[the-earth-is-round]

Hello FES. As you can see from my name I'm a round Earther and even givin all the "evidence" I've been shown from pictures and videos I still and most likley will always believe the earth is round. With that being said I have a friend that pushes it on me so hard its kind of annoying. We always end up getting into debates over the shape of the earth and I honestly wish we could just drop it and move on. I don't care that he believes the earth is flat millions of people do and its cool, but why do you think he tries so hard to push it on me, what do you all think I should do or say to get him to just drop it.

[Tom Bishop]

If you are so certain and secure in your belief that the earth is round, why have you been unable to prove it to your friend? That would be the easiest way to handle the situation.

[Rounder]

I don't care that he believes the earth is flat millions of people do and its cool

Millions, really?  If you could provide a source for that information please.

[the-earth-is-round]

I don't care that he believes the earth is flat millions of people do and its cool

Millions, really?  If you could provide a source for that information please.

2,384,986 its a cold hard fact.

Source: the internet

[the-earth-is-round]

If you are so certain and secure in your belief that the earth is round, why have you been unable to prove it to your friend? That would be the easiest way to handle the situation.

Because he is a flat earther and flat earthers refuse to believe.

[Tom Bishop]

If you are so certain and secure in your belief that the earth is round, why have you been unable to prove it to your friend? That would be the easiest way to handle the situation.

Because he is a flat earther and flat earthers refuse to believe.

If you are correct and the earth is round, then the evidence should be plentiful and obvious. It should be easy to embarrass him enough to drop the charade.

[Boots]

If your FE friend was really confident in his belief he wouldn't feel the need to push so hard. It is obvious he is trying to solidify his belief by attempting to convince those around him that he is correct.

[Pete Svarrior]

If your FE friend was really confident in his belief he wouldn't feel the need to push so hard. It is obvious he is trying to solidify his belief by attempting to convince those around him that he is correct.

That's not strictly true. It can be indicative of that, but different people go about their convictions in different ways. This is most easily observable with political opinions, but it applies most everywhere.

OP, have you tried talking to your friend and explaining to him exactly what you said just now? That you're cool with him being an FE'er, but that you'd rather agree to disagree and focus on other things? If you have and it didn't work, you may have to consider distancing yourself from him a little bit. Nobody likes a preacher.

[Boots]

Of course it's not necessarily true. I was just trying to fit in with the (lack of) logic on display in this thread.

[Rounder]

I don't care that he believes the earth is flat millions of people do and its cool

Millions, really?  If you could provide a source for that information please.

2,384,986 its a cold hard fact.

Source: the internet

LOL, that's not how "provide a source" works.  Where on "the internet" did you get so specific a number?  Is that source trustworthy?  After all, the internet also contains web sites that "prove" the earth to be (insert shape you think is wrong) so you can't believe everything you see online.

[markjo]

If you are so certain and secure in your belief that the earth is round, why have you been unable to prove it to your friend? That would be the easiest way to handle the situation.

Because he is a flat earther and flat earthers refuse to believe.

If you are correct and the earth is round, then the evidence should be plentiful and obvious. It should be easy to embarrass him enough to drop the charade.

You would think so, but hanging around sites like this just goes to show how much evidence people are willing to ignore in order to preserve their beliefs.  Or for the sake of a gag.  Your choice as to which is more likely.

[TomInAustin]

If you are so certain and secure in your belief that the earth is round, why have you been unable to prove it to your friend? That would be the easiest way to handle the situation.

Because he is a flat earther and flat earthers refuse to believe.

If you are correct and the earth is round, then the evidence should be plentiful and obvious. It should be easy to embarrass him enough to drop the charade.

I have found that the opposite is true.   When you present hard evidence you are confronted with conspiracy mumbo jumbo.   Anyone can look at a flat earth map, look up flight times from southern hemisphere airports and see the truth.

[3DGeek]

My experience is that you cannot argue certain things that are pushed off the table with blank disclaimers.

