totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #5880 on: July 09, 2020, 10:09:26 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/entertainment/kanye-trump-coronavirus-forbes/index.html

Looks like somebody recognized that supporting Trump was costing him street cred and is trying to get it back.

Meanwhile I hope he does run for president. Why would anybody presume he'll take votes away from Biden when he aligned himself with Trump for so long? Please run, Kanye!

People forget. Just like they forgot how Trump earlier this year did everything he could to downplay and blow off the coronavirus outbreak, leading to his approval ratings bizarrely going up once he started going through the motions of taking it seriously.

When did this happen? I just checked to make sure I wasn't seriously missing something, but no, Trump's approval rating is still holding under 40%. His net approval is still underwater by double digits. Polls are still predicting a sweeping Democratic win. The media is still citing his handling of the coronavirus as part of the reason for his current dismal ratings.

If it's just the temporary "rally round the flag" effect you're referring to, well that really did die quickly didn't it? Indeed it's a perfectly normal part of politics that Trump couldn't even take advantage of for more than a couple weeks before exposing himself as a fraud. In my view it does not support the notion that people just forgot, it mainly highlights how desperate we were for a real leader in a time of crisis, and how quickly we subsequently realized we don't actually have one.
Are you actually of the belief that most Americans are desperate to be led?

Better yet, let us just expand the question to all people.

How are you defining "being led"? I feel like you're using a completely different context from the one I intended and I want to make sure I understand what you mean before I answer.
It's not a trick question Roundy, honest.

You used the word "desperate," as an adjective in describing these people ( actually including yourself in that group by stating "we"),  so I was asking for a vision of leadership that could alleviate this desperation.

Sometimes questions are asked in order for the other person to provide further context.

Although i will offer I don't happen to think Americans are or ever have been the type of people desperate for leadership.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 10:27:53 PM by totallackey »

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5881 on: July 10, 2020, 05:12:12 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/entertainment/kanye-trump-coronavirus-forbes/index.html

Looks like somebody recognized that supporting Trump was costing him street cred and is trying to get it back.

Meanwhile I hope he does run for president. Why would anybody presume he'll take votes away from Biden when he aligned himself with Trump for so long? Please run, Kanye!

People forget. Just like they forgot how Trump earlier this year did everything he could to downplay and blow off the coronavirus outbreak, leading to his approval ratings bizarrely going up once he started going through the motions of taking it seriously.

When did this happen? I just checked to make sure I wasn't seriously missing something, but no, Trump's approval rating is still holding under 40%. His net approval is still underwater by double digits. Polls are still predicting a sweeping Democratic win. The media is still citing his handling of the coronavirus as part of the reason for his current dismal ratings.

If it's just the temporary "rally round the flag" effect you're referring to, well that really did die quickly didn't it? Indeed it's a perfectly normal part of politics that Trump couldn't even take advantage of for more than a couple weeks before exposing himself as a fraud. In my view it does not support the notion that people just forgot, it mainly highlights how desperate we were for a real leader in a time of crisis, and how quickly we subsequently realized we don't actually have one.
Are you actually of the belief that most Americans are desperate to be led?

Better yet, let us just expand the question to all people.

How are you defining "being led"? I feel like you're using a completely different context from the one I intended and I want to make sure I understand what you mean before I answer.
It's not a trick question Roundy, honest.

You used the word "desperate," as an adjective in describing these people ( actually including yourself in that group by stating "we"),  so I was asking for a vision of leadership that could alleviate this desperation.

Sometimes questions are asked in order for the other person to provide further context.

Although i will offer I don't happen to think Americans are or ever have been the type of people desperate for leadership.

To say we're "desperate to be led" would surely be inaccurate. Most of us recognize that without leadership there would be no society, and without society we would have no reasonable expectation of security, or of being treated fairly. But to say we're "desperate" for it would be silly, because we've always had it and see no reason to think that will change.

I didn't say that most Americans are desperate to be led. I said that in a time of crisis they are desperate for leadership. If I wasn't clear enough, I thought it would be understood that I was talking about adequate, competent leadership. Because obviously, for good or bad, Trump is our leader.

