Re: Trump
« Reply #3900 on: May 31, 2019, 10:33:15 AM »
I read the article quite comprehensively, and you're really not contradicting me at all, only substituting your own unflattering terms in place of mine.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/446136-professor-who-has-correctly-predicted-nine-presidential-elections-says

oh no
"...a lack of foreign policy success..."

Tells me the author is deranged...

Trump scores well in terms of foreign policy, unless you are a huge fan of meaningless, unjustified wars.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3901 on: May 31, 2019, 01:37:56 PM »
Trump scores well in terms of foreign policy, unless you are a huge fan of meaningless, unjustified wars.

Not starting wars is a foreign policy score?
Give it time, Bush Jr was in office a couple of years before he started the big meaningless Iraq war.

Trump has disrupted our trade relationships weakening us economically. He disrupted our strategic alliances weakening us strategically. These are things the Russians want. They want us spending billions on a useless wall while they deploy new underwater drone technology capable of sneaking a 2 megaton (maybe even one of the big 100 megaton) warhead right up to our beach to wipe out a city with a radioactive tsunami.

By the way, one of the things that has kept our planet safe for decades is the fact that the Russians and Chinese hate each other. Now, under Trump's watch their holding joint military maneuvers. With Russian conventional/nuclear forces, China's cyber forces and Trumps bumbling, the U.S. is a sitting duck.

Hear me now and believe me later, Russia will make another power move in Europe before Trump leaves.

Dennis Rodman made more progress with North Korea than Trump did.
Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3902 on: May 31, 2019, 03:59:18 PM »
I read the article quite comprehensively, and you're really not contradicting me at all, only substituting your own unflattering terms in place of mine.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/446136-professor-who-has-correctly-predicted-nine-presidential-elections-says

oh no
"...a lack of foreign policy success..."

Tells me the author is deranged...

Trump scores well in terms of foreign policy, unless you are a huge fan of meaningless, unjustified wars.
Does that include meaningless, unjustified trade wars?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3903 on: May 31, 2019, 04:22:22 PM »
China has been, is currently, and likely will be, an enemy state. It's a matter of when, not if, China invades Taiwan. That they currently have not already done so is simply because they understand they are not powerful enough yet; a relieving, but also threatening, notion. Nations such as Russia and China are dictatorships which continue to present themselves as passive enemies to the US and have economically attacked us for decades. To continue to allow the Chinese economy to grow at its current pace is not only morally bankrupt, but foolishly throwing our own future away.

If those with the foresight to deal with China right now, today, do not do so, then those without such foresight will loathe the geopolitical climate they're handed in 2040.

Re: Trump
« Reply #3904 on: May 31, 2019, 06:24:57 PM »
China has been, is currently, and likely will be, an enemy state. It's a matter of when, not if, China invades Taiwan. That they currently have not already done so is simply because they understand they are not powerful enough yet; a relieving, but also threatening, notion. Nations such as Russia and China are dictatorships which continue to present themselves as passive enemies to the US and have economically attacked us for decades. To continue to allow the Chinese economy to grow at its current pace is not only morally bankrupt, but foolishly throwing our own future away.

If those with the foresight to deal with China right now, today, do not do so, then those without such foresight will loathe the geopolitical climate they're handed in 2040.

Yeah but China depends on other nations alot.  No matter how powerful they are, they'll need those markets.



In other news...

Remember that 1 Billion dollar gofundme for the wall?

He built it.  Well, some anyway.

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/31/728332148/privately-funded-border-wall-near-completion-in-new-mexico


And I'm ok with it.  Privately funded, got all the paperwork in order.  Go for it. 

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Offline WellRoundedIndividual

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3905 on: May 31, 2019, 07:03:15 PM »
I heard a mayor or something was attempting to block it? Or was this another privately funded section?
BobLawBlah.

Re: Trump
« Reply #3906 on: May 31, 2019, 07:10:56 PM »
I heard a mayor or something was attempting to block it? Or was this another privately funded section?

Read the article.