• Photos of the round earth or other space-based evidence is dismissed as a "NASA/UN conspiracy" - you can't prove that it's not a conspiracy - so it's really not worth the effort to try.  This evidence is "off the table".
• Scientific results and similar things are dismissed as "Have YOU actually TRIED that?" - and since you don't happen to have a handy 100" telescope in your back yard - you're not going to win that argument either.

[li]Things that require too much math or trigonometry don't work well because most FE'ers get lost in the weeds of the math - so right or wrong, the results are not compelling.
[/li][/list]

HOWEVER: The most compelling evidence are simple observations that anyone can make.  How do sunsets happen?   How does the moon have phases?   Why does a new moon look 'vertical' in the north, 'horizontal' at the equator and 'upside-down' in the southern parts of the planet?   How is it that Quantas can fly you from Australia to South America or South Africa when the Flat Earth map of the world shows that these distances are more than twice the range of a 747 airliner and the flight times would require them to fly at twice the speed of sound?   Why are there TWO high tides and TWO low tides every day?

These questions are VERY tough for Flat Earth people to answer - they are not easily dismissed - and the evidence is ridiculously easy to find.

So look for simple stuff - and stick within the rules of evidence that your friend is willing to accept.  This is a fascinating intellectual exercise.

I doubt you'll convince him/her though.

[Pete Svarrior]

Scientific results and similar things are dismissed as "Have YOU actually TRIED that?" - and since you don't happen to have a handy 100" telescope in your back yard - you're not going to win that argument either.

Don't you think asking people to just take someone's word without a shred evidence is a bit silly? What if I told you that my late uncle absolutely super-totally went to space and saw the Earth to be flat? Unfortunately he's dead and I don't have any proof, but hey, it would be silly for you to expect me to just have a spaceship in my back yard.

Things that require too much math or trigonometry don't work well because most FE'ers get lost in the weeds of the math - so right or wrong, the results are not compelling.

I'd be interested in seeing you back up your claim that this happens often, or, failing that, that it happens at all.

HOWEVER: The most compelling evidence are simple observations that anyone can make.  How do sunsets happen?   How does the moon have phases?   Why does a new moon look 'vertical' in the north, 'horizontal' at the equator and 'upside-down' in the southern parts of the planet?   How is it that Quantas can fly you from Australia to South America or South Africa when the Flat Earth map of the world shows that these distances are more than twice the range of a 747 airliner and the flight times would require them to fly at twice the speed of sound?

Ah, yes, the "I didn't read the FAQ" starter kit. Truly the pinnacle of low-quality posting.

Why are there TWO high tides and TWO low tides every day?

I've explained this to you twice, I'm not going to waste my time for a third time.

[TomInAustin]

Scientific results and similar things are dismissed as "Have YOU actually TRIED that?" - and since you don't happen to have a handy 100" telescope in your back yard - you're not going to win that argument either.

Don't you think asking people to just take someone's word without a shred evidence is a bit silly? What if I told you that my late uncle absolutely super-totally went to space and saw the Earth to be flat? Unfortunately he's dead and I don't have any proof, but hey, it would be silly for you to expect me to just have a spaceship in my back yard.

Things that require too much math or trigonometry don't work well because most FE'ers get lost in the weeds of the math - so right or wrong, the results are not compelling.

I'd be interested in seeing you back up your claim that this happens often, or, failing that, that it happens at all.

HOWEVER: The most compelling evidence are simple observations that anyone can make.  How do sunsets happen?   How does the moon have phases?   Why does a new moon look 'vertical' in the north, 'horizontal' at the equator and 'upside-down' in the southern parts of the planet?   

How is it that Quantas can fly you from Australia to South America or South Africa when the Flat Earth map of the world shows that these distances are more than twice the range of a 747 airliner and the flight times would require them to fly at twice the speed of sound?