It's whether he's a competent leader that's the issue.

What kind of leadership can alleviate the situation? The kind that treats a crisis seriously from the start, rather than waiting until he thinks it's politically advantageous to do so. Someone who is honest about the severity of the problem before the severity is something that's hitting us all on the heads. Someone willing to take adequate actions to minimize the problem, rather than taking stands and doing things that will only make things worse.

Yes, I think Americans were desperate for that kind of leadership. The leadership we have spectacularly failed to provide it. And I think that the fact that the American people expected better from their leader is borne out by his slippage in public confidence, and subsequent slippage in the polls.
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totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #5882 on: July 10, 2020, 10:32:10 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/entertainment/kanye-trump-coronavirus-forbes/index.html

Looks like somebody recognized that supporting Trump was costing him street cred and is trying to get it back.

Meanwhile I hope he does run for president. Why would anybody presume he'll take votes away from Biden when he aligned himself with Trump for so long? Please run, Kanye!

People forget. Just like they forgot how Trump earlier this year did everything he could to downplay and blow off the coronavirus outbreak, leading to his approval ratings bizarrely going up once he started going through the motions of taking it seriously.

When did this happen? I just checked to make sure I wasn't seriously missing something, but no, Trump's approval rating is still holding under 40%. His net approval is still underwater by double digits. Polls are still predicting a sweeping Democratic win. The media is still citing his handling of the coronavirus as part of the reason for his current dismal ratings.

If it's just the temporary "rally round the flag" effect you're referring to, well that really did die quickly didn't it? Indeed it's a perfectly normal part of politics that Trump couldn't even take advantage of for more than a couple weeks before exposing himself as a fraud. In my view it does not support the notion that people just forgot, it mainly highlights how desperate we were for a real leader in a time of crisis, and how quickly we subsequently realized we don't actually have one.
Are you actually of the belief that most Americans are desperate to be led?

Better yet, let us just expand the question to all people.

How are you defining "being led"? I feel like you're using a completely different context from the one I intended and I want to make sure I understand what you mean before I answer.
It's not a trick question Roundy, honest.

You used the word "desperate," as an adjective in describing these people ( actually including yourself in that group by stating "we"),  so I was asking for a vision of leadership that could alleviate this desperation.

Sometimes questions are asked in order for the other person to provide further context.

Although i will offer I don't happen to think Americans are or ever have been the type of people desperate for leadership.

To say we're "desperate to be led" would surely be inaccurate. Most of us recognize that without leadership there would be no society, and without society we would have no reasonable expectation of security, or of being treated fairly. But to say we're "desperate" for it would be silly, because we've always had it and see no reason to think that will change.

I didn't say that most Americans are desperate to be led. I said that in a time of crisis they are desperate for leadership. If I wasn't clear enough, I thought it would be understood that I was talking about adequate, competent leadership. Because obviously, for good or bad, Trump is our leader.

It's whether he's a competent leader that's the issue.

What kind of leadership can alleviate the situation? The kind that treats a crisis seriously from the start, rather than waiting until he thinks it's politically advantageous to do so. Someone who is honest about the severity of the problem before the severity is something that's hitting us all on the heads. Someone willing to take adequate actions to minimize the problem, rather than taking stands and doing things that will only make things worse.

Yes, I think Americans were desperate for that kind of leadership. The leadership we have spectacularly failed to provide it. And I think that the fact that the American people expected better from their leader is borne out by his slippage in public confidence, and subsequent slippage in the polls.
Okay, thanks for answering.

If I understand your answer correctly, you just want somebody different in the White House, with no guarantee the methods would be any better.

Just change for change sake.

Directionless leadership.

Cool.

Re: Trump
« Reply #5883 on: July 10, 2020, 10:38:28 AM »
If I understand your answer correctly, you just want somebody different in the White House, with no guarantee the methods would be any better.

Just change for change sake.