He did due to the speed of it, he didn't know if all the right permits were in place.  He then allowed it shortly after.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3907 on: May 31, 2019, 08:14:09 PM »
China has been, is currently, and likely will be, an enemy state. It's a matter of when, not if, China invades Taiwan. That they currently have not already done so is simply because they understand they are not powerful enough yet; a relieving, but also threatening, notion. Nations such as Russia and China are dictatorships which continue to present themselves as passive enemies to the US and have economically attacked us for decades. To continue to allow the Chinese economy to grow at its current pace is not only morally bankrupt, but foolishly throwing our own future away.

If those with the foresight to deal with China right now, today, do not do so, then those without such foresight will loathe the geopolitical climate they're handed in 2040.

Yeah but China depends on other nations alot.  No matter how powerful they are, they'll need those markets.

Which is precisely why they're buying up enormous portions of Africa: to reduce their reliance on Western markets. You're thinking about the now, not the future. China is behaving kindly for now as they do not have the upper hand. The moment the Chinese gain a significant upper hand will be the very same moment a new world war begins. A war that is functionally impossible for the West to win. Damaging China's economic power right now is key to preventing that scenario, since right now it's the only weapon we have and it's the only one that has even a chance of ensuring our own survival.

Re: Trump
« Reply #3908 on: May 31, 2019, 09:44:43 PM »
China has been, is currently, and likely will be, an enemy state. It's a matter of when, not if, China invades Taiwan. That they currently have not already done so is simply because they understand they are not powerful enough yet; a relieving, but also threatening, notion. Nations such as Russia and China are dictatorships which continue to present themselves as passive enemies to the US and have economically attacked us for decades. To continue to allow the Chinese economy to grow at its current pace is not only morally bankrupt, but foolishly throwing our own future away.

If those with the foresight to deal with China right now, today, do not do so, then those without such foresight will loathe the geopolitical climate they're handed in 2040.

Yeah but China depends on other nations alot.  No matter how powerful they are, they'll need those markets.

Which is precisely why they're buying up enormous portions of Africa: to reduce their reliance on Western markets. You're thinking about the now, not the future. China is behaving kindly for now as they do not have the upper hand. The moment the Chinese gain a significant upper hand will be the very same moment a new world war begins. A war that is functionally impossible for the West to win. Damaging China's economic power right now is key to preventing that scenario, since right now it's the only weapon we have and it's the only one that has even a chance of ensuring our own survival.

Here's my issue with this line of thinking: It applies to almost anyone.

"America relies on us but the moment they have full manufacturing capability, they can launch a bloody war to obliterate us, like they've done to so many others.  We must not let them!"
Yes, China is oppressive to their people.  Not full on "murder the group we don't like"(with some exceptions) but certainly "1984" ish.

But all we do by doing this is hurt the people who don't give a shit and give them one more reason to not like us.  This is the equivilent of breaking someone's hand because you think they'll steal from you.  Effective in the short term but it's only going to brew hatred in the long run.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3909 on: May 31, 2019, 11:39:51 PM »
Here's my issue with this line of thinking: It applies to almost anyone.

How many enormous, economically and militarily powerful dictatorships can you name in the world, Dave? Saying it applies to anyone makes no sense at all.

"America relies on us but the moment they have full manufacturing capability, they can launch a bloody war to obliterate us, like they've done to so many others.  We must not let them!"
Yes, China is oppressive to their people.  Not full on "murder the group we don't like"(with some exceptions) but certainly "1984" ish.

Calling the Chinese government "oppressive" is putting it lightly. They've gathered Uighurs into concentration camps for systematic control and extermination. They continue to deny basic rights to Tibet and its people. They ran people over with tanks until their bodies were turned to a mild paste. Their internet controls and 'social credit score' make 1984 look tame by comparison.

But all we do by doing this is hurt the people who don't give a shit and give them one more reason to not like us.  This is the equivilent of breaking someone's hand because you think they'll steal from you.  Effective in the short term but it's only going to brew hatred in the long run.

