Re: Trump
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2016, 01:40:32 AM »
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2016/12/inside-the-hacked-u-s-election/

easily the most reasonable thing i've read about the russian hacking shit.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2016, 01:42:55 AM »
No, no, FES has already decided that all this Russian hacking news is a hoax dreamed up by the Washington Post and willingly abetted by the rest of the media aimed at delegitimizing Trump's victory.  Keep up.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 07:19:40 PM by George »

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: Trump
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2016, 08:06:07 AM »
No, no, FES has already decided that all this Russian hacking news is a hoax dreamed up by the Washington Post and willingly abetted by the rest of the media aimed at delegitimizing Trump's victory.  Keep up.

It's real, but "hacking" is a bit of a stretch. Podesta (and Hillary's IT team) was just a big dumbhead and fell for a phishing email. It appears to be a simple case of Darwinism.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 08:08:24 AM by Hollocron »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2016, 12:31:39 PM »
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/311118-kuwait-embassy-cancels-major-event-at-four-seasons-to-switch-to-trumps-dc-hotel

It's from The Hill so take it with a grain of salt but...

If this is true, it's pretty damn obvious why Trump ran for president: To promote his business.  This makes him, quite possibly, the smartest or dumbest business man ever.  And I really don't know which one.  I mean, on the plus side, he can (pressure) to get laws changed in almost any country to favor his businesses, hotels, and golf courses.  On the downside, any slip ups or insults he throws hurts his business overall.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2016, 01:05:11 PM »
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/311118-kuwait-embassy-cancels-major-event-at-four-seasons-to-switch-to-trumps-dc-hotel

It's from The Hill so take it with a grain of salt but...

If this is true, it's pretty damn obvious why Trump ran for president: To promote his business.  This makes him, quite possibly, the smartest or dumbest business man ever.  And I really don't know which one.  I mean, on the plus side, he can (pressure) to get laws changed in almost any country to favor his businesses, hotels, and golf courses.  On the downside, any slip ups or insults he throws hurts his business overall.
Um yeah, that's why most news sites have been talking about all the conflict of interests and how he stupid it is that he won't turn over his businesses to a blind trust.
I mean, even if it's his kids running the show - they're still the president's kids and will have sway just with that.

I foresee him being impeached over something like this honestly.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2016, 01:36:33 PM »
The laws concerning conflict of interest do not prohibit this sort of behavior for the president unless they can be linked to favoritism and so considered a bribe.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2016, 02:43:10 PM »
No, no, FES has already decided that all this Russian hacking news is a hoax dreamed up by the Washington Post and willingly abetted by the rest of the media aimed at delegitimizing Trump's victory.  Keep up.

fwiw i think skepticism of these hacking claims is very reasonable (i'm guessing you do as well), i just don't get how such a large segment of the pop gets to adamant denial from healthy skepticism.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #67 on: December 20, 2016, 04:12:44 PM »
fwiw i think skepticism of these hacking claims is very reasonable (i'm guessing you do as well), i just don't get how such a large segment of the pop gets to adamant denial from healthy skepticism.
As far as I'm concerned, no evidence has been presented to date. I'm not immediately dismissing CIA's and FBI's accounts, but I do it suspicious that so little detail has been presented for these accusations.

I'm happy to admit that I might be missing something obvious, but if the evidence is as sparse as I think it is, why would we assume that the claim is true?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 04:16:21 PM by SexWarrior »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2016, 05:02:28 PM »
No, no, FES has already decided that all this Russian hacking news is a hoax dreamed up by the Washington Post and willingly abetted by the rest of the media aimed at delegitimizing Trump's victory.  Keep up.

fwiw i think skepticism of these hacking claims is very reasonable (i'm guessing you do as well), i just don't get how such a large segment of the pop gets to adamant denial from healthy skepticism.

How do you get adamant denial from healthy skepticism?

I don't believe there is any evidence that Russia directed this particular hack. I haven't seen it. It's not like I'm denying evidence that is obviously there. There just hasn't been any. Just a general, "Trust us, we're the CIA!" I wonder how many people have fell for that in the past 60 years lol.

Re: Trump
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2016, 05:44:28 PM »
I'm happy to admit that I might be missing something obvious, but if the evidence is as sparse as I think it is, why would we assume that the claim is true?

i would agree that it's inappropriate to assume that the claims are true.  skepticism is always good policy.  but i also don't think it's appropriate to dismiss them out of hand.  the cia and fbi both have enough credibility for me to believe that their assessments aren't manufactured.  i know you yourself aren't saying that it is, i'm just referring to the ever-growing meme that the cia is too incompetent, or too political, to get this right. 

to my last check, basically everything we know about these reports comes from an anonymous source who hadn't him/herself seen the document, so i definitely think skepticism is warranted.

As far as I'm concerned, no evidence has been presented to date. I'm not immediately dismissing CIA's and FBI's accounts, but I do it suspicious that so little detail has been presented for these accusations.

personally i find it frustrating, but not suspicious or even surprising.  i think the cia in particular just doesn't see that as its job.

How do you get adamant denial from healthy skepticism?

i'm speaking in generalities.  my twitter feed is blowing up daily with "lol cia just lies to you don't believe this shit."
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 06:21:29 PM by garygreen »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2016, 08:08:34 PM »
I'm just saying there is nothing for me to deny. If there was evidence I could ignore, I'd like the opportunity. But as of right now I'm just in the skeptical phase.