It seems pretty clear that what he's saying is that while a change might not be better it's pretty unlikely to be worse.
Trump has shown that he isn't a leader in a time of crisis. His response to this virus has been to say it'll all go away, say they've got it under control and then, as the bodies pile up, constantly repeat what a great job he's doing.

In a time like this you need a strong, competent leader. You do not have one. So why would you reelect him?
The next person might not be better but Trump has proven his incompetence* so why stick with that for 4 more years.


*I suspect this bit you will dispute in which case fine, if you want more of the same then go nuts. Lots of people do not. Whether enough do not, I guess we'll see round election time.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #5884 on: July 10, 2020, 10:48:57 AM »
If I understand your answer correctly, you just want somebody different in the White House, with no guarantee the methods would be any better.

Just change for change sake.

It seems pretty clear that what he's saying is that while a change might not be better it's pretty unlikely to be worse.
I do not know how you could possibly claim a find of this type of clarity in his response.
Trump has shown that he isn't a leader in a time of crisis. His response to this virus has been to say it'll all go away, say they've got it under control and then, as the bodies pile up, constantly repeat what a great job he's doing.
Funny how you omitted the nationwide lock down (which never did work, but since you argue they do, you are in favor of Trump's response, yet somehow decry the death toll all the same, meaning you didn't like the lock down). Funny how you didn't mention the travel ban instituted almost immediately, yet derided as RACIST, then a month afterwards derided by many as saying it didn't happen soon enough.
In a time like this you need a strong, competent leader. You do not have one. So why would you reelect him?
The next person might not be better but Trump has proven his incompetence* so why stick with that for 4 more years.


*I suspect this bit you will dispute in which case fine, if you want more of the same then go nuts. Lots of people do not. Whether enough do not, I guess we'll see round election time.
Actually, I think it is rather obvious Trump is strong enough.

I also think he is a reality TV star in reality TV world, where participation stars somehow = performance.

I also know Biden is demented and has zero clue as to what is going to be served for breakfast and even less a clue as to what it was he had upon finishing it.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 11:06:16 AM by totallackey »

Re: Trump
« Reply #5885 on: July 10, 2020, 11:21:31 AM »
Funny how you omitted the nationwide lock down (which never did work, but since you argue they do, you are in favor of Trump's response, yet somehow decry the death toll all the same, meaning you didn't like the lock down). Funny how you didn't mention the travel ban instituted almost immediately, yet derided as RACIST, then a month afterwards derided by many as saying it didn't happen soon enough.
I'm not saying every single thing he's done is wrong, some of the things you mention yes, those were the right things. But there's been other failings in terms of testing, inconsistent approaches in different states, the way he's dealt with criticism or scrutiny in the briefings.
We can argue back and forth about what he's got right and wrong, what it all adds up to is you have the highest infection rate in the world, the highest death toll in the world and even if you adjust for population you're well in the top 10 of "worst countries".
As a country you have failed to deal with this well. The buck stops with Trump.

Quote
I also know Biden is demented and has zero clue as to what is going to be served for breakfast and even less a clue as to what it was he had upon finishing it.

Except that's not true, is it? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're using hyperbole for comedy effect and let's agree that there are questions about Biden's abilities. But it would be very easy to cut together clips of Trump rambling nonsensically. He does it a lot.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #5886 on: July 10, 2020, 11:32:32 AM »
Funny how you omitted the nationwide lock down (which never did work, but since you argue they do, you are in favor of Trump's response, yet somehow decry the death toll all the same, meaning you didn't like the lock down). Funny how you didn't mention the travel ban instituted almost immediately, yet derided as RACIST, then a month afterwards derided by many as saying it didn't happen soon enough.
I'm not saying every single thing he's done is wrong, some of the things you mention yes, those were the right things. But there's been other failings in terms of testing, inconsistent approaches in different states, the way he's dealt with criticism or scrutiny in the briefings.
We can argue back and forth about what he's got right and wrong, what it all adds up to is you have the highest infection rate in the world, the highest death toll in the world and even if you adjust for population you're well in the top 10 of "worst countries".
As a country you have failed to deal with this well. The buck stops with Trump.
Well, if the buck truly did stop with Trump, then what gives birth to the concept of "differences in the Trump administration's response to...?" I mean, we are back to the fact Trump instituted the lock down and the travel ban, and yet the "individual state have the right to implement their own policies despite the federal government."

