[Tom Bishop]

This is just a matter of Trump being right and me being wrong. President Trump is among the first to get the full details and suggested it was DEI related, but didn't specify which DEI category that would be.

https://apnews.com/article/plane-crash-washington-dc-trump-dei-claims-3ac5486ec594d81e919e8ebbd9733869

Q: “Are you saying this crash was somehow caused as the result of diversity hiring? And what evidence have you seen to support these claims?”

TRUMP: “It just could have been. We have a high standard. We’ve had a much higher standard than anybody else. And there are things where you have to go by brainpower. You have to go by psychological quality, and psychological quality is a very important element of it. These are various, very powerful tests that we put to use. And they were terminated by Biden. And Biden went by a standard that seeks the exact opposite. So we don’t know. But we do know that you had two planes at the same level. You had a helicopter and a plane. That shouldn’t have happened. And, we’ll see. We’re going to look into that, and we’re going to see. But certainly for an air traffic controller, we want the brightest, the smartest, the sharpest. We want somebody that’s psychologically superior. And that’s what we’re going to have.”

[honk]

I guess "needs training" is its own DEI category, then? Clearly, the military should only be recruiting people who are already fully trained to do the job.

[Lord Dave]

This is just a matter of Trump being right and me being wrong. President Trump is among the first to get the full details and suggested it was DEI related, but didn't specify which DEI category that would be.

https://apnews.com/article/plane-crash-washington-dc-trump-dei-claims-3ac5486ec594d81e919e8ebbd9733869

Q: “Are you saying this crash was somehow caused as the result of diversity hiring? And what evidence have you seen to support these claims?”

TRUMP: “It just could have been. We have a high standard. We’ve had a much higher standard than anybody else. And there are things where you have to go by brainpower. You have to go by psychological quality, and psychological quality is a very important element of it. These are various, very powerful tests that we put to use. And they were terminated by Biden. And Biden went by a standard that seeks the exact opposite. So we don’t know. But we do know that you had two planes at the same level. You had a helicopter and a plane. That shouldn’t have happened. And, we’ll see. We’re going to look into that, and we’re going to see. But certainly for an air traffic controller, we want the brightest, the smartest, the sharpest. We want somebody that’s psychologically superior. And that’s what we’re going to have.”

Trump blaming the air controller when the copter was, apparently, too high according to the air traffic controller.
And rather than blame failure of equipment or wait until the investigation, he blames DEI.  And his base first blamed a trans woman who wasn't even there which tells me they just pulled a trans woman pilot's name because they wanted to lie.

Nothing but lies.  And you, you evil man, promote them.

[Action80]

Apparently, the ATC was allowed to 'leave early" by a supervisor.

This left just one controller in the tower, now needing to perform the job of two controllers.

This is a tragic situation. That airport has a lot of traffic and has been the site of many accidents over the years. I have only taken two flights in and out of that airport over the years and will never take another.

[Lord Dave]

Apparently, the ATC was allowed to 'leave early" by a supervisor.

This left just one controller in the tower, now needing to perform the job of two controllers.

This is a tragic situation. That airport has a lot of traffic and has been the site of many accidents over the years. I have only taken two flights in and out of that airport over the years and will never take another.

And?
My understanding is that the pilot of the helicopter was at 300ft instead of the 200ft air control told them to be at.

[Action80]

The "and" is, it is never good for anyone to do "two jobs at once."

Good management and supervision is key.

If you read the article, it states: "The Federal Aviation Authority reportedly confirmed in a preliminary safety report of the crash that one controller was doing the job of two, according to the New York Times. Airplane and helicopter traffic is normally handled by two separate controllers until 9:30 p.m., but a supervisor allegedly merged the two jobs before the allotted changeover time, a source told the newspaper."

So, had the additional controller been present to handle the air traffic for the helicopter, it may have not been intruding on the airplane's designated flight path.

[Lord Dave]

The "and" is, it is never good for anyone to do "two jobs at once."

Good management and supervision is key.

If you read the article, it states: "The Federal Aviation Authority reportedly confirmed in a preliminary safety report of the crash that one controller was doing the job of two, according to the New York Times. Airplane and helicopter traffic is normally handled by two separate controllers until 9:30 p.m., but a supervisor allegedly merged the two jobs before the allotted changeover time, a source told the newspaper."

So, had the additional controller been present to handle the air traffic for the helicopter, it may have not been intruding on the airplane's designated flight path.

Yes and that's poor management, depending on the situation.  Like if one of your controllers is vomiting... Whatcha gonna do?  Question is... Why were there only 2?

Also, would it have helped?
From what I read, the air controller told them to fly no higher than 200ft.  Having a second person to tell them the same thing probably wouldn't have prevented the crash. 

[Dr Van Nostrand]

It also appears that the pilot was a trump-hating transsexual. Individuals with gender dysphoria have a very high suicide rate:

This unresearched, knee-jerk response is a classic demonstration of the Trump/Putin indoctrination going on in America.

Angry, self-entitled Americans are being conditioned by the Murdoch oligarchy that despite having cheaper gasoline, more food and more jobs than any other country on the planet, their lives suck and it's all because of DEI homosexual immigrant liberal socialist hordes.
So Americans go running into the strong, safe arms of the mighty Trumputin for protection.

This is what Russia did in Venezuela. They flood the public media with disinformation and get the ignorant population to elect a bunch of corrupt, pro-Russia polticians who change the constitution so they stay in power.
Trump supports Russian expansion in Europe, has filled his staff with pro-Russia freaks (like Gabbard and Noems), and is one Supreme Court nomination from absolute criminal immunity.

Putin is pleased. Russia got their money's worth for the millions of dollars spent on this election.



