en. Please provide your sources.
All a bit sad really, you carefully reply to avoid making progress when you know you could look further and argue about detail.  Do you really think there are no New York to Paris flights by any airline?

Go here:

http://onw.innosked.com/(S(mizq3vf4cnmfklzngbi0u5kt))/default.aspx?show=MAP

Click on Paris...when the pop-up appears, scroll it down to New York - and you'll see there are scheduled flights to all three major NY airports.

(You have to be sure to click the "Sort By" button and select "Number of Stops" and only use the "Non-stop" results!)
Hey Tom:  What path do the photons take from the physical location of the sun to my eye at sunset?

geckothegeek

Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2017, 03:55:27 PM »
The distance from New York to Paris is unknown.

Whaaattt !!!!! ??????
Distance New York to Paris = 3,625  miles
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 08:31:25 PM by geckothegeek »

geckothegeek

Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2017, 04:06:08 PM »
I can't find any New York to Paris flights, or New York to Buenos Airies flights, or New York to Cape Town flights on https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/route-maps/global/en. Please provide your sources.

Simple. You're looking in the wrong place, Tom. Qantas is an Australia airline. Of course Australia doesn't exist !

Try American Airlines, British Airways, et cetera, et cetera , and so forth !

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2017, 04:11:24 PM »
I can't find any New York to Paris flights, or New York to Buenos Airies flights, or New York to Cape Town flights on https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/route-maps/global/en. Please provide your sources.

Simple. You're looking in the wrong place, Tom. Qantas is an Australia airline. Of course Australia doesn't exist !

Try American Airlines, British Airways, et cetera, et cetera , and so forth !

British Airways is a great place to start.  They fly all over the world and the fleet of 787's allows plenty of non-stops.  We have an Austin to Heathrow once a day from little old Austin.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

geckothegeek

Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2017, 04:44:03 PM »
I can't find any New York to Paris flights, or New York to Buenos Airies flights, or New York to Cape Town flights on https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/route-maps/global/en. Please provide your sources.

Simple. You're looking in the wrong place, Tom. Qantas is an Australia airline. Of course Australia doesn't exist !

Try American Airlines, British Airways, et cetera, et cetera , and so forth !

British Airways is a great place to start.  They fly all over the world and the fleet of 787's allows plenty of non-stops.  We have an Austin to Heathrow once a day from little old Austin.

DFW has flights to all over the world.
Including Paris.
There are even also flights from DFW to AUS.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #66 on: August 11, 2017, 04:43:27 AM »

In STEP 2 I demonstrated that the distances produced by the "WorldAtlas" site produces distances that are within 1% of Qantas' distances - and therefore whatever internal math it's using is a very good match for airline distance statements in general.

You used those numbers (without a word of complaint) when you (incorrectly) believed that they supported your Flat Earth Theory and triumphantly quoted them when you THOUGHT they disproved the Round Earth.  As it turns out, this is a clever trap that you fell into.   I wish I was smart enough to have planned it that way...but I'm not.

Please show that the distances in that link are based on flight times and not a round earth.

Quote
So - what you resort to is the rather pathetic complaint that there are no direct flights between some of those four cities with which we could back up the WorldAtlas distances between them.   I would also point out that if you go to Google Maps - and enter those same cities and ask for an route BY AIRPLANE - it comes out with very similar numbers...within 1%.

Please show that any of those sources are based on logs and not a Round Earth model.

And if you bring up cruising speed, please show how the cruising speed of the aircraft was calculated. Based on a test flight to a location with a "known" distance according to Round Earth Theory in the aircraft's development?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2017, 04:44:18 AM »
I can't find any New York to Paris flights, or New York to Buenos Airies flights, or New York to Cape Town flights on https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/route-maps/global/en. Please provide your sources.
All a bit sad really, you carefully reply to avoid making progress when you know you could look further and argue about detail.  Do you really think there are no New York to Paris flights by any airline?

I do think that there are flights between those locations. Think about how a pilot would know his distance between Point A and Point B.

Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #68 on: August 11, 2017, 05:13:28 AM »

In STEP 2 I demonstrated that the distances produced by the "WorldAtlas" site produces distances that are within 1% of Qantas' distances - and therefore whatever internal math it's using is a very good match for airline distance statements in general.

You used those numbers (without a word of complaint) when you (incorrectly) believed that they supported your Flat Earth Theory and triumphantly quoted them when you THOUGHT they disproved the Round Earth.  As it turns out, this is a clever trap that you fell into.   I wish I was smart enough to have planned it that way...but I'm not.

Please show that the distances in that link are based on flight times and not a round earth.
Irrelevant. They match the distances that have been corroborated via the flight times within 1%. How that site got them is therefore immaterial, since we have a known (I thought agreeable) method that concurs with the distances they are giving.

So - what you resort to is the rather pathetic complaint that there are no direct flights between some of those four cities with which we could back up the WorldAtlas distances between them.   I would also point out that if you go to Google Maps - and enter those same cities and ask for an route BY AIRPLANE - it comes out with very similar numbers...within 1%.