I do not think you have a clue about the structure of government in the United States and are ill-qualified to provide any sort of rational and reasoned commentary on any of these issues.

You have an opinion and that is fine, but it is apparent is lacking any rational base for formulation.
Quote
I also know Biden is demented and has zero clue as to what is going to be served for breakfast and even less a clue as to what it was he had upon finishing it.

Except that's not true, is it?
No doubt it is true.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're using hyperbole for comedy effect and let's agree that there are questions about Biden's abilities. But it would be very easy to cut together clips of Trump rambling nonsensically. He does it a lot.
So you too are in the camp for change simply because...

No real plan.

That's cool.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 11:43:24 AM by totallackey »

Re: Trump
« Reply #5887 on: July 10, 2020, 11:42:16 AM »
So you too are in the camp for change simply because...
...because I think Biden would do better than Trump has and I believe the focus on his cognitive abilities by cutting together clips of him stumbling over words adds nothing to the debate.
And, for balance, the same has happened to Trump - "oh look at the way he drinks water, look at how he's walking down a ramp".
I don't care about those things, look at the things they actually do and say.
Trump has demonstrably failed to lead your country through this crisis in a competent way, as Boris has here.
That isn't my opinion, I just need to look at the numbers to see it's true.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

totallackey

Re: Trump
« Reply #5888 on: July 10, 2020, 11:47:25 AM »
So you too are in the camp for change simply because...
...because I think Biden would do better than Trump has and I believe the focus on his cognitive abilities by cutting together clips of him stumbling over words adds nothing to the debate.
And, for balance, the same has happened to Trump - "oh look at the way he drinks water, look at how he's walking down a ramp".
I don't care about those things, look at the things they actually do and say.
Trump has demonstrably failed to lead your country through this crisis in a competent way, as Boris has here.
That isn't my opinion, I just need to look at the numbers to see it's true.
I have looked at the things they have said and I have looked the things they do.

I see Biden, with 40 years of service as an elected politician.

What has he accomplished?

Nothing, except to flip-flop.

Yeah, you have your opinion on the matter, but it is lacking any knowledge as to how the system of government actually operates in the United States and is clearly based on a single state mindset.

That is not what the United States of America is, so I think your opinion has no weight.

Don't worry though.

We won't be around long.

And you will get your one world government sooner rather than later.

And then you can take a knee to your rightful king in peace.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 12:06:28 PM by totallackey »

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5889 on: July 10, 2020, 11:49:52 PM »
Okay, thanks for answering.

If I understand your answer correctly, you just want somebody different in the White House, with no guarantee the methods would be any better.

Just change for change sake.

Directionless leadership.

Cool.

 ???

No, this was the rationale a lot of people had for voting Trump in. Remember? His complete lack of experience leading was somehow seen as a benefit.

Biden has 50 years of government experience. We know he can lead.

What a weird response from a Trump supporter.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 11:53:59 PM by Roundy »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5890 on: July 11, 2020, 12:39:44 AM »
If Biden wasn't already going to lose, this seals it.

"The biggest problem in astronomy is that when we look at something in the sky, we don’t know how far away it is" — Pauline Barmby, Ph.D., Professor of Astronomy

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Online honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5891 on: July 11, 2020, 02:53:27 AM »
I like how you're not even bothering to back that up, as if this policy is so self-evidently disastrous and unpopular that it doesn't need an explanation. In other news:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/politics/trump-stone-prison-clemency/index.html

It's better than trying to bully the DoJ into dropping the charges altogether, as Trump and Barr tried to do some months back, and are in currently in the process of doing so for Flynn, but this still a very cynical move, as all of Trump's high-profile pardons/commutations have been. Once he's out of office, I really do think we'll see a push for a constitutional amendment to limit some of the president's powers. Trump has shown us that we can no longer simply rely on the dignity and self-control of the person who's been elected to the office as a restraint. Or, to put it more accurately, we can no longer rely on the American people to not elect obviously amoral crooks who couldn't be trusted to run a hardware store responsibly, let alone the nation.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 12:18:56 AM by honk »
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Re: Trump
« Reply #5892 on: July 11, 2020, 07:34:05 AM »
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5893 on: July 11, 2020, 08:06:44 AM »
If Biden wasn't already going to lose, this seals it.