It's not even remotely like that. China is a people who not only have seen the West historically always hating them, but also seen us help the very country that invaded them, raped their people and destroyed their homes only a century ago. Additionally, to China, the mere existence of Taiwan and the continued Western support of it as a nation is an insult (hence why even calling it Taiwan is considered an insult to the Chinese). The Chinese have spent the past decades building up their military, creating outposts in the South China Sea. Building entire islands out of concrete and turning them into military bases.

This is like having a neighbor who hates you, has hated you for hundreds of years, continues to hate you, swats at you any time you say anything he doesn't like, and continues to stockpile weapons. The moment China becomes powerful enough to defeat a conventional US military is the same moment the West says goodbye to control of the South China Sea. China is the antithesis of nearly all Western values. It's like having the Fourth Reich not only exist, but be your top trading partner. It is boggling to the mind that there are those who not only defend China as a country, but defend an ongoing 'positive' relationship with it. It's a caged, rabid dog that if fed enough by the West will kill us as swiftly as it can.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 11:42:54 PM by Rushy »

Re: Trump
« Reply #3910 on: June 01, 2019, 03:09:26 AM »
Then why not just nuke em?  Exterminate every Chinese man, woman, and child?  Find those filthy American hating Chinamen living in the USA and shoot em?  Because clearly everyone there hates the west....


This BS is circular.  You hate us, we hate you, you hate us back etc... Until one of us is dead or we stop being dicks to eachother.  And I guarentee you that most of their population doesn't give a shit about Taiwan, Tibet, or America.  All they want is to just live their lives in peace.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3911 on: June 01, 2019, 09:30:28 AM »
Then why not just nuke em?  Exterminate every Chinese man, woman, and child?  Find those filthy American hating Chinamen living in the USA and shoot em?  Because clearly everyone there hates the west....
So, first of all, what the actual fuck?

Moving on - the Chinese government is not even remotely representative of all Chinese people, much like the Third Reich was not the same as all Germans. That's just one of the reasons why mindlessly murdering civilians is generally frowned upon.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #3912 on: June 01, 2019, 12:43:45 PM »
Then why not just nuke em?  Exterminate every Chinese man, woman, and child?  Find those filthy American hating Chinamen living in the USA and shoot em?  Because clearly everyone there hates the west....
So, first of all, what the actual fuck?

Moving on - the Chinese government is not even remotely representative of all Chinese people, much like the Third Reich was not the same as all Germans. That's just one of the reasons why mindlessly murdering civilians is generally frowned upon.

Then China is not a people who hates the west, just the government. 

Thus, making the people poor and the nation weak is not going to make them like us anymore, will it?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3913 on: June 01, 2019, 02:47:41 PM »
Then why not just nuke em?  Exterminate every Chinese man, woman, and child?  Find those filthy American hating Chinamen living in the USA and shoot em?  Because clearly everyone there hates the west....

That's an incredibly pointless question; not only is it morally reprehensible, China also has nuclear weapons and would retaliate with them. Regardless, I voice some support for political action against China and you jump straight to "just nuke em". I know you can put a bit more effort into this. Additionally, I didn't say everyone in China hates the West, but a very large portion do. At the very least, their government is militarily, economically and philosophically opposed to the West.

This BS is circular.  You hate us, we hate you, you hate us back etc... Until one of us is dead or we stop being dicks to eachother.  And I guarentee you that most of their population doesn't give a shit about Taiwan, Tibet, or America.  All they want is to just live their lives in peace.

Human beings across the planet value different things, ideas, and morals. Many of those things, ideas and morals are mutually exclusive. The only world in which we "just stop being dicks to each other" is one where everyone is a hive mind that agrees on everything at all times.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 02:51:09 PM by Rushy »

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3914 on: June 01, 2019, 03:21:29 PM »
Thus, making the people poor and the nation weak is not going to make them like us anymore, will it?
Whether or not the people like us is no concern. Whether or not their government fucks us over is.
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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3915 on: June 02, 2019, 03:40:08 PM »
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Re: Trump
« Reply #3916 on: June 02, 2019, 04:25:32 PM »
Then why not just nuke em?  Exterminate every Chinese man, woman, and child?  Find those filthy American hating Chinamen living in the USA and shoot em?  Because clearly everyone there hates the west....