Please show that any of those sources are based on logs and not a Round Earth model.

And if you bring up cruising speed, please show how the cruising speed of the aircraft was calculated. Based on a test flight to a location with a "known" distance according to Round Earth Theory in the aircraft's development?

Air speed isn't calculated that way. It's calculated thusly

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #69 on: August 11, 2017, 07:28:43 AM »

I'm flying to Lisbon Sunday morning from Luton airport (England), distance 994.06 miles, estimated time of flight 2hrs 50mins, I'll time it.
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #70 on: August 11, 2017, 07:33:11 AM »

I'm flying to Lisbon Sunday morning from Luton airport (England), distance 994.06 miles, estimated time of flight 2hrs 50mins, I'll time it.

And how will you know that the distance isn't really 980 or 1015 miles?

Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2017, 08:11:45 AM »
I can't find any New York to Paris flights, or New York to Buenos Airies flights, or New York to Cape Town flights on https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/route-maps/global/en. Please provide your sources.
All a bit sad really, you carefully reply to avoid making progress when you know you could look further and argue about detail.  Do you really think there are no New York to Paris flights by any airline?

I do think that there are flights between those locations. Think about how a pilot would know his distance between Point A and Point B.
Think, the rest of us know.  You tell us how we know distances.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2017, 11:37:13 AM »

Well I know where you are going with this, as you will cavil away until the end of time rather than concede a point. However I have driven a good deal of this continent (from northern Scandinavia to southern Spain) over the years, using both maps and GPS, and it joins up, mileage is in the limits you expect from elevation changes and getting lost and I have always got where I wanted within the times I calculated.   
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2017, 02:30:38 PM »
I can't find any New York to Paris flights, or New York to Buenos Airies flights, or New York to Cape Town flights on https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/route-maps/global/en. Please provide your sources.
All a bit sad really, you carefully reply to avoid making progress when you know you could look further and argue about detail.  Do you really think there are no New York to Paris flights by any airline?

I do think that there are flights between those locations. Think about how a pilot would know his distance between Point A and Point B.

He would know it based on the charts he uses, the calculations the airline and he made for fuel consumption, time at the gate, time on the ramp, time in the air, time in the pattern and time again on the ramp.  If the engines are running he is costing the airline money and he knows to the minute how long the fuel will last.  I would submit airlines know as much or more about distances between two points than any other entities.   Airlines are in the business to make money, not to try and trick you or any other delusional group.


If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2017, 02:37:58 PM »

I'm flying to Lisbon Sunday morning from Luton airport (England), distance 994.06 miles, estimated time of flight 2hrs 50mins, I'll time it.

And how will you know that the distance isn't really 980 or 1015 miles?

Not relevant.  You are trying to introduce a 2-3% error.  Any published flat earth map produces errors of 200% to 400% in distances between southern hemisphere flights.  The sad thing is you know that, but continue to try to derail a thread that is based on provable facts.  One would think a zealot would jump on board and help prove what you think is true.  A flat earth map could be roughed in based on point to point distances within your 3% error.  If it was possible that is.

You are a very dishonest debater.  What are you so afraid of?






If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #75 on: August 11, 2017, 02:43:02 PM »

In STEP 2 I demonstrated that the distances produced by the "WorldAtlas" site produces distances that are within 1% of Qantas' distances - and therefore whatever internal math it's using is a very good match for airline distance statements in general.

You used those numbers (without a word of complaint) when you (incorrectly) believed that they supported your Flat Earth Theory and triumphantly quoted them when you THOUGHT they disproved the Round Earth.  As it turns out, this is a clever trap that you fell into.   I wish I was smart enough to have planned it that way...but I'm not.

Please show that the distances in that link are based on flight times and not a round earth.

Quote
So - what you resort to is the rather pathetic complaint that there are no direct flights between some of those four cities with which we could back up the WorldAtlas distances between them.   I would also point out that if you go to Google Maps - and enter those same cities and ask for an route BY AIRPLANE - it comes out with very similar numbers...within 1%.

Please show that any of those sources are based on logs and not a Round Earth model. 




Everything you need to know is right here

https://flightaware.com/live/

Look at every commercial flight in the air.  All with metadata.

Quote
And if you bring up cruising speed, please show how the cruising speed of the aircraft was calculated. Based on a test flight to a location with a "known" distance according to Round Earth Theory in the aircraft's development

Pretty simple science.

Now Tom, let's get this thread back on track.







« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 03:23:02 PM by TomInAustin »
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #76 on: August 11, 2017, 03:15:58 PM »
Here is my plan for this.  Pretty simple really and somewhat of a high school project.  I am going to print out scale models of each continent based on localized maps.  Sized to known distances. Then it will be a simple matter of laying those out on a flat table and position them based on known indisputable distances via published airline data.  Should be exactly what a flat earth looks like right?  I would welcome help from Tom Bishop on this.  It could support his position.


Photos to follow.