Ah, yes, the "I didn't read the FAQ" starter kit. Truly the pinnacle of low-quality posting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I have read the FAQ and it does not address the flight time problem in any way.  In fact, the FAQ does not contain the word "flight" if the search is working.

[Pete Svarrior]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I have read the FAQ and it does not address the flight time problem in any way.  In fact, the FAQ does not contain the word "flight" if the search is working.

A fair point, I was being too harsh. Let's substitute "I didn't read the FAQ" with "I didn't do basic research" for the sake of accuracy. The sentiment stands.

[TomInAustin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I have read the FAQ and it does not address the flight time problem in any way.  In fact, the FAQ does not contain the word "flight" if the search is working.

A fair point, I was being too harsh. Let's substitute "I didn't read the FAQ" with "I didn't do basic research" for the sake of accuracy. The sentiment stands.

This may not be the right place for the discussion on flight times but I have seen the question asked many times and never answered.  How do you explain it when flights between South Africa and Australia take the amount of time they would if plotted on a globe?  If plotted on any flat earth map in the Wiki / FAQ they would take much longer unless the aircraft could exceed it's posted speed and fly supersonic.

[TheTruthIsOnHere]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I have read the FAQ and it does not address the flight time problem in any way.  In fact, the FAQ does not contain the word "flight" if the search is working.

A fair point, I was being too harsh. Let's substitute "I didn't read the FAQ" with "I didn't do basic research" for the sake of accuracy. The sentiment stands.

This may not be the right place for the discussion on flight times but I have seen the question asked many times and never answered.  How do you explain it when flights between South Africa and Australia take the amount of time they would if plotted on a globe?  If plotted on any flat earth map in the Wiki / FAQ they would take much longer unless the aircraft could exceed it's posted speed and fly supersonic.

The map everyone wants to reference and or criticize doesn't accurately represent longitude. No one makes that claim. The projection is called Azimuthal Equidistant meaning that each line of longitude intersects the lines of latitude at equal distances. It is a projection made on the assumption of the Earth being a sphere, and should not be used beyond basic visualization of how our planet might appear with the North Pole as its center.

[TomInAustin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I have read the FAQ and it does not address the flight time problem in any way.  In fact, the FAQ does not contain the word "flight" if the search is working.

A fair point, I was being too harsh. Let's substitute "I didn't read the FAQ" with "I didn't do basic research" for the sake of accuracy. The sentiment stands.

This may not be the right place for the discussion on flight times but I have seen the question asked many times and never answered.  How do you explain it when flights between South Africa and Australia take the amount of time they would if plotted on a globe?  If plotted on any flat earth map in the Wiki / FAQ they would take much longer unless the aircraft could exceed it's posted speed and fly supersonic.

The map everyone wants to reference and or criticize doesn't accurately represent longitude. No one makes that claim. The projection is called Azimuthal Equidistant meaning that each line of longitude intersects the lines of latitude at equal distances. It is a projection made on the assumption of the Earth being a sphere, and should not be used beyond basic visualization of how our planet might appear with the North Pole as its center.

What does the map look like to you?  Are you saying longitude lines are not a consistent angle?   If one goes south of the north pole on East 150 degrees you eventually come to the southeast corner of Austraila. If you do the same on West 70 you will arrive close to the tip of South America.  These two points are roughly 5,600 miles or 9,000 km apart.   How far would that be on the map you think of?  The only flat earth maps I can find show those two points to be about as far apart as any two can.

I am not asking this to criticize but to understand more about FE theory.

 The distances from point to point are fairly well established. 


Edited for typo

[TheTruthIsOnHere]

I told you exactly what that projection is.

There is no accurate flat earth map, mostly because the entire concept and debate is something that has pretty recently been reinvigorated. There needs to be a team of people with expertise in cartography AND a willingness to rethink the world map from the ground up.

People navigated for thousands of years without the assumption of the Earth being round. Even the projection you see in your smart phone GPS is essentially a "flat" map.