And I'm not the only one.

https://m.facebook.com/justinamash/photos/a.173968155975932.31945.173604349345646/1265234083515995/?type=3&permPage=1

Representatives Justin Amash and Walter Jones just sent this letter to the president.

Re: Trump
« Reply #71 on: December 20, 2016, 11:26:36 PM »
It's too bad that same skepticism isn't extended to Pizzagate. :|

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Re: Trump
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2016, 12:27:47 PM »
It's too bad that same skepticism isn't extended to Pizzagate. :|

Isn't it?

Re: Trump
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2016, 04:26:51 PM »
It's too bad that same skepticism isn't extended to Pizzagate. :|

Isn't it?

Considering a vast majority of leaks in the past 10 years have confirmed my suspicions that the American public is often manipulated, misled, and misinformed to support the agenda of a select few, I believe my being incredulous is justified. So when I'm told something is fake news and a non-story by these very same people, I reserve my right to be skeptical.

I don't know how anyone could look at the mainstream media objectively and not come to the conclusion that it is nothing more than the propaganda arm of the US Government and by extension, the political and corporate elite that constitute the government.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2016, 04:56:27 PM »
It's too bad that same skepticism isn't extended to Pizzagate. :|

Isn't it?

Considering a vast majority of leaks in the past 10 years have confirmed my suspicions that the American public is often manipulated, misled, and misinformed to support the agenda of a select few, I believe my being incredulous is justified. So when I'm told something is fake news and a non-story by these very same people, I reserve my right to be skeptical.

I don't know how anyone could look at the mainstream media objectively and not come to the conclusion that it is nothing more than the propaganda arm of the US Government and by extension, the political and corporate elite that constitute the government.

Just because you don't believe the mainstream doesn't mean you have to believe "alternative media".  Especially when the story is as badly constituted as pizzagate.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #75 on: December 21, 2016, 05:59:11 PM »
all you really need to know about pizzagate is that comet pizza is on connecticut avenue.  it's like claiming that podesta was running a child slavery ring out of the sbarros on times square.  it's literally unbelievable without direct evidence of the crime.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #76 on: December 21, 2016, 06:09:38 PM »
all you really need to know about pizzagate is that comet pizza is on connecticut avenue.  it's like claiming that podesta was running a child slavery ring out of the sbarros on times square.  it's literally unbelievable without direct evidence of the crime.

Well, as much as I'd like to have faith in humanity, as a human, I won't allow my desire for something to be untrue to completely dismiss the possibility. Because something is implausible, or just so sick you don't want to believe it, doesn't mean it's impossible.

I like to believe I approached the story with the same amount of skepticism I would approach any story, though I can't deny that I already believe these people to be lying, corrupt sociopaths possible of anything. There is good reason for me to feel that way, mind you.

When it comes to how much I'd like this story investigated, it's definitely somewhere between outright dismissal and witch hunt.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #77 on: December 21, 2016, 07:07:41 PM »
all you really need to know about pizzagate is that comet pizza is on connecticut avenue.  it's like claiming that podesta was running a child slavery ring out of the sbarros on times square.  it's literally unbelievable without direct evidence of the crime.

Well, as much as I'd like to have faith in humanity, as a human, I won't allow my desire for something to be untrue to completely dismiss the possibility. Because something is implausible, or just so sick you don't want to believe it, doesn't mean it's impossible.

I like to believe I approached the story with the same amount of skepticism I would approach any story, though I can't deny that I already believe these people to be lying, corrupt sociopaths possible of anything. There is good reason for me to feel that way, mind you.

When it comes to how much I'd like this story investigated, it's definitely somewhere between outright dismissal and witch hunt.
I think he means it's unbelievable that such a public and busy place would never have anyone noticing something going on.  It's not like it's a private home, it's a public location where everyone from small children to teenagers to grumpy adults, cops, politicians, generals, FBI, CIA, etc... all probably visit at some point.  Not to mention the tourists.  Add to it the droves of employees that come and go and unless you only operate at 2am with no lights anywhere near the place, not being seen going in would be very very difficult.  Plus, all the employees would be a massive security risk.

I mean, it's one of the worst place to have a child sex ring.  Especially since it doesn't have a basement.

Re: Trump
« Reply #78 on: December 21, 2016, 07:58:01 PM »
I don't for one second think that comet pizza is the center of the entire operation. In fact, I think the absurdity of it being labeled as such works in the favor of those who would perpetrate it. As in any conspiratorial operation, this would just be one part of it. 

And it just happens to be the owner is involved in it in a tangible way. The connections exist, and the weirdness of posting a photo with an infant boy, tethered in beads to a grown man with the caption of #chickenlovers doesn't exactly calm the suspicions.

Re: Trump
« Reply #79 on: December 21, 2016, 09:20:55 PM »
I don't for one second think that comet pizza is the center of the entire operation. In fact, I think the absurdity of it being labeled as such works in the favor of those who would perpetrate it. As in any conspiratorial operation, this would just be one part of it. 

And it just happens to be the owner is involved in it in a tangible way. The connections exist, and the weirdness of posting a photo with an infant boy, tethered in beads to a grown man with the caption of #chickenlovers doesn't exactly calm the suspicions.

"Tethered"