If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #77 on: August 11, 2017, 03:30:54 PM »
Here is a very informative article about southern routes in the southern hemisphere.  A lot I did not know such as twin engine limitations and how that explains flight distances and time variations based on 2 or 4 engines.

Quote
Antarctica[edit]
Few airlines fly between cities having a great circle route over Antarctica. Nonstop flights between South Africa and New Zealand, or between Perth, Australia and certain destinations in South America (including Buenos Aires and São Paulo), would overfly Antarctica, but no airline has scheduled such flights. Flights between Australia and South America and between Australia and South Africa pass near the Antarctic coastline. Depending on the winds, the Qantas flight QF 63 from Sydney to Johannesburg-O. R. Tambo sometimes flies over the Antarctic Circle to latitude 71 degrees as well and allowing views of the icecap.[19] Qantas also flies nonstop between Sydney and Santiago de Chile, the most southerly polar route. Depending on winds, this flight may reach 55 degrees south latitude, but other times 71 degrees, which is enough to cross the polar ice cap.[20][better source needed] The polar route across the remote southern Pacific Ocean between South America and Oceania was pioneered by Aerolineas Argentinas, which began service between Buenos Aires via Rio Gallegos to Auckland in the 1980s with a Boeing 747-200 aircraft. Aerolineas Argentinas later operated to Sydney, but ended its flights to New Zealand and Australia in 2014.[21]
Because of ETOPS limitations on twin-engined aircraft—the maximum distance the aircraft can operate from an airport for emergency landings—only 4-engined aircraft such as the Boeing 747 or Airbus A340 can operate routes near Antarctica. Twin-engined aircraft must fly further north, closer to potential diversion airports; for example, when Virgin Australia operated a flight from Melbourne to Johannesburg on twin-engined Boeing 777 aircraft with a 180-minute ETOPS rating, the flight was two hours longer than a Qantas flight from Sydney to Johannesburg.[22] Air New Zealand flies nonstop between Auckland and Buenos Aires-Ezeiza; in 2015, government regulators approved its twin-engined Boeing 777-200ER aircraft that operate the route for a 330-minute ETOPS rating (i.e. its 777 aircraft can fly a maximum 330 minutes away from the nearest diversion airport), an increase from its previous 240-minute ETOPS rating.[23] LATAM Airlines began a nonstop flight between Santiago de Chile and Sydney via Auckland in April 2015 with twin-engined Boeing 787 aircraft with a 330-minute ETOPS rating.[24][25] LATAM has announced a nonstop flight between Santiago de Chile and Melbourne to begin in October 2017.[26][27]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_route#Antarctica
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #78 on: August 11, 2017, 03:34:56 PM »
Here is my plan for this.  Pretty simple really and somewhat of a high school project.  I am going to print out scale models of each continent based on localized maps.  Sized to known distances. Then it will be a simple matter of laying those out on a flat table and position them based on known indisputable distances via published airline data.  Should be exactly what a flat earth looks like right?  I would welcome help from Tom Bishop on this.  It could support his position.


Photos to follow.
I can see Tom's rebuttal already. "How do you know any of those distances are correct?" Jura appears to be right, he'd rather attempt to cavil at every turn, than actually accept a point against FE. Which I find mildly amusing when he personally can barely form a point FOR FE. I'm interested to see what you come up with though, I'm fairly confident in what will happen but curious just where the 'worst' locations and 'best' locations will be. Hey, maybe you'll suddenly find a way it can work somehow. Considering it sounds like the FE community has put nil effort into doing this up until now, I suppose it's possible.

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Using airline flight data.
« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2017, 03:50:27 PM »
Here is my plan for this.  Pretty simple really and somewhat of a high school project.  I am going to print out scale models of each continent based on localized maps.  Sized to known distances. Then it will be a simple matter of laying those out on a flat table and position them based on known indisputable distances via published airline data.  Should be exactly what a flat earth looks like right?  I would welcome help from Tom Bishop on this.  It could support his position.


Photos to follow.
I can see Tom's rebuttal already. "How do you know any of those distances are correct?" Jura appears to be right, he'd rather attempt to cavil at every turn, than actually accept a point against FE. Which I find mildly amusing when he personally can barely form a point FOR FE. I'm interested to see what you come up with though, I'm fairly confident in what will happen but curious just where the 'worst' locations and 'best' locations will be. Hey, maybe you'll suddenly find a way it can work somehow. Considering it sounds like the FE community has put nil effort into doing this up until now, I suppose it's possible.

Tom gives himself away regularly.  Like a "poker face".  You can plot what topics he's afraid of based on which threads he runs away from or tries to derail. 

But to your point. Distances between continents using average published flight distances, speeds, and duration of 4 engine aircraft in the southern hemisphere would be hard to argue.   Distances within continents would be much more accurate since we know how big Australia, South America, New Zealand (yes I know, not a continent), and Africa are.

This thread needs to be kept alive and linked to provide valid data to newcomers of the site.

If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.