.

[Action80]

LD, maybe you can show where the ATC person directed the helicopter not to fly at an altitude over 200 feet. I mean, the source you provided (the Daily Mail) states this, sure, but the FAA has not officially released any such statement and the Daily Mail is typically "trash journalism." Wikipedia does not even allow its use as a source.

[Lord Dave]

LD, maybe you can show where the ATC person directed the helicopter not to fly at an altitude over 200 feet. I mean, the source you provided (the Daily Mail) states this, sure, but the FAA has not officially released any such statement and the Daily Mail is typically "trash journalism." Wikipedia does not even allow its use as a source.

You are correct!
Trump said it but that's also unreliable.  They haven't made a conclusion.  Nor about staffing issues either.

So both of our thoughts on the cause are unconfirmed.

[RonJ]

I was a commercial pilot for decades.  I also listened to a copy of the air traffic controller's radio traffic.  The helicopter was told about the landing airliner and the helicopter pilot said that he had visual contact.  Unfortunately, there was a second airliner in the vicinity, and it appears that the helicopter was maintaining visual contact with the wrong airliner when the collision occurred.  The helicopter was also above his maximum permitted altitude while flying thru the path that any aircraft would have to be on during final approach less than a minute before landing.  At night there is also a confusing number of lights on the ground and the helicopter was wearing night vision goggles that adds some other complexity to the situation.  It all boils down to a mistake made by the helicopter pilot.  He didn't maintain visual separation like he was instructed to do by the air traffic controller.     

[Action80]

Ronj, the helicopter (PAT25) was told to go behind the CRJ.

I am unsure of what tape you were listening to "visual separation."

ETA: The helicopter pilot was not a "he."

If all you are going to do is post the usual goddamn piece of bullshit fucking resume and follow that up with a goddamn lie, then please for the love of God, just STFU...

[DuncanDoenitz]

I am unsure of what tape you were listening to "visual separation."

ETA: The helicopter pilot was not a "he."

"Visual separation" is an established avoidance procedure when one pilot is in visual contact with potentially conflicting traffic.  This procedure was (possibly erroneously) accepted in this case. 

"The helicopter pilot was not a "he"".  That statement is a lie, and you should be shamed appropriately. 

The crew consisted of a crewman in the cabin, and 2 pilots in the cockpit, one of whom would be the aircraft commander; one pilot was male and the other female.  In 2-pilot operation, at any given time, one of the pilots acts as "Pilot Flying" (PF), the other is "Pilot Monitoring" (PM); these 2 roles swop about during the flight according to the tactical nature of the operation and the experience/training/continuity required by the 2 pilots.  Whoever is PF at any given time is not necessarily known to anyone outside the aircraft, and is in any case immaterial.  Until a cockpit voice recording becomes available, the sex of "the pilot" operating the controls is therefore unknown. 

Whoever is PF, either pilot can speak with ATC, and both are responsible for following their instructions or stating an inability to comply. 

[Action80]

The identity of the third soldier on the Black Hawk, a female pilot, has yet to be released.

The instructor pilot was a male.

The pilot being trained was a female.

This was a training mission and the roles of PF and PM are designated prior to takeoff.

Feel free to bathe in the shame yourself.

[RonJ]

Ronj, the helicopter (PAT25) was told to go behind the CRJ.
If all you are going to do is post the usual goddamn piece of bullshit fucking resume and follow that up with a goddamn lie, then please for the love of God, just STFU...

Again, there's no way you could tell who is actually at the controls of the helicopter by listening to the radio.  When I was flying (pilot in command sitting on the left side in the cockpit) the co-pilot (sitting on the right) might be the one who was talking on the radio.  That wouldn't be unusual for a routine flight from point A to point B.  This was a check flight, however, and when I was the one who was being 'checked' I would be doing both, flying and talking on the radio.  That way the check pilot could be certain that, if I was alone in the cockpit, I could do both jobs at the same time.  When I listened to the radio traffic again, I would say that the voice I could hear from PAT25 was a male. He said that He had visual contact with the other aircraft. In any case, the information not available was: Who was pilot in command?  If you are on a check flight and the pilot who is doing the 'checking' decides that the pilot who is flying is screwing things up all that has to be said is: "I've got the aircraft" and then take the controls immediately.  Ultimately it is the senior check pilot who is in command and if there's an accident then that person (male or female) is the one responsible. 

[Action80]

Ronj, you claim to have it on audio.

Post the link. Let's hear it.

[RonJ]

All you have to do is a little of your own research.  If I post it and you don't like what you hear, you will probably say I'm altering the audio somehow and then throw out a bunch of expletives.  I would rather save you the trouble of doing that and keep things a bit more civil on this site.   

[Lord Dave]

Is the audio publically available?

[RonJ]

Yes, it is.  It didn't take me more than a couple of minutes to find the audio and download it.  Anything you say on a radio is public knowledge.  There are some laws regarding cell phones that try to make them more private.  The cops in my area have gone to encrypting their radio traffic so you can't listen to them on a scanner anymore.  I can listen to aircraft radio traffic on my computer and do that fairly often while I'm at home working on a hobby project.  Me being an old 'boomer' I just used AI.  In this case Copilot on my Apple iPhone and asked for the tower audio in question.  The iPhone app responded in seconds and produced what I asked for.  There are many other audio sources as well.  There are actually people who have scanners who listen to the local airport traffic and record what they hear.  If the recordings become historical then they will be placed on a website and then anyone can listen to the radio traffic at a later date.

[DuncanDoenitz]

He, She, They, It.  Does it matter? 

Only if you're a bigot I suppose. 

(Close Enough).