That's an incredibly pointless question; not only is it morally reprehensible, China also has nuclear weapons and would retaliate with them. Regardless, I voice some support for political action against China and you jump straight to "just nuke em". I know you can put a bit more effort into this. Additionally, I didn't say everyone in China hates the West, but a very large portion do. At the very least, their government is militarily, economically and philosophically opposed to the West.
And why is that?  Why do they hate the West?  Is it because we're evil?  Because they are and we're good?  Because they were told to?
And how will any sanctions change that opinion?

Quote
This BS is circular.  You hate us, we hate you, you hate us back etc... Until one of us is dead or we stop being dicks to eachother.  And I guarentee you that most of their population doesn't give a shit about Taiwan, Tibet, or America.  All they want is to just live their lives in peace.

Human beings across the planet value different things, ideas, and morals. Many of those things, ideas and morals are mutually exclusive. The only world in which we "just stop being dicks to each other" is one where everyone is a hive mind that agrees on everything at all times.
I disagree.  Most of the basics of pretty much every society is the same.  "Work hard, care for your family, don't harm others".
We all want the same things, we just have different ways of getting it.   


Thus, making the people poor and the nation weak is not going to make them like us anymore, will it?
Whether or not the people like us is no concern. Whether or not their government fucks us over is.
They will always fuck over people they hate.  It's kinda implied with the definition.

And last I checked, economic sanctions or bans or what-not has never made an enemy friendly.  The best way to do that is to invade, conquer it, then have them setup a new government, pay for rebuilding, and walk away.  Like we did with Germany, Japan, and the confederacy.

Or we make them rich and prosperous while being dependant on us.

Re: Trump
« Reply #3917 on: June 02, 2019, 04:27:03 PM »
https://www.thewrap.com/trump-campaign-meghan-markle-nasty/

This is great.

This is actually a test to see how far they can go with their base.
If they say one thing then literally disprove themselves with their own evidence and still get support....
They know they can do anything.  Absolutely anything, and get away with it.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #3918 on: June 02, 2019, 08:21:35 PM »
They will always fuck over people they hate.  It's kinda implied with the definition.
No - the implication of your assumptions is that they will want to fuck us over. That's very different from being able to do so.

And last I checked, economic sanctions or bans or what-not has never made an enemy friendly.
Indeed - that's quite obviously not the goal.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #3919 on: June 03, 2019, 10:11:41 AM »
Trump scores well in terms of foreign policy, unless you are a huge fan of meaningless, unjustified wars.

Not starting wars is a foreign policy score?
Give it time, Bush Jr was in office a couple of years before he started the big meaningless Iraq war.

Trump has disrupted our trade relationships weakening us economically.
The economy, last I checked, is still on a roll.
He disrupted our strategic alliances weakening us strategically.
Oh please...Come on Kramer...

Not even one defined instance from you to back that up.
These are things the Russians want. They want us spending billions on a useless wall while they deploy new underwater drone technology capable of sneaking a 2 megaton (maybe even one of the big 100 megaton) warhead right up to our beach to wipe out a city with a radioactive tsunami.
Last I checked every single weapon possessed by every "big ticket" military power resembles every other weapon across the board...nobody owns anything unique...

By the way, one of the things that has kept our planet safe for decades is the fact that the Russians and Chinese hate each other. Now, under Trump's watch their holding joint military maneuvers. With Russian conventional/nuclear forces, China's cyber forces and Trumps bumbling, the U.S. is a sitting duck.
Not even close.
Hear me now and believe me later, Russia will make another power move in Europe before Trump leaves.
So? Let the Europeans take of the Europeans...
Dennis Rodman made more progress with North Korea than Trump did.
LOL!