Why is this even legal?!

Holy shit!  Buying guns online makes it super easy to bypass all laws.  No license?  No problem.
12 years old?  Whose gonna know?

Geeze, its easier to get a gun than vote. 

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5894 on: July 11, 2020, 01:53:28 PM »
They gon' take our guns away!

Calm down Tom, you'll still be able to buy your AKs without any fuss at a gun show.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #5896 on: July 11, 2020, 04:38:54 PM »
They gon' take our guns away!

Calm down Tom, you'll still be able to buy your AKs without any fuss at a gun show.
Brits mostly cannot believe the attitude of most Americans to guns. Of course you shouldn’t be able to buy stuff like this online.
I remember Obama lamenting the fact that you can’t even have a debate about this sort of thing. The merest hint that just maybe there should be some control over guns and the response is a hysterical THEY’RE GOING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR GUNS!!!1!!1!

I mean, personally I think they probably should take away your guns. So many incidents show you can’t be trusted with them. But that’s never going to fly. But surely some level of sensible debate on the issue without the hysterical response above.
If you are making your claim without evidence then we can discard it without evidence.

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

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Offline timterroo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5897 on: July 11, 2020, 04:52:16 PM »
They gon' take our guns away!

Calm down Tom, you'll still be able to buy your AKs without any fuss at a gun show.
Brits mostly cannot believe the attitude of most Americans to guns. Of course you shouldn’t be able to buy stuff like this online.
I remember Obama lamenting the fact that you can’t even have a debate about this sort of thing. The merest hint that just maybe there should be some control over guns and the response is a hysterical THEY’RE GOING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR GUNS!!!1!!1!

I mean, personally I think they probably should take away your guns. So many incidents show you can’t be trusted with them. But that’s never going to fly. But surely some level of sensible debate on the issue without the hysterical response above.

I wholehearted believe in my right to bear arms. However, I am embarrassed by some Americans who tout their guns around and clearly do not know how to wield one.

Like this couple:

https://www.kmov.com/news/st-louis-couple-seen-pointing-guns-at-protestors/article_afbb1b2c-b98e-11ea-ba7e-b3452007bfc8.html

This is an example of someone who should not be allowed to own or possess a gun.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 05:04:46 PM by timterroo »
"noche te ipsum"

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5898 on: July 11, 2020, 07:45:24 PM »
If Biden wasn't already going to lose, this seals it.


Why is this even legal?!

Holy shit!  Buying guns online makes it super easy to bypass all laws.  No license?  No problem.
12 years old?  Whose gonna know?

Geeze, its easier to get a gun than vote.

Online gun sales have to go through a FFL dealer who still have to do the "Brady Bill" background check. I am not aware of any loophole that allows firearms to be shipped directly to someone. Preventing online sales would be an inconvenience at best, depending on the firearm one was looking to purchase. The gun show loophole still exists. Gun parts/kits are a bit of a different story that requires more nuance than I care to put into this comment.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 07:47:13 PM by junker »

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #5899 on: July 11, 2020, 08:17:46 PM »
If Biden wasn't already going to lose, this seals it.


Why is this even legal?!

Holy shit!  Buying guns online makes it super easy to bypass all laws.  No license?  No problem.
12 years old?  Whose gonna know?

Geeze, its easier to get a gun than vote.

Online gun sales have to go through a FFL dealer who still have to do the "Brady Bill" background check.

This is false, as I understand it. It's still possible in many states to buy a firearm through an auction or a private dealer online without having to go through a background check. Unless the law changed very recently online gun sales don't necessarily have to go through a FFL dealer.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 08:21:09 PM by Roundy »
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